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Hermeus COO: Hypersonic aircraft can help the US military overcome the ‘tyranny of distance’​


Alex Hollings | March 17, 2022

Atlanta-based aviation firm Hermeus has been working toward the development of the worlds’ first crewed reusable hypersonic passenger aircraft, and as you might imagine, a cost-effective Mach 5 jet could have far-reaching implications in the defense sector.

While today’s news may be dominated by discussions about hypersonic weapons, faster aircraft could allow the US military to cover greater distances in less time, which could be incredibly valuable for overcoming the dreaded tyranny of distance.

When stealth doesn’t cut it anymore, speed matters​

In an interview for our AirPower series on YouTube, Hermeus co-founder and Chief Operations officer Skyer Shuford explained why crewed hypersonic flight may help to make tactical aircraft more survivable in contested airspace, even as advanced anti-stealth radar systems continue to mature[...]

There’s historical precedent for the argument that speed can provide increased survivability. The legendary SR-71 Blackbird famously outran some 4,000 missiles fired at it throughout its tenure with the U.S. Air Force. Modern anti-air systems are more advanced than ever, but targeting a maneuverable aircraft moving at Mach 5 at high altitude would represent a massive challenge for even the most advanced systems in service today.

Shuford also explained why Hermeus sees it as essential to pursue a lower-cost approach to rapid development of combat aircraft. According to Shuford, huge developmental efforts with costs measured in the billions create greater challenges for themselves because of how long they need to stay in service just to justify their expense. By driving down development costs, it becomes possible to design and field platforms specifically for the environment they’re operating in, without having to devote time and money to managing threats that may materialize years or even decades down the road[...]

But the most valuable capability hypersonic aircraft could offer the U.S. military, Shuford contends, is covering a great deal of ground very quickly. The United States operates the largest air force anywhere on the planet, but even Uncle Sam can’t have F-16s and AC-130s flying orbits around every military operation the world over. Long-endurance drones like the MQ-9 Reaper have made it easier to keep eyes and even ordnance above combat zones for extended periods of time, but these low-speed systems can take many hours to reach their targets from even relatively nearby airstrips.

Keeping costs low and speeds high​

By leveraging low-cost hypersonic aircraft, the United States could rely on fewer, faster platforms to provide support, deliver supplies, or provide real-time reconnaissance. While not technically attritable (a term the Air Force uses to describe platforms that are cheap enough to be somewhat disposable), Hermeus’ uncrewed hypersonic aircraft could be less expensive than high-dollar fighters like the F-35 while traveling faster and offering no risk to human operators. Eventually, crewed hypersonic platforms could offer even more mission flexibility.
So whatever happened to the SR-72? We keep hearing every now and then small updates on the it's status, but apart from the reported subscale demonstrator in 2017,in the meantime, now, a civilian company (apparently, looking at you Aerion) is set to beat Lockheed in fielding the first airbreathing hypersonic vehicle. I know that Project Mayhem is tied to the program, but fail to see it's usefulness in case they lag behind, because, (if) the second Darkhorse (not the crappy prototype) flies at Mach 5 and delivers it's promised expectations, they'd be better off throwing the SR-72 in the trash bin, placing orders for Hermeus aircraft instead and adapting them for whatever ISR missions they have in mind.
 
Prove it.
Well, at this point it's still a big IF, they could be waiting to run away with the money and pull a No Man's Sky after receiving enough investment, considering the not so reassuring unveiling of the poorly cobbled "prototype". Even then, they already progressed to a point way farther than Aerion ever did, whose only ever PR during its entire existence were renders, so that's something. Ughh.. there was something else i wanted to say but i forgot...
 
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Prove it.
Well, at this point it's still a big IF, they could be waiting to run away with the money and pull a No Man's Sky after receiving enough investment, considering the not so reassuring unveiling of the poorly cobbled "prototype". Even then, they already progressed to a point way farther than Aerion ever did, whose only ever PR during its entire existence were renders, so that's something. Ughh.. there was something else i wanted to say but i forgot...
Honestly, I really hope you're right, even if time and experience have turned me into a cynic. This is the kind of stuff why I chose my career path.
 
Prove it.
Well, at this point it's still a big IF, they could be waiting to run away with the money and pull a No Man's Sky after receiving enough investment, considering the not so reassuring unveiling of the poorly cobbled "prototype". Even then, they already progressed to a point way farther than Aerion ever did, whose only ever PR during its entire existence were renders, so that's something. Ughh.. there was something else i wanted to say but i forgot...
Honestly, I really hope you're right, even if time and experience have turned me into a cynic. This is the kind of stuff why I chose my career path.
Okay, I'm not implying the SR-72 would be rendered instantly obsolete if Hermeus fastmower flies before it, i find only surprising with how quick a small startup seems to be progressing compared to a multimillion dollar company. They laid this schedule for an initial test flight just in 18 months, a very aggressive undertaking in contrast with the +10 years in the making the SR-72 has been.
 

Hypersonic firm Hermeus proves their Mach 5+ jet engine works​


Alex Hollings | November 18, 2022
On Thursday, Atlanta-based aviation firm Hermeus released a dramatic new video showing their hypersonic engine successfully transitioning from turbojet to ramjet operation, paving the way for it to propel their Quarterhorse aircraft to Mach 5 and potentially even beyond.
Hermeus’ Quarterhorse hypersonic testbed is an uncrewed aircraft meant to demonstrate the relatively young company’s ability to design, build, and field a truly reusable hypersonic aircraft. Building the unique engine intended to power it is arguably the biggest hurdle they need to overcome to get Quarterhorse into the sky.
Successfully creating a single engine system that can transition from turbojet operation to ramjet is, in itself, an impressive feat of engineering, but Hermeus has managed to do it in just 21 months and for a grand total of just $18 million.
Turbojet, ramjet, and scramjet engines are all forms of jet propulsion, but they have a number of fundamental differences. Turbojets can manage speeds from a standstill up beyond Mach 2, but can’t sustain hypersonic speeds of Mach 5 or more. Ramjets and scramjets can, but can’t operate at lower speeds for take-off and landing.
Hermeus aims to get past this issue by combining a turbojet and ramjet into a single engine — which they’ve dubbed, Chimera.
The basic concept driving Chimera and Quarterhorse is to rely on the turbojet engine during take-off and while accelerating. Once the aircraft reaches the performance limit of the turbojet—which Hermeus says is around Mach 2—the ramjet comes online.

At around Mach 3, Chimera begins to completely bypass the turbojet engine and rely entirely on the ramjet to propel the aircraft up to Mach 5 or possibly even a bit faster.

In order to keep costs down, Hermeus manufactured Chimera in-house, even 3D printing as much as 15% of the system’s components.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dykzl9Kaf4
 

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Prove it.
Well, at this point it's still a big IF, they could be waiting to run away with the money and pull a No Man's Sky after receiving enough investment, considering the not so reassuring unveiling of the poorly cobbled "prototype". Even then, they already progressed to a point way farther than Aerion ever did, whose only ever PR during its entire existence were renders, so that's something. Ughh.. there was something else i wanted to say but i forgot...
I mean we would all hope its a no man sky situation considering they stayed and fixed there game in a way no AAA developer has, so let's hope hermes has that kind of grit, that is what going to be required inorder to actually do this.
 
Redesigns. Halcyon, Quarterhorse & Darkhorse


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Interesting choice of an older model. But then I guess it would be harder/more expensive to get newer military engines, and they will likely need something with a lower bypass for their purposes so civilian models are out.
More likely it's because a lot of the work was done years ago.

Hadn't heard of that; it seemed like such an interesting project with a lot of possibilities. It's possible they are using part of that as their start, though so far the company hasn't mentioned injection of other fuel/air materials into the engine. But I think having plenty of engines and parts, including used engines, is also part of the decision. If they plan to test iteratively (and explosively) SpaceX style, they probably want the engines to be plentiful and high mileage to make them relatively disposable for testing purposes even if the end goal is some degree of reuseability. I suspect there are various militaries, including the USAF itself, that would part with their timed out F100s for almost nothing.
 
Interesting choice of an older model. But then I guess it would be harder/more expensive to get newer military engines, and they will likely need something with a lower bypass for their purposes so civilian models are out.
More likely it's because a lot of the work was done years ago.

Hadn't heard of that; it seemed like such an interesting project with a lot of possibilities. It's possible they are using part of that as their start, though so far the company hasn't mentioned injection of other fuel/air materials into the engine. But I think having plenty of engines and parts, including used engines, is also part of the decision. If they plan to test iteratively (and explosively) SpaceX style, they probably want the engines to be plentiful and high mileage to make them relatively disposable for testing purposes even if the end goal is some degree of reuseability. I suspect there are various militaries, including the USAF itself, that would part with their timed out F100s for almost nothing.
sferrin, an interesting observation by you regarding previous research using mass injection pre-compressor cooling with an F100 engine 20 years ago by Rutan. A cutaway diagram for the Hermeus Quarterhorse from their website shows a precooler for the Chimera engine that uses the J85. Hermeus Darkhorse engine is Chimera II using the F100, according to the website. Speculation on my part as a non-engineer, but if they're leveraging previous technology and getting Air Force investment.... they're on to something.

A recent podcast video posted on the Hermeus website, the CEO interviewed SR-71 pilots, including a conversation centered around the technology of the J58 propulsion system. No details were revealed by Hermeus, but the observation was made that the Chimera engine and J58 shared some concepts in air bypass and ramjet propulsion.

I know the engineers seem like a bunch of smarty, young punks and talk funny, but they're making solid progress because apparently, they're led by experienced people. Their timing is good too.
 

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Interesting choice of an older model. But then I guess it would be harder/more expensive to get newer military engines, and they will likely need something with a lower bypass for their purposes so civilian models are out.
More likely it's because a lot of the work was done years ago.

Hadn't heard of that; it seemed like such an interesting project with a lot of possibilities. It's possible they are using part of that as their start, though so far the company hasn't mentioned injection of other fuel/air materials into the engine. But I think having plenty of engines and parts, including used engines, is also part of the decision. If they plan to test iteratively (and explosively) SpaceX style, they probably want the engines to be plentiful and high mileage to make them relatively disposable for testing purposes even if the end goal is some degree of reuseability. I suspect there are various militaries, including the USAF itself, that would part with their timed out F100s for almost nothing.
Josh_TN, an interesting observation by you regarding previous research using mass injection pre-compressor cooling with an F100 engine 20 years ago by Rutan. A cutaway diagram for the Hermeus Quarterhorse from their website shows a precooler for the Chimera engine that uses the J85. Hermeus Darkhorse engine is Chimera II using the F100, according to the website. Speculation on my part as a non-engineer, but if they're leveraging previous technology and getting Air Force investment.... they're on to something.

A recent podcast video posted on the Hermeus website, the CEO interviewed SR-71 pilots, including a conversation centered around the technology of the J58 propulsion system. No details were revealed by Hermeus, but the observation was made that the Chimera engine and J58 shared some concepts in air bypass and ramjet propulsion.

I know the engineers seem like a bunch of smarty, young punks and talk funny, but they're making solid progress because apparently, they're led by experienced people. Their timing is good too.

Credit to sferrin; he was the original poster of the DARPA project involving a ground to orbit platform. I was unaware of it.
 
Wasn't water injection used in turbojets long ago for similar reasons? I want to say the pre-turbofan B-52s had it and used it for takeoff.

EDIT: Also one of the articles in the Hermeus thread does specifically mention a precooler technology, so sferren might well be correct that they are building on previous work with the F100:

"Using our pre-cooler technology, we've taken an off-the-shelf gas turbine engine and operated it at flight speed conditions faster than the famed SR-71."
 
Josh_TN, an interesting observation by you regarding previous research using mass injection pre-compressor cooling with an F100 engine 20 years ago by Rutan. A cutaway diagram for the Hermeus Quarterhorse from their website shows a precooler for the Chimera engine that uses the J85. Hermeus Darkhorse engine is Chimera II using the F100, according to the website. Speculation on my part as a non-engineer, but if they're leveraging previous technology and getting Air Force investment.... they're on to something.

A recent podcast video posted on the Hermeus website, the CEO interviewed SR-71 pilots, including a conversation centered around the technology of the J58 propulsion system. No details were revealed by Hermeus, but the observation was made that the Chimera engine and J58 shared some concepts in air bypass and ramjet propulsion.

I know the engineers seem like a bunch of smarty, young punks and talk funny, but they're making solid progress because apparently, they're led by experienced people. Their timing is good too.
Ooooo, a pre-cooler, like the SABRE engine. I wonder is the turbine spinning air and combustion products at high speed, or just the heated up pre-coolant??
 
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Interesting choice of an older model. But then I guess it would be harder/more expensive to get newer military engines, and they will likely need something with a lower bypass for their purposes so civilian models are out.
More likely it's because a lot of the work was done years ago.

Hadn't heard of that; it seemed like such an interesting project with a lot of possibilities. It's possible they are using part of that as their start, though so far the company hasn't mentioned injection of other fuel/air materials into the engine. But I think having plenty of engines and parts, including used engines, is also part of the decision. If they plan to test iteratively (and explosively) SpaceX style, they probably want the engines to be plentiful and high mileage to make them relatively disposable for testing purposes even if the end goal is some degree of reuseability. I suspect there are various militaries, including the USAF itself, that would part with their timed out F100s for almost nothing.
Josh_TN, an interesting observation by you regarding previous research using mass injection pre-compressor cooling with an F100 engine 20 years ago by Rutan. A cutaway diagram for the Hermeus Quarterhorse from their website shows a precooler for the Chimera engine that uses the J85. Hermeus Darkhorse engine is Chimera II using the F100, according to the website. Speculation on my part as a non-engineer, but if they're leveraging previous technology and getting Air Force investment.... they're on to something.

A recent podcast video posted on the Hermeus website, the CEO interviewed SR-71 pilots, including a conversation centered around the technology of the J58 propulsion system. No details were revealed by Hermeus, but the observation was made that the Chimera engine and J58 shared some concepts in air bypass and ramjet propulsion.

I know the engineers seem like a bunch of smarty, young punks and talk funny, but they're making solid progress because apparently, they're led by experienced people. Their timing is good too.

Credit to sferrin; he was the original poster of the DARPA project involving a ground to orbit platform. I was unaware of it.
Thank you, corrected.
 
Wasn't water injection used in turbojets long ago for similar reasons? I want to say the pre-turbofan B-52s had it and used it for takeoff.

EDIT: Also one of the articles in the Hermeus thread does specifically mention a precooler technology, so sferren might well be correct that they are building on previous work with the F100:

"Using our pre-cooler technology, we've taken an off-the-shelf gas turbine engine and operated it at flight speed conditions faster than the famed SR-71."
There are two types of water injection. You can inject it into the afterburner for a short burst of thrust. The J75 in the F-105 used that for a brief 2,000lb thrust bump on takeoff. I seem to recall reading early KC-135s used it too.

The other kind is a water/alcohol combination injected prior to the engine inlet. This has the effect of cooling (condensing) the air prior to the compressor enabling greater thrust at a given altitude. The F-4 Phantom used this for the "Skyburner" record-setting lfights. The MiG-25 used to set the 123,000ft absolute altitude record also used it.

The precompressor work with the F100 engine used Water/LOX as I recall.

1671655797802.png
 
Wasn't water injection used in turbojets long ago for similar reasons? I want to say the pre-turbofan B-52s had it and used it for takeoff.

EDIT: Also one of the articles in the Hermeus thread does specifically mention a precooler technology, so sferren might well be correct that they are building on previous work with the F100:

"Using our pre-cooler technology, we've taken an off-the-shelf gas turbine engine and operated it at flight speed conditions faster than the famed SR-71."
There are two types of water injection. You can inject it into the afterburner for a short burst of thrust. The J75 in the F-105 used that for a brief 2,000lb thrust bump on takeoff. I seem to recall reading early KC-135s used it too.

The other kind is a water/alcohol combination injected prior to the engine inlet. This has the effect of cooling (condensing) the air prior to the compressor enabling greater thrust at a given altitude. The F-4 Phantom used this for the "Skyburner" record-setting lfights. The MiG-25 used to set the 123,000ft absolute altitude record also used it.
Close - to my knowledge there are no water injection systems that inject into the afterburner - this is where you want the air to be as hot as possible to increase exhaust velocity. Water injection would increase mass flow, but would cool the exhaust stream.

But you are correct, there are two jet engine water injection schemes, and some engines use both. One system injects water into the main combustor to reduce turbine inlet temperatures and add mass flow. This allows the control to increase fuel flow to bring the turbine inlet temp back up to limits and increase total thrust.

The second system is as you described it, injection into the inlet. This cools the inlet air and reduces temperatures throughout the engine. Lower inlet temperature can increase airflow at the same rotor speed and you can push more fuel without exceeding the turbine temp limits. This scheme is somewhat more effective, but does tend to leave hard water deposits on the compressor airfoils, reducing compressor efficiency over time.

Various versions of J57 engines used water injection on the B-52 and KC-135, the J75 on the F-105, and early JT9D engines on B747s also used water injection. These days, I am unaware of any modern engine using water injection.
 
Wasn't water injection used in turbojets long ago for similar reasons? I want to say the pre-turbofan B-52s had it and used it for takeoff.

EDIT: Also one of the articles in the Hermeus thread does specifically mention a precooler technology, so sferren might well be correct that they are building on previous work with the F100:

"Using our pre-cooler technology, we've taken an off-the-shelf gas turbine engine and operated it at flight speed conditions faster than the famed SR-71."
There are two types of water injection. You can inject it into the afterburner for a short burst of thrust. The J75 in the F-105 used that for a brief 2,000lb thrust bump on takeoff. I seem to recall reading early KC-135s used it too.

The other kind is a water/alcohol combination injected prior to the engine inlet. This has the effect of cooling (condensing) the air prior to the compressor enabling greater thrust at a given altitude. The F-4 Phantom used this for the "Skyburner" record-setting lfights. The MiG-25 used to set the 123,000ft absolute altitude record also used it.
Close - to my knowledge there are no water injection systems that inject into the afterburner - this is where you want the air to be as hot as possible to increase exhaust velocity. Water injection would increase mass flow, but would cool the exhaust stream.

But you are correct, there are two jet engine water injection schemes, and some engines use both. One system injects water into the main combustor to reduce turbine inlet temperatures and add mass flow. This allows the control to increase fuel flow to bring the turbine inlet temp back up to limits and increase total thrust.
Thanks. I was wondering how the KC-135s used it as they don't have afterburners.

Looks like it's a bit different, at least for the J75-P19W in the F-105 (From the F-105F Flight Manual):

1671663044741.png

1671663074249.png
 
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I'll confess that I thought Hermeus was another VC bait project. Interesting to see them making progress.

PS: we do have a separate thread specifically for Hermeus.

I've definitely kept my dial to "healthy skepticism" regarding Hermeus in the past, but they're taking sensible steps. Also the Halcyon's just too pretty to ignore.
View: https://twitter.com/hermeuscorp/status/1600934475948773378

Looks like an XB-70's great granddaughter. Hard to hate on it.
 
Aaah OK so they are going MIPCC with their F100 engines ? Borrowing from RASCAL ? Now indeed that's a good idea. If anybody is interested, I collected a crapton of pdf related to RASCAL & MIPCC.

MIPCC is a fantastic technology that never got a serious chance since 1960. As said upthread, the gist of the idea is to inject rocket oxidizer in front (and sometimes in the rear) of a classic military supersonic turbofan. This help busting the "A-12 OXCART speed record" barrier - of Mach 3.5 - without a need for additional turbomachinery - ramjet, scramjet, air collection or REL-like precooler. It is very much a chemical precooler, not as efficient for sure, but cheap and easier to pull out.
And it works with all the classic rocket oxidizers - plus water: LOX, H2O2, N2O4, N2O.
So the neat thing is, if you want a rocket in the back to go suborbital or orbital, the oxidizer is already there on the airbreathing side - it has two uses instead of a single (rocket) one.
For the record, out of 9000+ m/s ascent to orbit delta-V... with a 30 degree AoA climb from 50 000 feet, Mach 0.85 cuts 1100 m/s; Mach 2, 1600 m/s; Mach 3, 2000 m/s. Removing 3000 m/s would take Mach 5.5, and MIPCC can get close from that (last time I checked: Mach 4.5) hence it should be able to remove at least 2500 m/s.
RASCAL was to do exactly that, dropping a small rocket stage at Mach 4.5 before returning to a runway landing.
 
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Aaah OK so they are going MIPCC with their F100 engines ? Borrowing from RASCAL ? Now indeed that's a good idea. If anybody is interested, I collected a crapton of pdf related to RASCAL & MIPCC.

MIPCC is a fantastic technology that never got a serious chance since 1960. As said upthread, the gist of the idea is to inject rocket oxidizer in front (and sometimes in the rear) of a classic military supersonic turbofan. This help busting the "A-12 OXCART speed record" barrier - of Mach 3.5 - without a need for additional turbomachinery - ramjet, scramjet, air collection or REL-like precooler. It is very much a chemical precooler, not as efficient for sure, but cheap and easier to pull out.
And it works with all the classic rocket oxidizers - plus water: LOX, H2O2, N2O4, N2O.
So the neat thing is, if you want a rocket in the back to go suborbital or orbital, the oxidizer is already there on the airbreathing side - it has two uses instead of a single (rocket) one.
For the record, out of 9000+ m/s ascent to orbit delta-V... with a 30 degree AoA climb from 50 000 feet, Mach 0.85 cuts 1100 m/s; Mach 2, 1600 m/s; Mach 3, 2000 m/s. Removing 3000 m/s would take Mach 5.5, and MIPCC can get close from that (last time I checked: Mach 4.5) hence it should be able to remove at least 2500 m/s.
RASCAL was to do exactly that, dropping a small rocket stage at Mach 4.5 before returning to a runway landing.
As they say, the proof is in the pudding, so I'm really looking forward for that tasty dessert...
 
Anyone ever try hypergolics in water injection?

Even if it’s bad on the engine—if you a running a scam…it gives you a boost on some reading…like mothballs in a tank for street racing.
 
Hermeus takes delivery of first P&W F-100 engine

Atlanta-based hypersonics firm, Hermeus, has just taken delivery of an F100-229 engine from Pratt & Whitney.
[...]
Darkhorse will be a versatile aircraft capable of acting as a payload-carrying hypersonic testbed as well as an operational unmanned aircraft for defense and intelligence customers. It will use a scaled-up Chimera II propulsion system which pairs Pratt & Whitney’s 29,160-pound thrust F100 with an in-house developed ramjet (inlet, precooler, ram burner, and bypass system) to reach hypersonic cruise speeds.

Darkhorse will rely on the F-15 engine for takeoff, climb to cruise altitude and acceleration to Mach 2.8 (approximately 2,131 mph). Once that speed is attained it will shut down as the ramjet takes over, accelerating Darkhorse to Mach 5-plus (approx. 3,806 mph) cruise. Once the cruise segment is completed, the aircraft decelerates and at the appropriate subsonic speed and altitude, the F100 is fired back up to bring Darkhorse back to land.

 
Saw a thing from the Hermeus folks recently - they're targeting a mach 5 bomber/recce aircraft, and seem like they have an actual plan to build that. No intention of flying much faster than that due to materials/cost.

I'm also fairly sure the company thinks all the civvie aircraft stuff is just pablum to take the investors money, or at least something to do after they figure out how to achieve Mach 5 routinely.
 
Color me agnostic until their first objectively demonstrated, proven, verified, validated and documented flight to M5 and back in one piece is completed. I've seen *waaaay* too many companies come and go who appeared to *have an actual plan* for that - as the Romans used to say, "Hic Rhodus, hic salta"...
 
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Color me agnostic until their first objectively demonstrated, proven, verified, validated and documented flight to M5 and back in one piece is completed. I've seen *waaaay* too many companies come and go who appeared to *have an actual plan* for that - as the Romans used to say, "Hic Rhodus, hic salta"...
Oh no doubt. My main point is that the other stuff exists _only_ in a powerpoint slide.

I look forward to seeing quarterhorse in the air. Let's all hope they get beyond that.
 

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