Hawker Siddeley VTOL/STOL Concepts

[ursrius]

A question for Barrington Bond - the five Hawker/HS projects you shared since 2011 (P.1132, P.1152, the twin Pegasus strike aircraft and two unnumbered HS naval designs); what is the source for the drawings?

 

[uk 75]

The various BAC and HS attempts to replace the
Hunter FGA and Sea Vixen with ambitious VG and
VSTOL designs did not end with P1154. Between 1958 and
1968 a huge raft of designs were prepared, and carried on
into the 70s as Harrier and Jaguar replacements.
These paper projects deserve a book of their own.

 

[hesham]

The HS.807-125.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/9j3yct/3view_of_purposed_dual_rotary_wing_vtol_aircraft/

 

[zebedee]

From the September 1987 Hatfield Future Projects Newsletter:

1976-77 BAe/HSA Hatfield entries for the US Navy Type A V/STOL competition. Two designs are shown, one a twin boom ducted fan design, the other with three vectored thrust engines and three lift fans.

"This page devoted to our work of a decade ago for a submission to meet a US Navy requirement for a V/STOL aircraft, is published to serve as a small tribute to Charles Bradbury*. Who, in 1977 when this HSA/BAe submission being entered with other US competition for the Type A Aircraft capable of carrier borne operation, was responsible for the overall design of one of four types proposed. Known as Aircraft Configuration No 1, Charles designed this to incorporate three lift/cruise engine and three lift fans. In 1976 the US Navy confirmed the need for a V/STOL Type A, with missionised versions suitable for ASW, AEW Marine Assault, VOD, Tanker and SAR roles, in order to increase effectiveness of ship based airpower. VTOL would allow dispersal to small ships, with STO would permit increased capability from larger ships. BAe/HSA was one of six companies who submitted some eight volumes comprising the total submission in answer to US Navy requirements. One of the principal projects included in this submission was an advanced ducted fan, twin boom aircraft, for which Charles displaying his talents as an artist produced this lively impression in oils of the aircraft, for use within the promotional and presentation material."

Zeb

* Recently deceased at time of publication, edition also features a full obituary

 

[hesham]

Wow,many thanks my dear Zebedee.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Seconded!

 

[hesham]

From, https://support.jstor.org/hc/en-us/search?utf8=✓&query=aircraft

 

[zen]

Joint Study - Fixed wing Bi-Service aircraft.Fixed high aspect ratio wing with twin deflected thrust main engines plus additional lift boost engines.

Is it just me or do you feel like slapping the designers of HSA and telling then to loose the ______ing V in V/STOL ?
Just like the P1152 this would be a sensible design but for all the V/STOL elements.

 

[zebedee]

Some more gems from the Hatfield stash...

First image is the HS133 with 18 RB202 lift engines. Second image shows a more generic design in a proposed 'VTOL Port' by London based engineering consultancy Brian Colquhoun and Partners. Third image is again more generic with features from the 133 and 141...

Zeb

 

[zebedee]

Military versions of the HS141 and HS133... the 133 appears to have had the vertical stabiliser and engines moved to make way for a rear ramp...

Zeb

 

[zebedee]

From the Hatfield Future Projects Newsletters No.24, April 1988

1969: HS138/145 VTOL Fan Lift W.S.R (Wide Speed Range) projects...

"The HS138 is an aircraft designed to the draft specification for a "Wide Speed Range Aircraft". It is intended to combine the high speed attack capabilities of the high speed strike aircraft with the low speed search and strike potential of the battlefield helicopter. The HS145 is an 8-seat executive aircraft using the same lift fan and outer wing geometry as the HS138. They each employ four RB.202-25 lift fans at the same rating as used in the HS141 VTOL airliner (i.e. 10,900 lb. SLST)and two propulsion engines with full thrust deflection. One means of achieving the desired degree of commonality is shown by the configuration represented

The specified mission with a crew of two and a 2000 lb weapon load (Carried out and back) is over a radius of 115 nm. at sea level under ISA 15°C temperature conditions at 575 mph EAS. At mid point, a search at a speed not exceeding 60 mph EAS is carried out for 15 minutes followed by 5 minutes at maximum speed."

Zeb

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From the Hatfield Future Projects Newsletters No.24, April 1988

1969: HS138/145 VTOL Fan Lift W.S.R (Wide Speed Range) projects...

"The HS138 is an aircraft designed to the draft specification for a "Wide Speed Range Aircraft". It is intended to combine the high speed attack capabilities of the high speed strike aircraft with the low speed search and strike potential of the battlefield helicopter. The HS145 is an 8-seat executive aircraft using the same lift fan and outer wing geometry as the HS138. They each employ four RB.202-25 lift fans at the same rating as used in the HS141 VTOL airliner (i.e. 10,900 lb. SLST)and two propulsion engines with full thrust deflection. One means of achieving the desired degree of commonality is shown by the configuration represented

The specified mission with a crew of two and a 2000 lb weapon load (Carried out and back) is over a radius of 115 nm. at sea level under ISA 15°C temperature conditions at 575 mph EAS. At mid point, a search at a speed not exceeding 60 mph EAS is carried out for 15 minutes followed by 5 minutes at maximum speed."

Zeb

I wonder if that project was one that Dave Williams worked on when he was at Hatfield. Its got an Addax-S vibe to it...

 

[zebedee]

Unfortunately apart from people retiring the leaflets are very short on details of the designers and engineers...

Zeb

 

[zebedee]

Another V/STOL project from Hatfield... the HS139 from 1967. The article in the newsletter is much lighter on detail than some of the others, however it hints at collaboration with Dornier as mentioned in the Flight Article from post #6. The engine details I suspect refer to the prototypes, with the first two airframes being CTOL and the Alison lift engines being installed from airframe three onwards.

Zeb

 

[hesham]

From Icare 1962.

 

[hesham]

Here is a Hawker APD.1017 and P.1217;

Beyond the Harrier - Kingston V/Stol Projects 1957-1988

The aircraft design team based at Kingston-upon-Thames in England (called variously Hawker, Hawker Siddeley Aviation and British Aerospace over the years) produced a large number of Vertical and/or Short Take-Off and Landing (V/STOL) projects in the 1957-1988 timeframe. The unique feature of their w

www.sae.org

 

[sienar]

That above journal article is a real goldmine

 

[TsrJoe]

(Hawker/FW.) P.1262 (& P.1161) some project listing spaces filled !

 

[hesham]

From, Faster Than Sound The Story of Supersonic Flight,

what was this ?.

 

[Torchwood1997]

Hi guys, first comment here. Just wanted to add a little anecdote. My late grandma used to work for Hawker Siddeley at Lostock in Bolton.

Whilst even 30 years on she couldn't tell me too much (various Non disclosure forms etc etc), and she never did tell me exactly what she did, I do know that she worked on both hydraulic and electrical systems for both HS aircraft designs and missile systems.

She fell in love with the Harrier (who wouldn't?) and I distinctly remember as a child, her telling me that they had been working on systems for a supersonic development and compatible weapons systems.

Although she mainly worked on seaborne and landlaunched missile systems, she said that working on this project was the most fun she'd had and that she was very disappointed when it suddenly got thrown away.

Sorry if this doesn't add much, just wanted to share in her memory

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Hawker P.1132 subsonic VTOL strike aircraft.
https://ukx-dev.fandom.com/wiki/Hawker_P1132
Engine : Two BE.53.

 

[hesham]

Hi guys, first comment here. Just wanted to add a little anecdote. My late grandma used to work for Hawker Siddeley at Lostock in Bolton.

Whilst even 30 years on she couldn't tell me too much (various Non disclosure forms etc etc), and she never did tell me exactly what she did, I do know that she worked on both hydraulic and electrical systems for both HS aircraft designs and missile systems.

She fell in love with the Harrier (who wouldn't?) and I distinctly remember as a child, her telling me that they had been working on systems for a supersonic development and compatible weapons systems.

Although she mainly worked on seaborne and landlaunched missile systems, she said that working on this project was the most fun she'd had and that she was very disappointed when it suddenly got thrown away.
Sorry if this doesn't add much, just wanted to share in her memory

Hi Torchwood,

if you have unknown Projects,please send it.

 

[uk 75]

Hi guys, first comment here. Just wanted to add a little anecdote. My late grandma used to work for Hawker Siddeley at Lostock in Bolton.

Whilst even 30 years on she couldn't tell me too much (various Non disclosure forms etc etc), and she never did tell me exactly what she did, I do know that she worked on both hydraulic and electrical systems for both HS aircraft designs and missile systems.

She fell in love with the Harrier (who wouldn't?) and I distinctly remember as a child, her telling me that they had been working on systems for a supersonic development and compatible weapons systems.

Although she mainly worked on seaborne and landlaunched missile systems, she said that working on this project was the most fun she'd had and that she was very disappointed when it suddenly got thrown away.

Sorry if this doesn't add much, just wanted to share in her memory

Torchwood1997 welcome to the mad world of what-if.
Your late grandma was describing the supersonic P1154 Harrier which was cancelled in 1964. Read more here

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/hawker-siddeley-p-1154.5875/page-3#post-379605

 

[blackkite]

This is the central fuselage version of the P.1132.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/misc03-jpg.244491/

 

[blackkite]

Hi! P.1208-2.
https://ukx-dev.fandom.com/wiki/BAe_P1208-2
"With the separation of AST.403 into two roles - air superiority and close air support - Hawker proposed the P1208 for the AST.409 close air support role. The P1208 built on much of the aerodynamic thinking of the P1205 programme to create an ultra maneuverable subsonic Harrier. One of the most striking Harriers designed, the forward swept wing/canard layout, together with the raised cockpit and chin inlet, disguised a relatively modest upgrade to the Harrier GR3."

 

[youROKer]

Some Hawker Siddeley STOL projects. From IDR 1970-03.

 

[zen]

Some Hawker Siddeley STOL projects. From IDR 1970-03.

The STOL design looks like Brough's P.146.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Why would someone propose using jet lift engines, yet keep the main propulsion a radial piston engine? You would need to carry two types of fuel. Why not just convert the main propulsion to a turboprop and then it could all use JP-4. Curious.

Turbines will run just fine on AvGas. Or even on auto gas, just need the Fuel Controller "tuned" for it.

From the Hatfield Future Projects Newsletters No.24, April 1988

1969: HS138/145 VTOL Fan Lift W.S.R (Wide Speed Range) projects...

"The HS138 is an aircraft designed to the draft specification for a "Wide Speed Range Aircraft". It is intended to combine the high speed attack capabilities of the high speed strike aircraft with the low speed search and strike potential of the battlefield helicopter. The HS145 is an 8-seat executive aircraft using the same lift fan and outer wing geometry as the HS138. They each employ four RB.202-25 lift fans at the same rating as used in the HS141 VTOL airliner (i.e. 10,900 lb. SLST)and two propulsion engines with full thrust deflection. One means of achieving the desired degree of commonality is shown by the configuration represented

The specified mission with a crew of two and a 2000 lb weapon load (Carried out and back) is over a radius of 115 nm. at sea level under ISA 15°C temperature conditions at 575 mph EAS. At mid point, a search at a speed not exceeding 60 mph EAS is carried out for 15 minutes followed by 5 minutes at maximum speed."

Zeb

That is a fascinating idea, basically a fixed wing aircraft that can do attack helicopter work...

 

[Yellow Palace]

Turbines will run just fine on AvGas. Or even on auto gas, just need the Fuel Controller "tuned" for it.

There's at least one gas turbine that runs on pulverised peat. Damn things will burn almost anything if they're set up right.

 

[Scott Kenny]

There's at least one gas turbine that runs on pulverised peat. Damn things will burn almost anything if they're set up right.

just needs to be a fine enough powder to flow like a liquid.

 

[hesham]

From Flight 1969.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the Hawker Siddeley Aviation and its engineers created a nice VTOL
100-passenger airliner projects in 1969,most of them were unknown.


http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1969/1969 - 2138.html

The whole article.

 

[Pioneer]

Sorry, but does anyone have a drawing or artist impression of the Hawker P.1170?

Regards
Pioneer

 

[hesham]

Sorry, but does anyone have a drawing or artist impression of the Hawker P.1170?

Regards
Pioneer

Here it's my dear Pioneer.

 

[Pioneer]

Thank you very much hesham

Regards
Pioneer

 

[zen]

Some Hawker Siddeley STOL projects. From IDR 1970-03.

You know it just hit me looking at the data. TO run of 750ft.....for both fixed blown wing design and VG design.
They're both just over 50ft long
And Eagle and Ark Royal both have 800ft long flight decks.