Hopeless Diamond to HAVE BLUE: Lockheed XST Evolution

[alostbaron]

There have been changes in plans, and I've been asked to hang back. All I can say: I suspect if what being worked on comes to pass, you'll be like...

Sadly, you won't be tossing money *my* way, but still...

Sooo was this ever posted? I'm dying of curiosity now!

 

[gooberling]

As I understand it, Dick Scherrer asked Overholser for ideas on what shapes could have very low radar cross section, and Overholser suggested making the aircraft from flat plates. The design started without a way to calculate RCS with the general knowledge that flat plates have low RCS except when facing the radar.

ECHO was developed after the idea to make a faceted plane as Quellish suggested, but Overholser claims credit for the initial idea. He didn't draw a layout though.

Thanks! I'll look into this further, I definitely have some more work to do

 

[kmrumble]

I'm currently reading Ben Rich's memoir, and I've also started to read the book by Paul Crickmore. I haven't had the chance to look at those ones in particular yet, unfortunately, but I will look at those over Thanksgiving break!

Aronstein and Piccirillo's book is an excellent reference. I wouldn't recommend using Ben's memoir as a historical reference absent confirmation from other sources. The few things he addressed that I was familiar with were wildly inaccurate. As Jerry Baber once told me, "Ben's a good guy, but he never lets the facts get in the way of a good story."

 

[gooberling]

Aronstein and Piccirillo's book is an excellent reference. I wouldn't recommend using Ben's memoir as a historical reference absent confirmation from other sources. The few things he addressed that I was familiar with were wildly inaccurate. As Jerry Baber once told me, "Ben's a good guy, but he never lets the facts get in the way of a good story."

Thanks for giving me the heads-up on the memoir. I did get the feeling that there was a fair bit of storytelling involved, but I wasn't exactly sure how much was changed. Sadly, being able to afford the AIAA book doesn't seem to be in the cards for several weeks. Would you happen to know if the book by Paul Crickmore a reliable resource? Thanks

 

[kmrumble]

Thanks for giving me the heads-up on the memoir. I did get the feeling that there was a fair bit of storytelling involved, but I wasn't exactly sure how much was changed. Sadly, being able to afford the AIAA book doesn't seem to be in the cards for several weeks. Would you happen to know if the book by Paul Crickmore a reliable resource? Thanks

Yeah, it's an expensive book. I got it through an interlibrary loan, since you can't find it in most libraries. Unfortunately, I can't comment on the Crickmore book as I haven't read it. One great free resource is the collection of oral histories posted by Peter Westwick at the Huntington Library website as part of his Aerospace Oral History project. Some of this material wound up in his book "Stealth", but far from all. He interviewed Alan Brown, Sherm Mullin, and many others. Best of luck to you in your research.

 

[Sundog]

Just saw this post and here's what stood out to me. I'm sure you guys can fill in many of these blanks for me. I've tried looking for some but haven't found anything concrete.
1) High Pressure Engine? Was that their program for a ramjet that produces thrust under static conditions?
2) ASP? Is thus Have Blue or the F-117A?
3) High Speed Electric Propulsion?
4) Senior High I and Senior High II were confusing, but I gather based on the text that SHII was the 45,000lbs ATA (Can't remember if that's ATA-A or ATA-B) and SHI was the 90,000lbs unbuilt design?
5) Tacit Gold? Was that the stealthy cruise missile?
6) Senior Crown is obviously the SR-71, what was Senior Year? The TR-1?
7) Why did LM/ADP need an update on the F-100 engine back in the eighties?
8) Girlfriend = F117A and Boyfriend - F-117D (BSAX)?

Thanks.

 

[quellish]

Just saw this post and here's what stood out to me. I'm sure you guys can fill in many of these blanks for me. I've tried looking for some but haven't found anything concrete.
1) High Pressure Engine? Was that their program for a ramjet that produces thrust under static conditions?

High Pressure Ratio Engine - Garret engine, DARPA was pushing both Lockheed and Northrop to work with Garrett

2) ASP? Is thus Have Blue or the F-117A?

Sea Shadow

3) High Speed Electric Propulsion?

High Speed Electric Propulsion - Propulsion system for Sea Shadow (Garrett)

4) Senior High I and Senior High II were confusing, but I gather based on the text that SHII was the 45,000lbs ATA (Can't remember if that's ATA-A or ATA-B) and SHI was the 90,000lbs unbuilt design?

SENIOR HIGH I - SENIOR PROM

SENIOR HIGH II - ATA , later SENIOR TREND

A-3 - ATA (Early Lockheed studies, ATA-A and ATA-B)

SENIOR HIGH started out as just the ATCM, then became an umbrella program for other programs and the ATCM became SENIOR PROM/SENIOR HIGH I.

5) Tacit Gold? Was that the stealthy cruise missile?

Sea Shadow

6) Senior Crown is obviously the SR-71, what was Senior Year? The TR-1?

U-2 / TR-1

7) Why did LM/ADP need an update on the F-100 engine back in the eighties?

F-100 engine was being considered for ATA-B

8) Girlfriend = F117A and Boyfriend - F-117D (BSAX)?

Girlfriend - Sea Shadow

Boyfriend - Lockheed BSAX

 

[Sundog]

Thanks, I was getting confused about what was what, lol. Obviously.

 

[quellish]

Thanks, I was getting confused about what was what, lol. Obviously.

The references to Northrop and Hughes in the XST log are regarding a separate DARPA program to develop an LPI fire control system, intended to be used on ATA. Hughes has the radar while Northrop was working on the radome. The radar system was immature and dropped in favor of the FLIR/DLIR for what became SENIOR TREND.