Heckler & Koch G11

[HoHun]

Hi again,

I haven't seen detailed pictures of the 15-round sticks, but I imagine it might have been possible to load their rounds into a magazine in a similar manner as loading a bolt action rifle from a stripper clip.

Here's a clip showing how the ammunition sticks are used to reload a magazine:

View: https://youtu.be/n6JWCEmCgD8?t=49


There's indeed a certain similarity to stripper clips, though the magazine actually goes inside the stick to pick up the rounds.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[357Mag]

Hi again,



Here's a clip showing how the ammunition sticks are used to reload a magazine:

View: https://youtu.be/n6JWCEmCgD8?t=49


There's indeed a certain similarity to stripper clips, though the magazine actually goes inside the stick to pick up the rounds.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

From what I've read, ammunition storage damage and ammunition handling damage were some detractors.

More impactfull.... were various in-use issues, like failure to feed, cycle, and/ or fire; due to a variety of factors.
These became of critical importance, when guns could not be operated ( or more specifically ) cleared by the operator.
The report I read said that some of these issues could not be successfully resolved, to support the gun's practical use in a military environment.

With regards,
357Mag

 

[HoHun]

Hi,

The report I read said that some of these issues could not be successfully resolved, to support the gun's practical use in a military environment.

What's the context of this report? As far as the Bundeswehr was concerned, the G11 seems to have successfully completed its trials and been formally cleared for adoption. That couldn't have happened if the weapon hadn't been proven beyond doubt to fulfill all applicable Bundeswehr requirements.

(And normally, the adminstrative apparatus of the Bundeswehr is infamous for overly restrictive requirements and excessive thoroughness.)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[357Mag]

Hi,



What's the context of this report? As far as the Bundeswehr was concerned, the G11 seems to have successfully completed its trials and been formally cleared for adoption. That couldn't have happened if the weapon hadn't been proven beyond doubt to fulfill all applicable Bundeswehr requirements.

(And normally, the adminstrative apparatus of the Bundeswehr is infamous for overly restrictive requirements and excessive thoroughness.)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

HoHun -

Howdy!

The context would be that the caseless gun exhibited issues with operators being able to clear damaged, misfired, failed to fire ammo; et al.

Not all " stoppages " could be cleared in the field, with some weapons needing to be sent to a more specialized/ equipped facility

I'll try to find the report, which I read on the net.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Scott Kenny]

What's the context of this report? As far as the Bundeswehr was concerned, the G11 seems to have successfully completed its trials and been formally cleared for adoption. That couldn't have happened if the weapon hadn't been proven beyond doubt to fulfill all applicable Bundeswehr requirements.

(And normally, the adminstrative apparatus of the Bundeswehr is infamous for overly restrictive requirements and excessive thoroughness.)

The German army has always been more accepting of "events that result in the weapon being sent back to a specially-trained armorer with specialty tools".

For example, you can't take a Kar98K out of the stock without a special tool for the cross-bolt in the stock. Or improvising something out of exceptionally pointy needle-nose pliers, like I did with a friend's rifle. Only an armorer was supposed to have the special spanner for that.

For the US, removing the metal bits from the stock was a standard soldier task.

In the case of my friend's rifle, he'd bought it surplus and we needed to give it a particularly thorough cleaning to get all the cosmoline out. (1.3TB rant about how much cosmoline sucks to remove deleted)

 

[HoHun]

Hi Scott,

The German army has always been more accepting of "events that result in the weapon being sent back to a specially-trained armorer with specialty tools".

Good point! I think it's acutally a (continental) European thing, meant to work for large conscript armies fighting intensively, but on short logicistical lines. They don't want their soldiers to mess with their equipment, because they'd probably make matters worse, and it's not necessary because specialists are at hand.

The US (and probably the UK to a degree as well) have always had a priority on overseas deployment, where a potentially small detachment of professional soldiers has to be able to fight for prolonged periods with a great degree of self-reliance, so they expect their soldiers to fix their equipment since they don't have easy access to the specialists and their dedicated tools.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[Moose]

Hi again,



Here's a clip showing how the ammunition sticks are used to reload a magazine:

View: https://youtu.be/n6JWCEmCgD8?t=49


There's indeed a certain similarity to stripper clips, though the magazine actually goes inside the stick to pick up the rounds.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

You gotta admit, using that loading device produces a satisfying sound.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Good point! I think it's acutally a (continental) European thing, meant to work for large conscript armies fighting intensively, but on short logicistical lines. They don't want their soldiers to mess with their equipment, because they'd probably make matters worse, and it's not necessary because specialists are at hand.

Sounds like a reasonable start to the concept.

The US (and probably the UK to a degree as well) have always had a priority on overseas deployment, where a potentially small detachment of professional soldiers has to be able to fight for prolonged periods with a great degree of self-reliance, so they expect their soldiers to fix their equipment since they don't have easy access to the specialists and their dedicated tools.

At least for the US, that honestly predates the Spanish-American War and American interventions. The westward expansion of the US left military units a long way away from their logistics hubs, so weapons had to be something that the individual soldier could keep working.