Getting the best mileage from Jaguar program?

red admiral said:
Since this previous thread, then there's been more info on historical Jaguar developments (e.g. in Gibson's Typhoon to Typhoon), or in what I assume we're the source documents used for this. Variants with a single RB.199 (e.g. EAG8662) looked really attractive in terms of performance (roughly double the range, half the take off distance) and cost (similar UPC to basic Jaguar), and feasibility (potentially just rear fuselage change, built on existing jigs)

This feels like a pretty sensible answer to AST.396 (along with AIM-9L/ASRAAM and later HMS for the A2A side) and about 30 years earlier than Typhoon.
Click to expand...
As always, the RB.199 powered Jaguar spin-off gets my vote.
Should've took a lot of 'cake' from Dassault (he-he), and probably from the Americans, Soviets (India?) and Russians from the 1990.
 
red admiral said:
Since this previous thread, then there's been more info on historical Jaguar developments (e.g. in Gibson's Typhoon to Typhoon), or in what I assume we're the source documents used for this. Variants with a single RB.199 (e.g. EAG8662) looked really attractive in terms of performance (roughly double the range, half the take off distance) and cost (similar UPC to basic Jaguar), and feasibility (potentially just rear fuselage change, built on existing jigs)

This feels like a pretty sensible answer to AST.396 (along with AIM-9L/ASRAAM and later HMS for the A2A side) and about 30 years earlier than Typhoon.
Click to expand...
Oh, nice! Especially half the takeoff distance.
 
And engine commonality with the Tornado fleet ! Fun fact: the Jaguar's Adour was a scaled down RB-172, also known as M45 and "AFVG turbofan". A family of engines that indirectly led to the RB.199... how about a Jaguar with a single RB.172 ?
 
Archibald said:
And engine commonality with the Tornado fleet ! Fun fact: the Jaguar's Adour was a scaled down RB-172, also known as M45 and "AFVG turbofan". A family of engines that indirectly led to the RB.199... how about a Jaguar with a single RB.172 ?
Click to expand...
HSA just entered the chat
;)
 
Archibald said:
And engine commonality with the Tornado fleet ! Fun fact: the Jaguar's Adour was a scaled down RB-172, also known as M45 and "AFVG turbofan". A family of engines that indirectly led to the RB.199... how about a Jaguar with a single RB.172 ?
Click to expand...
And of course if your engine bay will take an RB.199 it will also take an EJ200....
 
Archibald said:
And engine commonality with the Tornado fleet ! Fun fact: the Jaguar's Adour was a scaled down RB-172, also known as M45 and "AFVG turbofan". A family of engines that indirectly led to the RB.199... how about a Jaguar with a single RB.172 ?
Click to expand...

What do we know about the RB.172?
 
Originally RB.172 was a new all-RR military turbofan embodying their views on modular design as had been developed in partnership with MTU on the Anglo-German RB.153.

This was about similar power to the RB.153 but developed further.

In order to provide twin engines for the supersonic trainer, RR scaled down this design and it's this scaled version that became the Adour.
 
Archibald said:
And engine commonality with the Tornado fleet ! Fun fact: the Jaguar's Adour was a scaled down RB-172, also known as M45 and "AFVG turbofan". A family of engines that indirectly led to the RB.199... how about a Jaguar with a single RB.172 ?
Click to expand...

Sounds similar to replacing 2xJ85s with 1xF404 in the F-5E/F-20 ......
 
The proposed Honeywell F125IN for India's Jaguars shows that the Garrett TFE1042-70 (aka F125-GA-100) as developed for the F-CK-1 Ching-kuo back in the 1970s might have fit in the engine bays and have provided much improved performance over the Adours.
(The non-afterburning F124 was proposed for the Hawk LIFT/T-45 Goshawk a few times too).
 
Here's an image of the proposed revision of the Jaguar's wings.
FPBpa5J.jpg
 
JudgeKing said:
Here's an image of the proposed revision of the Jaguar's wings.
Click to expand...

Bigger wing would've been a good thing for the Jaguar, the existing wing was pretty small and thin.
Small & thin wing was good if one wants outright speed, but not so much when the good/great payload was the order of the day, and with expected use of impromptu strips in case when WP comes in knocking.
 
Smaller wing also good for low level buffeting which is a mantra that comes back repeatedly.

A much smoother ride for the crew. TSR-2 also had a small wing in the design ethos.
 
Foo Fighter said:
Smaller wing also good for low level buffeting which is a mantra that comes back repeatedly.

A much smoother ride for the crew. TSR-2 also had a small wing in the design ethos.
Click to expand...

TSR-2 have had the blown flaps to help out with taking off with great take-off weights. No such thing on the Jaguar.
 
I am talking about low level flight, not taking off and landing.
 
I'm trying to point out that TSR-2 with small wing worked because it used advanced and very efficient way of improving the lift of the wings at low speeds.
 
Warton redesigned the wing to make it thinner for higher speed because the RAF wanted supersonic performance.
But the Jaguar had decent field performance so it wasn't a big issue. The problem was air combat and insufficient lift, which the increased area wings were designed to offset (plus additional engine thrust).
Getting modified wings could have happened but other priorities came to the fore.
 

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