Hawker P.1121 "Hurricane"

[GTX]

S&N models in the UK made a 1/72 resin model. It is now OOP AIUI but might be available on Evilbay if you look hard enough.

Freightdog models used to sell them, so they might be a point of contact.

Wasn't someone also planning or doing a larger scale kit?

 

[Johnbr]

I found this good find.

 

[Archibald]

This.is.GREAT.
Thank you Johnbr !!!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

That's Barrie Hygate's writeup of P.1121 from his 1990 book British Experimental Jet Aircraft.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I have issues with a few parts of this article but its pretty good for its age.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

So, what's this? ;D

 

[hesham]

So, what's this? ;D

My dear Paul,


is this a part of its fuselage or something else ?.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Wind tunnel model of the air intake and front fuselage, preserved at RAF Museum Stafford stores.

 

[hesham]

Wind tunnel model of the air intake and front fuselage, preserved at RAF Museum Stafford stores.

Beauty one,thank you my dear Paul.

 

[LowObservable]

The article's comment that the Gyron "was less suited to the attack role" was the understatement of the century.

 

[Trident]

Braybrook described the 1121 as "a badly designed F-105" IIRC.

Although its role was perhaps similar, my impression is that in its final guise it would have been a much closer analogue to the Crusader III, especially if fitted with the Olympus engine.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The article's comment that the Gyron "was less suited to the attack role" was the understatement of the century.

Indeed. Also its claims that the prototype was "almost complete" are wrong. At most, it was 50-60% complete.

 

[elmayerle]

I've always thought that an afterburning Medway would be a most suitable engine for the strike fighter version, giving a bit better fuel economy when full power wasn't needed.

 

[Richard N]

This is the Maintrack PX-011 Hawker P.1121 1/72 scale vac kit with metal parts, decals, and scale drawings by Barrie Hygate. I found it at a US IPMS Nationals back in the '90s.

 

[JimK]

I have issues with a few parts of this article but its pretty good for its age.

As a collector of aircraft cutaways, thanks for the nice scans of the Aeroplane article. I've joined the two pages of the cutaway, cleaned it up a bit, and repositioned the key:

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

A nice job. Here's a sneak peek at the official Hawker prototype cutaway - it was published in Project Cancelled but the reproduction wasn't great.

 

[Basil]

Does anyone have any drawings of the P1123 and P1125? They even are not mentioned in Thony Buttler's book.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Yes to both. They were published in British Secret Projects: Jet Bombers.

 

[Basil]

Thanks, Paul. That's the one I do not have

 

[athpilot]

Me thinks: a real nice one.

 

[Motocar]

Excelent post...!

 

[CJGibson]

Very early Adrian Mann images from last century. Before he hired Slartibartfast.

Chris

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

http://fighters.forumactif.com/t12593p15-montages-chrono-de-vectralex-et-chticumulus

http://on-target-aviation.com/harrier.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy_zhe_tjCM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjX80M5xVLE

How about build a replica?

 

[Mike Pryce]

P1121 pic

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Photograph-of-Hawker-P-1121-Prototype-Front-Fuselage-Showing-Transport-Joint-/142953242115?oid=142886199564

Also this was sold recently https://picclick.co.uk/Photograph-of-Hawker-P1121-Test-Rig-142886199564.html

Copies attached

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Nice previously unseen P.1121 Photo

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142965159782?ul_noapp=true

Nice pic - I'd like a copy of this myself. Anyone here bidding on this already?

 

[hesham]

Re: Nice previously unseen P.1121 Photo

Nice find my dear Paul,

and as I remember it is appeared in a recent magazine during 2018,but what is it ?.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Re: Nice previously unseen P.1121 Photo

A forum member is bidding on this.

 

[Johnbr]

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

OK - I'l bite

Better copy of the Hawker cutaway. Its a beautiful piece of art.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

In my book you can find this Barrie Hygate cutaway of the production P.1121 on the inside front cover. The copy in the book has a full legend explaining all the features

 

[hesham]

In my book you can find this Barrie Hygate cutaway of the production P.1121 on the inside front cover. The copy in the book has a full legend explaining all the features

Wow,I want to get this book.

 

[Hobbes]

Unfortunately Hygate's book is long OOP and second-hand examples are getting expensive.

 

[LowObservable]

That's one big-a$$ "target marker".

I had never looked at a cutaway long enough to note the unusual "mid-engine" layout, unlike the Hunter or the F-105 where the compressor face is in line with the trailing edge, and with the augmentor on the opposite end of a long jetpipe (like the Boeing X-32).

From the little sketch in the corner of the Aeroplane cutaway it looks as if the idea was to balance fuel capacity fore and aft, with two substantial tanks forming a horseshoe around the jetpipe. 1500 Imp gal (12,250 lb) was not bad by the standards of the day.

 

[Archibald]

Cosford museum should get their relic out of storage and build a P.1121 full size replica around it. Of course - take special care of telling the public "what's replica and what's original airframe". It would be one hell of amazing display. Reminds me of the Arrow - the full scale replica and RL-206 nose. That P.1121 would be an interesting mix of both.

If only Hawker had build a "subscale P.1121" using the most powerful RR Avon on hand (essentially the Lightning Mk.6 engine, or Draken), it would have been a world beater as was the Hunter before it.
Looking at Mirage F1, Mirage III and F-104 sales, it could have sold 700, 1400 or even 2000+ aircraft.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Unfortunately Hygate's book is long OOP and second-hand examples are getting expensive.

This is true of Barrie Hygates 1990 book but not really relevant to the topic. The P.1121 drawings and info there are superceded by the 2015 book Barrie and I did.

 

[Hobbes]

My apologies, I misread Hesham's post.

 

[_Del_]

That's one big-a$$ "target marker".

I had never looked at a cutaway long enough to note the unusual "mid-engine" layout, unlike the Hunter or the F-105 where the compressor face is in line with the trailing edge, and with the augmentor on the opposite end of a long jetpipe (like the Boeing X-32).

From the little sketch in the corner of the Aeroplane cutaway it looks as if the idea was to balance fuel capacity fore and aft, with two substantial tanks forming a horseshoe around the jetpipe. 1500 Imp gal (12,250 lb) was not bad by the standards of the day.

The bulge from the aft tanks around the jetpipe also help the area ruling, probably not unintentionally.

It's interesting. Different.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I'll post a drawing of the fuel system tonight which shows this well. And yes, the bulge is there for area ruling.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Fuel Systems

Total internal fuel capacity of P.1121 was 1,500 Imperial gallons (P.1103 was just 1,100), carried in lightweight nylon bag tanks housed within light-alloy structural bays. These were divided into five main groups:

1. Forward fuselage, comprising one 265gal and one 158gal tanks mounted behind the cockpit and above the intake duct.
2. Centre fuselage, one 64 and two 67 gallon tanks plus two 12 gallon recuperators above and around the intake duct.
3. Rear fuselage, two 217 gallon tanks around the jet pipe.
4. Each wing, two integral tanks, each containing 210 gallons.

The centre fuselage group served as collector tanks for the whole system, all other tanks feeding to the engine via this group. There was provision for up to 900 gallons of additional fuel to be carried on the four underwing pylons, the inboard pair being stressed to carry either 300 or 150 gallon tanks, and the outer pair only the smaller tank. The first prototype had no provision for underwing stores as no electrical wiring or plumbing for fuel was fitted. For the strike role, the tactical nuclear weapon was to be carried on a specially-modified pylon at the port inboard wing station only, with fuel tanks on the other three pylons. The system was pressurised to 8psi using compressor bleed-air to transfer fuel, as well as to suppress boiling at high altitude. Selectors and a flow-proportioner automatically controlled transfer to ensure lateral balance and minimum movement of the centre of gravity. Transfer sequence for external fuel was unusual in that the fuel from the inboard tanks was used first, followed by that in the outboard tanks, this being the reverse of normal practice. Internal sequence was the front and rear tanks, then wing tanks and finally the centre fuselage collector group. Barrie Hygate recalled that during bombing trials on the Hunter, the aircraft was at times flown with empty inboard pylons, with two 100-gallon tanks fitted to the outer ones. The aft C.G. position produced when these were full made longitudinal control and stability a little 'twitchy', but was easily controllable with experience, and it was barely noticeable when they were empty.

The engine was fed via a pair of booster pumps driven by bleed-air, which also fed the reheat high-pressure pump in the rear fuselage. A small electrically-driven pump was fitted in the collector tanks to provide pressure for starting and for any conditions where the bleed-air was insufficient to run the main booster pumps at their correct pressure. The two 12 gallon recuperators were capable of supplying the engine for 18 seconds at maximum dry thrust, or 7 seconds at full reheat, under negative 'g' conditions.

A single pressure-refuelling point was provided in the left main wheel bay capable of accepting a flow-rate of 300 gallons/minute at 50 psi. Pressure relief valves in each tank group allowed venting during refuelling, and dumped any excess fuel in the event of the delivery valves failing to shut-off. The refuelling point could also be used for de-fuelling at a lower rate via the engine delivery pipe and a manually operated de-fuelling cock.

Fuel levels were registered on two cockpit gauges, one showing fuel in the front and rear fuselage and wing tanks and the other collector tank fuel. Fuel carried in the underwing drop tanks was not gauged, 'doll's-eye' indicators showing tanks empty. Flow meters were fitted in the engine and reheat delivery pipes, each having its own cockpit gauge, the engine delivery pipe gauge also indicating total fuel used (in lbs), for both engine and reheat.

 

[kitnut617]

I don't know if something similar has been posted yet, but these were sent to me by my friend Steve Gardner (britjet on Britmodeller) who took the photos while on a tour of the storage hanger. He said there was more of it but couldn't get to the rest of it to take decent photos.