Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects

CJGibson

CJGibson

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We are pleased to announce that Blue Envoy Press will be producing Paul Martell-Mead and Barrie Hygate’s long-awaited Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm’s Last Fighter Projects in the Project Tech Profile series.

All at Blue Envoy would like to thank SPF members for their fantastic support and help with the Project Tech Profiles and hope that Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm’s Last Fighter Projects meets your expectations. We hope to have it available in the summer.

Merry Christmas and all the best for 2015.

Chris, Adrian, Paul and Mike
 

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Christmas Greetings :)
 

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The cutaway P. 1121 image link, forum:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/aircraft-cutaways/p24040-hawker-1121.html

Cutaway P 1121

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/showfull.php?photo=24040
 
That's great news! I'm definitely looking forward to this release. Love the cover. :D
 
Looks great, put me down for one.
 
Get a move on, after years of subtle hints and a final hairy fit to the effect - stop buying me clothes I don't want or like - I got Amazon vouchers across the board for Christmas. So get something published that I can buy.

I am really looking forward to this one the P1121 has always been a favourite of mine.

Regards and Best Wishes to all.
 
As impatient as I am to see your work in print, I would rather see it done right than fast. So take your time, I can take waiting a bit longer.
 
In case anyone notices, this quick mockup has a few typos and is not representative of the final product. He's a drawing I'm editing right now. Question - a former Hawker engineer detests the rivets on the access doors - what is the general feeling?
 

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A long time ago I was taught to draw what I should see, not what I could see - the subject being anatomical drawings of plants and birds. The purpose of the drawing was to show what was there, visibility to the naked eye of those features be hanged.

If the rivets were there, and the drawing's scale permits them being shown along with other details of comparable size that are already included, they should be in the drawing.

<edit> I am impressed with the level of detail in the drawing.
 
The drawing was done by Barrie Hygate so credit goes to him. I am just editing line widths, styles,colours and other aspects of the drawing to make it ready for publication.


Many of his detailed 5 view drawings are best reproduced at A3 size. They may be released as a PDF supplement for purchasers of the book for printing at home - this would be especially interesting for modellers I think.
 
Rivets? Never be seen in the final print at 300dpi so why bother? I gave up rivets years ago, welding is far superior unless it's a steam boiler.

Chris
 
Well, they are already in the drawings, the question is whether to put in the work to take them out.
 
Rather than rivets, to me at any rate, dimensions are more important. Yes, one can scale from an accurately made and printed drawing ...but one shouldn't ;) Rather than just span and length, if there was a drawing with things like fin height, wing root chord, tailplane span etc etc it would make life easier. However, I accept that what I look for in a book, many others wouldn't have any interest in so you'll probably want to disregard all of this....


Martin Simons puts some decent drawings (of the exteriors) in his sailplane books (plenty of fuselage cross-sections and enough dimensions that when the time comes to make something big enough to fly (and fly well), it will look 'right'.


I suppose one can never have too many drawings but there's a finite amount of space for them..?
 
I have drawings like those too. Last teaser for now, honest.
 

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Arjen said:
A long time ago I was taught to draw what I should see, not what I could see - the subject being anatomical drawings of plants and birds. The purpose of the drawing was to show what was there, visibility to the naked eye of those features be hanged.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. This kind of technical illustration is quite different from the classical artistic rendering where you draw what you see, not what you know - the exact opposite.

Barrie Hygate habitually drew small rivet heads, larger Dzus fasteners (access panels are seldom rivetted!) and other such minor features, it was part of his style.

On both counts, it would be a shameful parody to lose them.
 
steelpillow said:
... On both counts, it would be a shameful parody to lose them.
Click to expand...

If the drawing contains such small details like rivets, it usually has to use very fine lines, too.
And if such lines make for good recognizability in the final drawing, is open to question, I think.
And details, that aren't recognisable as such, may even appear as a kind of clutter on the
drawing. But in the Project Tech Profiles series, I've never been aware of such problems ...
but sometimes in other publications, where maybe the author wasn't allowed to participate
in the last layout.
 
Jemiba said:
If the drawing contains such small details like rivets, it usually has to use very fine lines, too.
Click to expand...
I have Hygate's British Experimental Jet Aircraft. Rivets are drawn as tiny dots, fasteners as circles with even tinier centres - only visible under my eyeglass, and some have just blobbed in. Line weights are a little heavy to be ideal, hence the blobbing in, but it makes the printing a lot easier.

When reproducing a monochrome technical drawing, line weights seldom remain constant through the reproduction process and very fine lines can become uneven and even disappear completely. What is drawn with a consistent fine line at say A3 or larger may look very different when finally printed at A4. The end result will be due as much to the artistry and technical prowess of the photography and inking as to those of the original drawing. Avoiding fine lines and accepting a little bleed across tiny gaps can be necessary to ensure consistency throughout the book.

I once knew a graphic artist who did a lot of advertising work. He and his colleagues used to produce the most stunning and subtle artworks, only to see them massacred by the cheap printing processes used for mass advertising.
 
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
I have drawings like those too. Last teaser for now, honest.
Click to expand...


I hope drawings like these make the final edit. If they do, the 1121 may finally fly... ;)
 
Re drawings,
I would suggest keeping all rivet and fastener information but reduce the intensity of the 'blackness' and/or size of the dot on the access door fasteners


Colin
 
Awww... that's not New Zealand summer, is it?
 
No, European summer. Do you still get those? :D


Don't forget these things often slip, but I am pretty confident on getting everything done in the next couple of months.
 
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
No, European summer. Do you still get those? :D
Click to expand...
Summer over here is sunny enough to give us a tan when we're out camping , or just tending the garden :)
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Don't forget these things often slip, but I am pretty confident on getting everything done in the next couple of months.
Click to expand...
Good.
[quote author=Douglas Adams]
I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.
[/quote]
 
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
The drawing was done by Barrie Hygate so credit goes to him. I am just editing line widths, styles,colours and other aspects of the drawing to make it ready for publication.


Many of his detailed 5 view drawings are best reproduced at A3 size. They may be released as a PDF supplement for purchasers of the book for printing at home - this would be especially interesting for modellers I think.
Click to expand...



Paul,


I roundly salute your generous innovation of releasing the drawings as PDFs.


I have hundreds of books of beautiful aircraft drawings, except their usefulness to me as a modeler is restricted by their being bound in those books or even worse, spanning across two pages or "guttered" as a friend in the publishing business put it. The only way to make those bookbound drawings useable is to draw and quarter the precious book, which I am sure most of us are reluctant to do to our treasures.


Go forth and PDF.


Richard
 
CJGibson said:
Rivets? Never be seen in the final print at 300dpi so why bother?

Chris
Click to expand...


First off, I will be buying this book regardless of the final rivet count. As for the reproduction res: line art is burned to the printing plate at high resolution--I don't know what's the current standard, but I'd guess 3600 dpi at least. Even at that, the line art will tend to heavy up. One needs to try and envision the final product, which is not perfectly previewable with modern print tools. Ideally, you can rely on the press supervisor to tell you what's going to look best, line-weight- and dot-size-wise. --Ian
 
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
In case anyone notices, this quick mockup has a few typos and is not representative of the final product. He's a drawing I'm editing right now. Question - a former Hawker engineer detests the rivets on the access doors - what is the general feeling?
Click to expand...
Are they rivets or the fasteners for the access doors. My own experience is that the fasteners show up whereas rivets don't.

BTW, this book is definitely on my "MUST!" list for 2015.
 
I took another couple looks at the last drawing you posted a portion of, it looks like you've got a single-seat version depicted as was as a couple two-seaters, one with tandem seating and one with side-by-side seating. Am I interpreting the clues correctly? Accurate information on those variants could be most useful.
 
Yes there was a tandem twin seater strike version designed to GOR.339, and a side by side twin seater naval strike fighter. The first version, there are multiple drawings and two brochures documenting it, the naval strike fighter is documented only in minor mentions and a drawing.
 
It would be nice if the other Blue Envoy Press publications weren't out of print/stock. Any chance of reruns?
 
Out of stock? That's Amazonese for 'Can't be arsed keeping it in stock or ordering any.'

They are also available from The Aviation Bookshop (Kent), Aviation Book Centre (Warks) and Word Power (Edinburgh)

Cross my palm with silver and you can have them all direct.

Chris
 

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