Heinkel He 177/277/274 Variants and Projects

[blackkite]

Hi!
He277 and He274.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

 

[dan_inbox]

The photo "He 274 pic1.jpg" is labelled on my disk as Ateliers Aéronautiques de Suresnes AAS-01A at CEV in 1946.

 

[blackkite]

The photo "He 274 pic1.jpg" is labelled on my disk as Ateliers Aéronautiques de Suresnes AAS-01A at CEV in 1946.

Oh thanks a lot.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! He-177.
http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft20200.htm

http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art2322.htm

Large skeleton in English. ;D
http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/he177a5/he177a5-2.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXG1da2drh0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unr5a2ImnTc

 

[Boxman]

Here is some good footage of the Heinkel He 274 (AAS 01) serving as the mothership for the SNCASO SO.M1 (F-WFDJ) in this British Pathé newsreel footage, circa 1950. Some John Paul Stapp rocket-sled footage (using the modified V-1 track at Muroc (Edwards) AFB) subsequently follows in this "Air News" feature.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpHe9XwnZuw

 

[sienar]

From Ebay, some french drawings made not long after the war

Source; http://www.ebay.at/itm/Heinkel-274-Alte-Riss-Zeichnung-Bauplan-evtl-WW2-Flugzeug-oder-Jagdflugzeug-/253002955271

 

[hesham]

Nice find Sienar.

 

[sgeorges4]

Do you know the he 177 A2 variant wich was a recce aircraft(abandoned) and the A4 wich was a A3 with pressurized cockpit?

 

[sgeorges4]

I've found this one on facebook "luft46": https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155831042727260&set=p.10155831042727260&type=3&theater&ifg=1 https://www.facebook.com/groups/luft46/

 

[hesham]

Great find my dear Sgeorges,

but was it a real ?.

 

[Michel Van]

but was it a real ?.

it's looking minimum Fighter Me 328

There were proposal to equip Bomber with parasite fighter Me 328
except that is Mistelgespann means: Me 328 fly the He 177 full of explosive

 

[hesham]

but was it a real ?.

it's looking minimum Fighter Me 328

There were proposal to equip Bomber with parasite fighter Me 328
except that is Mistelgespann means: Me 328 fly the He 177 full of explosive

Or the first reason,to protect the mathership.

 

[athpilot]

but was it a real ?.

it's looking minimum Fighter Me 328

There were proposal to equip Bomber with parasite fighter Me 328
except that is Mistelgespann means: Me 328 fly the He 177 full of explosive

Or the first reason,to protect the mathership.

Both is correct. This particular drawing in #48 is from Fritz Hahn "Flugzeugbewaffnungen" (p.407). He mentions both: a parasite fighter for defence of the He-177 on it´s one way trip to the USA and as a explosive carrier.

 

[Jemiba]

If we take this drawing literally, it wouldn't make much sense as a Mistel explosive carrier, I think.
Still to be fitted with gun turrets would be unlikely then, and AFAIK, German Mistels for air-to-ground
missions were generally fitted with shaped charge warheads.

 

[hesham]

If we take this drawing literally, it wouldn't make much sense as a Mistel explosive carrier, I think.
Still to be fitted with gun turrets would be unlikely then, and AFAIK, German Mistels for air-to-ground
missions were generally fitted with shaped charge warheads.

OK my dear Jemiba.

 

[sienar]

Probably just a proposed use of piggybacking on the 177 for testing. Maybe there were concerns about the 217 not having enough power for the extra drag of the 328 with engines?

 

[Jemiba]

As the Me 328 was proposed as parasite fighter, the only suitable way to carry it probably would have
been piggy-back. The same for using it as independent attack aircraft, I think, the carrying bomber would
have kept his full armament in the case of a parasite fighter, his bomb load, too.
But as a Mistel, with the He 177 used as a missile, just stuffing the fuselage full of explosives probably
wouldn't get the best efficiency.

 

[sgeorges4]

any drawing regarding the heinkel 177 A4 pressurised variant cockpit?

 

[Baders Briar]

Your SECOND one IS the He 277...Amerikabomber!

Dear blackkite:

Bader's Briar here - and if you check out the English language Wikipedia entry on the He 277 Amerikabomber , I've had a LOT of input into that article. over a good number of years!

That SECOND image in your post...



...is from page 159 in the book , and was MIS-labeled as an "He 177B", which is an entirely DIFFERENT project - the He 277 was known to have been given its RLM airframe type number of "8-277" no later than the February 1943 timeframe!

The He 277 Typenblatt 3-view shown above jibes with the Griehl/Dressel book's...

...assertion of it being meant to ONLY be powered with a quartet of BMW 801 radial engines, shown on the above drawing of the nosewheel version, and when that drawing is viewed alongside the one (shown below) for the He 277 bomb loadout chart on page 184 of the above book...



...with the ""wider" (at 1.75 meters beam/Rumpfbreite) seven-meter long bomb bay shown on the Typenblatt 3-view, NAILS the "Typenblatt" drawing I've shown as being for the He 277 Amerikabomber design, most likely to have been a nosewheel aircraft as shown, with the measured seven-meter long bomb bay.

The He 277 suffered the same fate as the four-jet powered He 343, in NEVER having a completed prototype built for it at any time, with only "parts built" for it before May 1945 arrived - the 277, in fact, was officially cancelled on Hitler's 55th birthday; April 20, 1944.

Four He 177B prototypes (V101-V104) WERE ordered by the RLM according to the book's text, with only three delivered...the He 177 V101, the first B-series prototype...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_277




..ended up being wrecked by Luftwaffe ground personnel (most likely) right near the Reparatur-Werk Eger facility (Cheb, Czech Republic) by the end of the war, essentially at today's Cheb Airport...





...nothing is "definitively" known of the twin-tailed V102's fate (it first flew in December 1943), while the V103 and unfinished V104 prototype airframes were wrecked by 15th Air Force B-24 raids on Floridsdorf. Austria on July 8, 1944 at the Heinkel-Süd facilities there.

So, with the four-ordered He 177B prototypes, the pair of He 274s finished in France after the war for motherplane duties with French air-launched X-planes through about 1948...



...and the NEVER-completed He 277 design, there were a "trio of parallel designs" underway from 1942-1944, intending to go forwards for a truly "four-engined" follow-on to the He 177A.

That Griehl/Dressel book IS a hard-to-find one, at times...but if one becomes available online, like at Amazon, and you've got a serious interest in the entire "family" of He 177-family designs, jump at it, if it's not TOO "outrageously" priced.

Thanks and Yours Sincerely,
Bader's Briar

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

Given that we know that the true He 277 was a different aircraft than the He 177B, does anyone know when aviation historians first invented the He 277B-5 and He 277B-6 designations for the He 177B and He 277 respectively?

 

[newsdeskdan]

The Wikipedia entry on the He 277 has a number of inaccuracies. For example, while the He 277 was initially intended to have BMW 801s, by December 1943 the 801 was no longer part of the design, as shown in this RLM data sheet from December 1943.






Other inaccuracies include the idea that the Ta 400/Fw 300 A was in any way related to the Fw 300 (Fw 200 successor) - it wasn't - and the idea that the 'last competitor for the He 277 was the Ju 488' - it wasn't. That would be the Ta 400.
The 'Fw 300 A' designation was purely a codename used whenever Focke-Wulf's French subcontractor SNCASO were involved. They had previously worked on the Fw 300 transport and it suited Focke-Wulf to have them think that the 'Fw 300 A' was in some way related to it. French drawings of the 'Fw 300 A' show the Ta 400 without any turret or other armament detail.
Here are some RLM and Focke-Wulf documents from June 1944 showing preparatory work for the construction of the Ta 400 V1.

 

[Temistocle]

Hi. watching the video of He 219 V1 (VG+LW) from post #48 of this thread

Some questions about the Heinkel He 219's Nacelle Thrust Line

I noticed that during take off and landing (the airport is Rostock Marienehe), the He 219 passed behind a He 177, and some details caught my attention:
1) the glazed nose is the typical rounded version of the V prototypes;
2) only the rear dorsal turret is present, but only as a dummy with a metal cover;
3) there is a "pack" installed on the tail;
4) the typical four letter code on the fuselage is missing.
After a brief research, I think that this He 177 is the V15 prototype (Werk nr 355001), used for testing a tail parachute as dive brake (the "pack" on the tail).
The video was taken after (at least) November 6, 1942, the date of the He 219 V1 first flight, and before June 24, 1944, when He 177 V15 crashed during tests.
Here some other screenshots from the same video:


No Wr. Nr. on the tail


The dummy dorsal turret


The rounded glazed nose. The port engine is working; There is a small white text on the fuselage.


The parachute pack on the tail.


No four-letter code on the fuselage.


Another view of the parachute pack.

 

[Airborne2001]

Does anyone here have info on the He-177A-6? (Including pictures.)

 

[TomcatViP]

Wouldn't the parachute be hosted under the dummy rear turret cover with the attach point below the gunner position in the fairing?
Notice that this could be also a glider towing harness point.

 

[Temistocle]

Wouldn't the parachute be hosted under the dummy rear turret cover with the attach point below the gunner position in the fairing?
Notice that this could be also a glider towing harness point.

I think, for the best efficiency, that the parachute harness must be deployed "around" the tail, not below, as in the Do 217 installation:

Dornier 217 dive brake

Scroll the page to the last pictures. Maybe we will never see the He 177 parachute deployed in a picture or drawing...

 

[Airborne2001]

Revell’s 1/72 Heinkel He 177A-5 & A-6 by Mark Davies and Steve Lowe

I have remembered that there is this website which shows a comparison between an A-5 and an A-6.
Note the Hecklafette HL 131V!

 

[sgeorges4]

was the heinkel 177 A6 considered to carry missile such as the PC 1400 fritz X or the henschel hs 293 like revell heinkel 177 A6 suggest ? And wasn't the nose of the A6 different from the one of the A5:

 

[Airborne2001]

was the heinkel 177 A6 considered to carry missile such as the PC 1400 fritz X or the henschel hs 293 like revell heinkel 177 A6 suggest ? And wasn't the nose of the A6 different from the one of the A5:

The nose was different I believe. I am not sure about the missile carrying capabilities, but I would assume that it probably would have been able to carry missiles.

 

[Airborne2001]

Does anyone have any knowledge on the He-179? Apparently it was a plan for a four separate engines version of the bomber, except from the late 1930's.

 

[Luftfahrtsammler]

was the heinkel 177 A6 considered to carry missile such as the PC 1400 fritz X or the henschel hs 293 like revell heinkel 177 A6 suggest ? And wasn't the nose of the A6 different from the one of the A5:

The nose was different I believe. I am not sure about the missile carrying capabilities, but I would assume that it probably would have been able to carry missiles.

Yes, the Heinkel He 177 was able to carry Fritz X and Hs 293! See the following docment:

Regards
Oliver

 

[sgeorges4]

I know for the A5 ,but I don't think we have much material on the A6 capacity

 

[Luftfahrtsammler]

You are probably right. It was my missunderstanding. I thought the question was for the He 177 in general.
To the He 177 A-6 I found only this in my collection:

regards
Oliver

 

[Archibald]

It is a shame France couldn't put Turbomeca turbines on an improved He-274 and get a strategic bomber this way...

 

[Antonio]

Turbomeca turbines on an improved He-274

In a recent article (can't remember which German magazine was) about NK-12 engine, there was a fabulous 3D what if twin turboprop He-177 version. I'll try to find the magazine identity.

 

[Antonio]

Found it

Flugzeug Classic

Flugzeug Classic ist das einzige, monatlich erscheinende deutschsprachige Magazin für historische Luftfahrt. Als Einzelheft oder im Abonnement.

flugzeugclassic.de

"Antrieb NK-12: Deutsche Gene" Pg 26

 

[Pasoleati]

Question for engine experts: Would it have been too difficult to replace the coupled engines in the He 177 with a tandem installation either with an arrangement in which the rear engine drives a Co-axial front propeller or with the rear engine acting as a pusher?

 

[rinkol]

Question for engine experts: Would it have been too difficult to replace the coupled engines in the He 177 with a tandem installation either with an arrangement in which the rear engine drives a Co-axial front propeller or with the rear engine acting as a pusher?

Tandem engines would seriously complicate the wing structure as they would be in the way of wing spars. There is also the question of finding space for the undercarriage. If a rear pusher engine is used, there is a potential issue with propeller ground clearance, particularly if a tailwheel undercarriage configuration is used.

 

[Pasoleati]

I don't have He 177 cutaways at hand, but I think it might have been possible to fit the second engine between the main spars.

Another potential scheme: two engines buried within the wing laterally driving a common prop gearbox via 90 deg gearing.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Found it

Flugzeug Classic

Flugzeug Classic ist das einzige, monatlich erscheinende deutschsprachige Magazin für historische Luftfahrt. Als Einzelheft oder im Abonnement.

flugzeugclassic.de

"Antrieb NK-12: Deutsche Gene" Pg 26

No idea how to get to that page on a German language site.