"Harpoon missile meets 40-year milestone" video by Boeing
Uploaded: Oct 5, 2011
http://youtu.be/-HSszSESmB0
Uploaded: Oct 5, 2011
http://youtu.be/-HSszSESmB0
Harpoon missile
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Mods please delete if felt inappropriate. Not surprising as they were due to leave UK service next year anyway.
Airstrike hits Odessa as Boris wants to arm Ukraine to defend city
Explosions rocked Odessa after a Russian airstrike this morning as the Prime Minister has told his Cabinet he wanted to kit out Kyiv's navy and coastal defenses to fend off Russian ships.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Dilandu
I'm dissatisfied, which means, I exist.
Frankly, I was unaware that UK operates coastal Harpoon missiles. Or they are trying to give the shipborne launchers removed from warships?
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Seems to be shipborne.
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I recalled an old brochure of Harpoon promotions.. the seeker emits 34 KW with some watts of average power. just wow.
It might look big but i feel its reasonable with very short pulses and low duty cycle.
It might look big but i feel its reasonable with very short pulses and low duty cycle.
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Sounds a bit fanciful to me, it's not going to be as easy as sticking a couple of launcher-canisters on the ground, still needs some form of acquisition radar and fire-control.
Anyway being US-brought presumably Washington would have to approve the re-export.
Anyway being US-brought presumably Washington would have to approve the re-export.
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It’s now confirmed.
Ukraine: Johnson pledges aid to Zelensky in Kyiv meeting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61052643
Britain to send anti-ship missiles and armoured vehicles to Ukraine
To ensure the protection of Ukrainian troops as Vladimir Putin's invasion ramps up, Britain will provide armoured vehicles which can withstand explosive devices, rockets and rifle fire.
www.dailymail.co.uk
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Just to be clear Harpoon is not confirmed...anti-ship missiles have been, but what that actually entails is another thing...It’s now confirmed.
Ukraine: Johnson pledges aid to Zelensky in Kyiv meeting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61052643
Britain to send anti-ship missiles and armoured vehicles to Ukraine
To ensure the protection of Ukrainian troops as Vladimir Putin's invasion ramps up, Britain will provide armoured vehicles which can withstand explosive devices, rockets and rifle fire.www.dailymail.co.uk
kaiserd
I really should change my personal text
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The Sea Venom (the missile) & Martlet (the 2 new missiles for the Wildcat) would also appear to be potential candidates for supply (rather than Harpoons).
In theory could even be retired Sea Skuas (the missile), Mavericks (unlikely UK didn’t sell these back to the US when the Harrier GR.9 retired) or garbled references to Brimstones being used in a anti-ship role (?).
Does the Ukraine have anything (fixed wing aircraft, helicopter, ship) that can readily carry & fire any of these UK and US missiles (I think the likeliest answer is “No”) or would it have to a standalone shore based system (and does the UK have any of those to give?)?
In theory could even be retired Sea Skuas (the missile), Mavericks (unlikely UK didn’t sell these back to the US when the Harrier GR.9 retired) or garbled references to Brimstones being used in a anti-ship role (?).
Does the Ukraine have anything (fixed wing aircraft, helicopter, ship) that can readily carry & fire any of these UK and US missiles (I think the likeliest answer is “No”) or would it have to a standalone shore based system (and does the UK have any of those to give?)?
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Martlet would probably be the logistical choice as they already have Starstreaks - but unless they are planning to purely engage RHIBs it makes no sense as it lacks any punch as an anti-ship weapon.
Brimstone seemed to be a concept connected to those missile boats we were going to build for them - but it was all very vague what missiles they would carry. And of course MBDA trying to develop the mods would take time.
Sea Skua could be surface launched, seems unlikely but if there are stocks gathering dust it saves us decommissioning and scrapping them. Even so, some kind of launcher would need to be lashed up (I think Oman or UAE had some FAC-fired Sea Skuas a long time ago). Never heard of it being used without a Seaspray radar for airborne use though. Not sure what, if any, Ukrainian aircraft/choppers could use it.
Harpoon also seems unlikely, just because the time it would take to develop a truck-launcher and interface with whatever shore-based radar they have.
As kaiserd says, we just don't have any multirole SSMs that are not air-launched and which need integrating with airborne radars.
Guess we'll just have to see what turns up.
Brimstone seemed to be a concept connected to those missile boats we were going to build for them - but it was all very vague what missiles they would carry. And of course MBDA trying to develop the mods would take time.
Sea Skua could be surface launched, seems unlikely but if there are stocks gathering dust it saves us decommissioning and scrapping them. Even so, some kind of launcher would need to be lashed up (I think Oman or UAE had some FAC-fired Sea Skuas a long time ago). Never heard of it being used without a Seaspray radar for airborne use though. Not sure what, if any, Ukrainian aircraft/choppers could use it.
Harpoon also seems unlikely, just because the time it would take to develop a truck-launcher and interface with whatever shore-based radar they have.
As kaiserd says, we just don't have any multirole SSMs that are not air-launched and which need integrating with airborne radars.
Guess we'll just have to see what turns up.
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View: https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmcleary/status/1512841964193869828Just to be clear Harpoon is not confirmed...anti-ship missiles have been, but what that actually entails is another thing...It’s now confirmed.
Ukraine: Johnson pledges aid to Zelensky in Kyiv meeting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61052643
Britain to send anti-ship missiles and armoured vehicles to Ukraine
To ensure the protection of Ukrainian troops as Vladimir Putin's invasion ramps up, Britain will provide armoured vehicles which can withstand explosive devices, rockets and rifle fire.www.dailymail.co.uk
D
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Sub-Harpoon is exceedingly unlikely to have any kind of radar-lock before launch so I'm sure the Harpoon family must have some kind of immediately-terminal mode available that any defenders of Odesa, say, can make use of. They are unlikely to be concerned about blue-on-blue under the circumstances so any grey thing in the pickle barrel it hits will do.....
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At minimum, Harpoon does have a bearing-only launch mode. But in BOL, it will literally target the first ship-like thing it sees, which might explain the Russian Navy preference for making neutral merchants lead the way for them.
NATO MEMBER OWNED SHIP SINKS OFF ODESA - Russia Used Civilian Ship As A Human Shield
UPDATE: “The Estonian-owned cargo ship Helt SUNK on Thursday off the Ukrainian port of Odesa after an explosion,” Igor Ilves, managing director of Tallinn-based manager Vista Shipping Agency, told Reuters. “Two crew members...
gcaptain.com
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and have the launchers issue ben solved ? Or The England will make an ad-hoc launcher using ground vehicles ?
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View: https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmcleary/status/1512841964193869828Just to be clear Harpoon is not confirmed...anti-ship missiles have been, but what that actually entails is another thing...It’s now confirmed.
Ukraine: Johnson pledges aid to Zelensky in Kyiv meeting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61052643
Britain to send anti-ship missiles and armoured vehicles to Ukraine
To ensure the protection of Ukrainian troops as Vladimir Putin's invasion ramps up, Britain will provide armoured vehicles which can withstand explosive devices, rockets and rifle fire.www.dailymail.co.uk
Seriously it has not been confirmed as Harpoon. Lots of people claiming it has, but you'll find zero serious defence sources or official confirmation. No details have been released. Smart money is on Brimstone as a coastal defence system, the Ukrainian's were buying it anyway.
The UK would also need to see US approval to send Harpoon and have a suitable launch method...now unless the Dane's have stored those old land launchers it would need to be a jury rigged system...which would probably require a test in the UK first..of which there have been none...
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Did it before with Exocet Excalibur...but its really unlikely to be Harpoon, more likely Sea Spear (Brimstone).
Nobody is saying.
It seems the will is there to supply anti-ship missiles but how to do it is an open issue or at least an issue not openly discussed.
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As of today we know that Martlet is in Ukraine, and in action, it shot down a Russian Orlan UAV this morning on film.
Sea Skua could still be in depots, only retired a short while ago so they may not have been disposed of yet, might even be awaiting stripping for spares to support the nations that are continuing to use it. There was a land based version marketed at one point...truck mounted with radar and 4 missiles all on one platform. A really sensible system that naturally got zero sales...
But...I'm near 100% certain it will be Brimstone/Sea Spear. It was actually confirmed that Brimstone was the missile going on the Ukrainian missile boats by the UK Military Attache in Kiev.. as for modifications, MBDA must have the details from the test series that killed a load of boats off Wales a few years ago, they still market it. The launcher was a frame supporting an aircraft triple launch rack, no reason why they can't just do the same again, plenty of triple racks around following Tornado retirement.
I don't understand this reluctance to see them as Harpoon. Harpoon were in the Royal navy inventory (ship launch). Ukrainians might got an opportunity to get their hands on a pair of surface launchers or targeting equipments. They got plenty of credits from their generous lenders to offer some good cash to a seller and many operators are willing to donate equipments. Then it's also not far fetched to think at an adaptation kit for their Neptune launcher. At least the length and mass are compatible.
Geostrategically it will force back the Russian Navy in the sea of Azov into a fluvial navy. Given also the nbr of merchant ships hit so far, a bit of sophistication introduced b/w the belligerent will simply raise the odds of those still attempting to sail those waters to get all the necessary goods that the world still need.
Img source:
Geostrategically it will force back the Russian Navy in the sea of Azov into a fluvial navy. Given also the nbr of merchant ships hit so far, a bit of sophistication introduced b/w the belligerent will simply raise the odds of those still attempting to sail those waters to get all the necessary goods that the world still need.
Img source:
Mk-141 Missile Launching System GMLS RGM-84 Harpoon SSM
mk-141 missile launching system gmls rgm-84 harpoon ssm navy
www.seaforces.org
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The reluctance might be because it has not been officially announced yet. moreover, as has already been mentioned, the sale or gifting of Harpoons will require US Govt Approval.
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Very interesting picture. At first I thought, "how the hell are they supposed to launch Terrier/ RIM-67 with Harpoon in the way". Then realized it was Long Beach after Talos had been deactivated. Harpoon was mounted there for a while, then they moved them to the superstructure and installed a pair of Tomahawk launchers in their place.I don't understand this reluctance to see them as Harpoon. Harpoon were in the Royal navy inventory (ship launch). Ukrainians might got an opportunity to get their hands on a pair of surface launchers or targeting equipments. They got plenty of credits from their generous lenders to offer some good cash to a seller and many operators are willing to donate equipments. Then it's also not far fetched to think at an adaptation kit for their Neptune launcher. At least the length and mass are compatible.
Geostrategically it will force back the Russian Navy in the sea of Azov into a fluvial navy. Given also the nbr of merchant ships hit so far, a bit of sophistication introduced b/w the belligerent will simply raise the odds of those still attempting to sail those waters to get all the necessary goods that the world still need.
Img source:
Mk-141 Missile Launching System GMLS RGM-84 Harpoon SSM
mk-141 missile launching system gmls rgm-84 harpoon ssm navywww.seaforces.org
D
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Why would they block it? These are pretty superannuated variants under discussion here and we are in this together aren't we? [wry laughter]
Me too. Obviously I'm not privy to what's on the table but I've seen no show-stoppers here or elsewhere for Harpoon. Again, Sub-Harpoon is cued to it's target with little more than a (potentially and understandably vague) bearing and distance and seems to manage. I'm sure that much could be provided here! I'm also sure that the end-user won't be overly upset if two missiles engage the same target on occasion. That might even be preferred in some instances.
I don't see Harpoon's range to be an issue. I envision engagement ranges to be quite short and targets largely on-coming. I also don't see Harpoon's relative lack of speed/supposed general obsolescence as an issue. If you are evading/chaffing/c-whizzing, you are not landing vehicles and you can only do those for so long before something gives.
I think the larger issue is some pundits are in pursuit of the perfect/latest/greatest whereas I am sure those in a theatre that shall be nameless will readily accept the good enough. The good enough could well be Harpoon. It's better than a kick in the teeth!
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Did I say they would block it?? The basic fact is that the Harpoons would have been either acquired under either a Foreign Military Sale
(FMS) or an ITAR controlled Direct Commercial Sale (DCS), most likely the former. To then pass them onto Ukraine will therefore require a Third Party Retransfer (TPR) Agreement. It's basic Defense Export Control. Hence why I stated that "the sale or gifting of Harpoons will require US Govt Approval".
D
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Alright. Calm down. Perhaps you shouldn't have used the phrase "moreover" which links the 2nd part of your sentence with the "reluctance might be" 1st part.
Never realized Long Beach got those missiles. Also is that two CIWS mounts? I wouldn't have thought that would even work.Very interesting picture. At first I thought, "how the hell are they supposed to launch Terrier/ RIM-67 with Harpoon in the way". Then realized it was Long Beach after Talos had been deactivated. Harpoon was mounted there for a while, then they moved them to the superstructure and installed a pair of Tomahawk launchers in their place.I don't understand this reluctance to see them as Harpoon. Harpoon were in the Royal navy inventory (ship launch). Ukrainians might got an opportunity to get their hands on a pair of surface launchers or targeting equipments. They got plenty of credits from their generous lenders to offer some good cash to a seller and many operators are willing to donate equipments. Then it's also not far fetched to think at an adaptation kit for their Neptune launcher. At least the length and mass are compatible.
Geostrategically it will force back the Russian Navy in the sea of Azov into a fluvial navy. Given also the nbr of merchant ships hit so far, a bit of sophistication introduced b/w the belligerent will simply raise the odds of those still attempting to sail those waters to get all the necessary goods that the world still need.
Img source:
Mk-141 Missile Launching System GMLS RGM-84 Harpoon SSM
mk-141 missile launching system gmls rgm-84 harpoon ssm navywww.seaforces.org
View attachment 676728
View attachment 676729
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Why not? There must already be some mechanism to ensure that multiple close-by Phalanx don't interfere with each other. These are a little closer together than, say, the battleships, but not that much.
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An agreement has been signed, but I don't think anything substantive has happened yet. The Polish Government han't decided on the tank destroyer programme yet. Brimstone would appear to be in a strong position. I suspect the Poles will be looking at that programme with greater urgency now that Russia has stepped up the threat and rhetoric.
This is a reasonable point. All Western Allies will want to provide is a coastal defence system. Killing a ship on the horizon is as far as they will want to go. Knocking out the Russian Black Sea Fleet off Sevastapol is probably seen as escalatory, no matter how desirable it might be. Firing Harpoon without mid course updates won't really be a problem at all. All that is required is to keep Russian vessels out of bombardment range, stop an amphibious landing and prevent Russian minesweepers clearing swept channels. 25 mile range would be fine for that. That would still have an important strategic role as it would allow the Ukrainian's to free up forces in the Odessa region to move forward to Kherson and beyond. The threat of such a system would be sufficient to curtail Russian activity.
A mobile system would also be useful to move with the troops to prevent any Russian attempt (however unlikely) to flank them with a landing, or to bombard, particularly if the Ukrainian's can get over the Dnipro. The ideal weapon for this wouldn't be Harpoon, but the Sea Skua truck mounted variant...or...truck or tripod mounted Brimstone/Sea Spear. It''s what the Swedes use Hellfire for in their littorals. Mind you...the temptation to get Brimstone over there for surface launch for other purposes must be pretty strong...
kaiserd
I really should change my personal text
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Is there a truck based Harpoon system (missile and targeting, etc.) currently available to be handed over to the Ukrainians or would improvisation be required (and realistically how easily done given Ukrainians aren’t going to have the option of much testing or training)?
Dilandu
I'm dissatisfied, which means, I exist.
As far as I know, Britain did not have coastal Harpoon batteries. So most likely they would just send launchers dismounted from ships (most likely put into transport containers), with some jury-rigged fire control system.
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Boeing just signed a contract (in early March) to supply truck-launched Harpoon to Taiwan. So a current (Edit: or near-future) production capability exists. But the UK doesn't have that system in hand, so it seems likely that at least some improvisation will be required.
OTOH, for the suspicious-minded, a few days later the US informed Taiwan that there will be a year delay in delivering their Harpoons for "operational" reasons. But note that initial Taiwanese deliveries were still scheduled for 2024, so its not like the US is just redirecting existing launchers.
Boeing to provide Harpoon launchers for Taiwan, DoD confirms | Shephard
Taiwan will receive launchers, radar trucks and training for the Harpoon Coastal Defense System.
www.shephardmedia.com
The U.S. Delays Delivery of Harpoon Coastal Defense System to Taiwan - Naval Post- Naval News and Information
Taiwan is unlikely to take delivery of the Harpoon Coastal Defense System in 2024 after the United States informs Taiwan that Boeing can only start delivery of equipment in 2025, according to Taiwanese Up Media.
navalpost.com
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Denmark had the only systems, served from 1988, it was retired in 2005. No-one knows if it was scrapped or put into storage.
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Type 88 (SSM-1) not Harpoon.
Forest Green
ACCESS: Above Top Secret
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So NATO said to Russia, "remove the naval blockade so the world can eat."
Russia said, "remove the sanctions first."
NATO said:
www.yahoo.com
Russia said, "remove the sanctions first."
NATO said:
Exclusive-U.S. aims to arm Ukraine with advanced anti-ship missiles to fight Russian blockade
The White House is working to put advanced anti-ship missiles in the hands of Ukrainian fighters to help defeat Russia's naval blockade, officials said, amid concerns more powerful weapons that could sink Russian warships would intensify the conflict. Ukraine has made no secret it wants more...
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"Two U.S. officials said the United States was working on potential solutions that included pulling a launcher off of a U.S. ship."
Both Harpoon and NSM are available in land-launch. Why do they think they need to "pull launchers from ships"? (As if that would even work.)
Both Harpoon and NSM are available in land-launch. Why do they think they need to "pull launchers from ships"? (As if that would even work.)
As we have seen earlier (probably a locked thread), not many ground launchers were produced or still available. Only a few countries are potentially capable of delivering such items (Denmark or UK).
My guess is that this story is more an alibi.
My guess is that this story is more an alibi.
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