German Atomic Bombs in WW2

[Lockon]

Hi all,

I was doing some reading on a web site that happen to say that the German's where working on Proyected Atomic Bombs aournd 3 to 4 different types.................is this right or is it just a what-if thing?

If anyone has any info or drawings.............I would love to see them!.

And if anyone would know the size of them if would be nice to know aswell.

Lockon

 

[dannydale]

I'm not sure...if Germany's atom bomb program got...off the ground.

 

[Orionblamblam]

There is a *lot* of information floating around regarding WWII German atom bomb designs. One problem: the vast bulk of that information is PURE BULLSHIT.

The short form is: Heisenberg, either knowingly or unknowingly, made a mess of the Nazi A-bomb program. They were *far* from a bomb, and they were far from even having the right idea of how to even design a proper bomb.

The "Nazi A-Bomb" is a field of study as filled with fiction as the "Nazi flying saucer" field.

 

[Barrington Bond]

Look no further than the Littleboy bomb! According to the book I read (boy did my sides ache while reading that one...) it was a Nazi weapon that the Americans didn't need to test (like Fatman) because it had already been tested! It also mentioned the Japanese testing their own bomb in Korea...

One little translation problem gave me a small chuckle - the Singer "Antipodes" bomber...

Regards,
Barry

 

[Jemiba]

Some time ago there were some stories about "A-bomb tests during WW II
in Thuringia/Germany", but AFAIK the best description of it is the one given
by Orionblamblam ! ;D
But I think, boxkite can give more first-hand details about this affair .

 

[archipeppe]

Some time ago there were some stories about "A-bomb tests during WW II
in Thuringia/Germany", but AFAIK the best description of it is the one given
by Orionblamblam ! ;D
But I think, boxkite can give more first-hand details about this affair .

It was originated by an Italian journalist, Luigi Romersa, he claimed (in several books, articles and interviews) to be eyewitness of, at least, an atomic test in Rugen island (near Peenemunde).
He also claimed to be sent by Mussolini to make a report about the new (at that times) top secret weapons of Nazi Germany.

I've read his book that skillfully mixes reality (Me 162 and 262, Arado Blitz and others) with nonsense like V7, Vril and also Nazi A Bombs.

Finally, I full agree on what Scott writes about that....

 

[Michel Van]

the Internet is full of PURE BULLSHIT about Nazi A-bomb

let see some of littel facts who are real.

The Real Facts:
The Nazi had next to Heisenberg "Uranprojekt" also Several A-bomb Project
(several German TV Doku co worker of Heisenberg like Friedrich von Weizsäcker und Karl Wirtz
say "yes we [III Reich] workt on Atomic Bomb")

the Heereswaffenamt had one H-bomb Program.

one "Uranverein" under Command of Herman Göring Reichsluftfahrtministerium

most of them are from SS under command of Dr Hans Kammler
(He in charge of the V-2 missile, the Mittelwerk facility, Messerschmitt Me 262 programme.)
but he was also „Sonderbeauftragter des Führers für Strahlenwaffen“
"Envoy of the Fuhrers for Energy Weapons"

According to a statement by Werner Grothmann, the Chefadjutanten Heinrich Himmler,
had Kammlers since 1943 a Coordinating Buro for the SS's nuclear program.

In 1943 Burkhard Heim met Heisenberg and told him of his plan to use chemical implosion to facilitate an atomic explosion.
This design was based on his idea he developed for a 'clean' hydrogen bomb when Heim was 18.
Heisenberg was impressed by Heim's knowledge, but thought the approach would be impractical.

After 1944 July 22 all Nucklear programs came in hands of SS and Obergruppenführer Kammler

In autumn 1944 talks were held between the Leiter der Einsatzleitung Heeresartillerieabteilung 709,
Lieutenant Colonel Tröller, and SS-Obergruppenführer Kammler on the use of rocket-»Rheinbote«
for a nuclear payload. !

in 1945 March 4 happens a very big exposion on Military training ground in Ohrdruf (Thuringia)
a lot People were witnesses to the explosion outside the Military training ground
an say it was the bigges they sah on that trainig ground ever.

At the Nuremberg Trials in 1946 Nazi munitions minister Albert Speer was questioned by prosecutors about the Ohrdruf blast.

in 1952, Erich Schumann, Hans Winkhaus, and Walter Trinks, three war-time members of the Heereswaffenamt, tried to get patents for the shaped charge thermonuclear fusion bomb that the Heereswaffenamt had been researching on during the war !

those info are not Confirmed, but Fits with first recording.

Not Confirmed data
On 1944 October 12 was on the peninsula Rügener a gigantic explosion.
observes by SS and diplomats from Italy, Japan (inside a Bunker)
the SS explane to diplomats, this one of the new "Wunderwaffen"
so Luigi Romersa a Italian Reporter after some interview with Italy Diplomats

after Rainer Karlsch was on the peninsula Rügener the SS test with success a A-bomb

in 1945 March 4 SS-Obergruppenführer Kammler is one of the observers at a small nuclear test
on Military training ground in Ohrdruf (Thuringia).
On the following day (March 5), he gave Heinrich Himmler in Hohenlychen personaly report about it.

Source
in 2005 the book "HITLERS BOMBE" by Rainer Karlsch is publish
ISBN 3-421-05809-1 (sorry only in german Language, but good source)
It hit the German Historian like A-bomb ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitlers_Bombe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_energy_project


my Analyses:
the German have bulid radiological weapon (a dirty bomb) not a A-bomb or H-bomb
see Kammler demands for rocket-»Rheinbote« for a nuclear payload.
This Missile ist to smal for carring a Nuke, but can bring deadly radiactive dust to enermy.

wat about the SS test on the peninsula Rügener and in Ohrdruf ?

wen Rügene Test were real
I think that in Rügene the SS fool the Diplomats with Propoganda
that was no A-Bomb but big Pile of Explosive.

however the Ohrdruf explosion not fit in that Propoganda "stunt"
ca be that SS testet another wapon a Thermobaric weapon ? (aka vacuum bombs or fuel-air munitions)

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi,

I have five different reasons to think that there was no Nazi A-Bomb.

1. German scientists did not believe that the A-Bomb could be manufactured with the means available within the III Reich.
2. When they were in prison in England after the war in Europe, they were extraordinarily surprised to know about the Hiroshima explosion
3. All the realistic efforts made on nuclear research in wartime were aimed to obtain a power source to propel submarines. The nuclear reactors (Uran Maschinen) of Dahlem and Haigerloch were built to that purpose.
4. The supposed ‘error’ of Heisenberg regarding the required amount of uranium for the bomb, was undoubtedly intentional.
The reason is that there was not enough uranium in the III Reich to make this type of research credible. The small stocks of the mineral -captured in Belgium- and of pechblenda -extracted from the Bohemia mines-, should be refined in a big industrial facility that was to be constructed with a budget of just 350,000 Reichmarks!
Besides, all reserves of pure graphite were to be kept for the nozzle rudders of the V-2.
5. The German scientific authorities of the time were not very bright in general and, in great part, owed their academic position to the expulsion of many scientific Jews. The “quanta” theory and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle were difficult to understand and believe for them. Would they dare to ask Herr Hitler to forget the V-Weapons in favor of an extremely expensive project that could very easily not work?
6. As for the tests performed in Rügener, they might have well been on a fuel-air bomb designed to disable the Allies ‘boxes’ of bombers.
The spray was formed by different combinations of coal powder, hydrogen, ethylene, petrol, Butan-Propane 50/50 and the “Myrol” compound based on vinylic ethers and aluminum powder.
As per some authors, the gases derived from the combustion were toxic and violated the Geneva Convention agreements, something that the Germans of 1945 could not afford, having their own cities exposed to hundred of Allied bombers.

 

[Orionblamblam]

4. The supposed ‘error’ of Heisenberg regarding the required amount of uranium for the bomb, was undoubtedly intentional.

Since Heisenberg never made it plain, it's impossible to say. However, given that Heisenberg went from "a small bomb is impossible" to "here's how you design a small bomb" in very short order after the announcement of Hiroshime, it's a good possibility. A discussion of this:
http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/nuclear/mg13518370.300

The crucial period in the Farm Hall documents covers the days just after the bombing of Hiroshima. Walther Gerlach, a physicist from Munich who was officially in charge of German research on uranium, acted like 'a defeated general', according to another interned scientist, Max von Laue. Later that night, Heisenberg and Otto Hahn of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute in Berlin discussed Gerlach's reaction. Heisenberg told Hahn that 'Gerlach was the only one of them who had really wanted a German victory'.

The conversation then took a remarkable turn as Heisenberg told Hahn how one might build an atomic bomb. He described how a sphere of uranium-235 with a diameter of 54 centimetres, weighing about a tonne, could sustain a chain reaction of 80 collisions, using 'very fast neutrons', generating 1024 neutrons. But only a quarter of a tonne would be necessary, he said, if the uranium were covered with a 'reflector'. The bombs could be made to explode at the right moment by bringing together two halves which were too small to generate a chain reaction when separated.

Also, regarding actual Nazi-nuke designs, here's about the best I've seen:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/03/nazi_nuke_sketch/

A German historian who controversially claims that the Nazis tested a nuclear device in 1945 has now unearthed a sketch of a "Nazi nuke", as the BBC puts it.

Rainer Karlsch's book Hitlers Bombe (Hitler's Bomb) rather sensationally suggests that German scientists detonated several nuclear bombs, the last in Thuringia on 3 March 1945. According to Karlsch, this destroyed around 500 square miles and killed several hundred POWs and concentration camp inmates.
....
The new sketch - discovered in an undated report on German wartime nuclear research believed to have been compiled shortly after the end of the war in Europe - appears to show a plutonium device. Karlsch admits that the drawing is a simple schematic and does not prove the Nazis were building, or close to building a similar device.

It must be noted that this is a *post* *war* sketch, which means US/UK nuke knowledge could be a part of it... and I'm not sure if the provenance of the sketch in question ahs ever really been confirmed.

 

[Michel Van]

the German Atomic Bomb program was a total Chaos

a dosend groups work with differed approach and against each other
Army, Airforce and SS
only 22 July 1944 all of those Programs came under SS-order of Dr Hans Kammler

another problem was Heavy Water D2O for experiment
the only source for Nazi was in Norway
but British agents destroy the Factory in James Bond style :
and sank a Boat with last cargo of D2O
(the D2O for Manhattan program came from Canada)

Belgium and Uran
in WW2 there was only one country selling Uran to open market: Belgium
better say its form they colony Kongo

the Uran for Manhattan Project came from Belgium Kongo.

note on Belgium in WW2
the country was divided two parts
the Pro Nazi (most nederlands Vlaamish) and Resistance (most french Wallon)

i demand my self could be that Belgium Pro Nazi
manage to get some Uran from Kongo for SS A-bomb program ?

 

[Speedy]

Hi

I have some "chemical" comments about:

i demand my self could be that Belgium Pro Nazi
manage to get some Uran from Kongo for SS A-bomb program ?

There's no problem to get metallic uranium. It isn't very rare metal. Germans controlled some uranium ore mines in Europe, for example in Czechoslovakia and Poland.
But to get metallic uranium is far far not enough for bomb. Natural uranium is a mix of uranium isotopes: main is U238 (about 99,3%), incapable of chain reaction and only about 0,7% is U235, needed for nuclear technology purposes. For uranium bomb it's necessary to get material containing about 90% or more of U235, so-called "enriched uranium". To obtain this, a special processing is needed, namely "enrichment" or isotope separation process. These process are most difficult processes in chemical industry, because of chemical and physical properties of isotopes are almost identical and it's very tricky to invent a method that could use these minor differences for separation. For Manhattan Project Americans build a big factory in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, that was city-size and consuming enormous amount of electric power (more than New York city). Nazis simply can't build similar factory in top-secrecy and they are also short of electric power.
Other way is to enriched uranium only to some percent (2-3% U235) level and using this as nuclear fuel in reactor. One of by-products arising in the "burning" process is a plutonium, namely Pu239 isotope, that also could be used as nuclear explosive (it's even better than U235).(There is one more problem with Pu240 isotope but my English is a little too poor to explain this). And extracting plutonium from used fuel elements is much easier than isotope separation process. But Germans also can't build fully functioning nuclear reactor. And even if they could run reactor in the end period of war there was no time to arise enough plutonium for bomb.

 

[McTodd]

There's an almost equal amount of rubbish that's been published in recent years about a Japanese A-bomb, even including frankly unbelievable claims that they detonated one off the Korean coast in August 1945. These claims seem to be politically motivated by a desire to assuage the guilt of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by 'proving' that a race for the Bomb was on with Japan.

Oneof the worst offenders is Robert Wilcox, and his political motivation is clear from this interview quote (http://greyfalcon.us/the%20U.htm):

Japan has always been looked at as the victim of the bomb. And so a lot of people didn't like the book. To be very base about it, there is a whole liberal element that does not want Japan to look like anything but the victim. But the fact is the Japanese tried very hard to make the bomb and would have dropped it.

One of the most persistent, and annoying, claims involves the Germans and the submarine U234, with which I suspect most here will be familiar. Typical is this webpage (http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/u234.html).

This quote is priceless:

The Uranium carried by U-234 was allegedly enough to make two atomic bombs, 1235 pounds of 77 percent pure uranium oxide, it was destined for the Japanese atomic bomb programme. The U-235 (Uranium-235) was taken away to Los Alamos, forming part of the payload of the bomb that fell on Hiroshima. So, the uranium intended for the production of a Japanese Bomb arrived in due course, but in a way no person in Japan could have imagined in his wildest nightmares!

 

[Trident]

Generally, I agree with Orionblamblam's view. Regarding supposed nuclear tests in Germany, would certain fission products with a long half-life not be traceable at the alleged sites even today?

 

[Orionblamblam]

Generally, I agree with Orionblamblam's view. Regarding supposed nuclear tests in Germany, would certain fission products with a long half-life not be traceable at the alleged sites even today?

You damned betcha. The Trinity Test Site in New Mexico is open for visitors for *one* *day* *per* *year.* That's because the place is still radioactive (this sorta thing happens when you pop off a nuke within a few dozen feet of the ground, close enough to activate the *dirt*), and will remain so for quite a long time. Had the Japanese set off a nuke in Korea, or the Germans nuked some Baltic island, there'd be no hiding it.

 

[Artie Bob]

There is actually some pretty good published material on the WWII German nuclear programs, often lost in the myths and misinformation pile of cxxp of . To give an accurate detailed analysis would take a lot more space than I believe is available here.
But, here are a few items that IMHO can be documented pretty well.

1. Making a fission bomb is not tremendously difficult. Making a compact high yield device is considerably more difficult.
2. Producing fissile grade material is extremely difficult. As we used to say, "If it were easy everybody would do it!". The reason the number of nuclear club members has not grown a lot larger is probably the result of number 2 and the reason that neither the German or Japanese programs really got very far.
3. It is pretty certain that Heisenberg really did want to make a bomb, acccording to documents now available from archives of Bohr, Heisenberg's mentor. It was probably the offer for Bohr (an offer which he might not have been able to refuse) to assist Heisenberg on a Nazi bomb that precipitated his departure from Europe in the middle of the war. Heisenberg, although a brilliant theorist, was apparently not at the same level as an experimenter. Bohr's other protege, Enrico Fermi, was that rare combination of a brilliant theorist and a innovative hands on experimenter. The USA got the better of this pair when he fled Italy in fear of his Jewish wife's treatment.
4. The Belgian company controlling Uranium mines in the Congo, shut the mines down when the winds of war began to rise in 1939. However, this was not before shipments of Uranium were made to the USA, put in storage, and made available to the US government during the war. IMHO, this is one of the most remarkable stories related to the nuclear bomb program, as it apparently was done by a Belgian national on his own personal innitiative and came as a complete surprise to all involved in the USA nuclear project. IIRC, this was the source of material for the Chicago reactor (Fermi's baby).

I hope these items were of interest, the complete story of the WW II nuclear projects is to my mind, one of the most fascinating accounts, but far beyond the scope of this site. Also, my personal opinion is when a site primarily focused on hardware strays into history, the result is almost always bad history.

Best regards,

Artie Bob

 

[Jemiba]

"There's no problem to get metallic uranium."
Maybe that's the only truth in the whole story, which speaks of a nuclear test
in Thuringia ! In Thuringia uranium ore was found and after WWII around 11%
of the worldwide uranium production came from this area, so it probably was
already there during the war ... .
All the other stories ... 99% rubbish, I think ! "Proof of concept" by the americans,
the principles were known to german scientists, the raw material was there and
maybe a blown-up ammo depot ... and the story was born.

 

[boxkite]

Some time ago there were some stories about "A-bomb tests during WW II
in Thuringia/Germany", but AFAIK the best description of it is the one given
by Orionblamblam ! ;D
But I think, boxkite can give more first-hand details about this affair .

Probably I’m the one of us, who is living nearest Ohrdruf and also the ‘location’ of the alleged bomb explosion (20 … 25 minutes by car from here). I was born with five fingers on every hand, and my head has two eyes and two ears (Jemiba is my witness).

But let’s be seriously. Many books on this topic have been published since the mid-1990s. Most of them were written by a man named Thomas Mehner, e. g. he put three(!) books regarding the ‘German A-bomb’ on the book market within a year at the same publishing company! (Do I hear you say the word ‘rip-off’?) He earns more money by guiding busses full of people to the Jonastal, a valley between Ohrdruf and Arnstadt, where an alleged HQ of the Nazis was (particularly) built in the last months of WWII. On the other hand there is a small association in Wölfis near Ohrdruf, putting up a museum with interesting artifacts. The people there try to shed light on these ‘mysteries’. One of their best ideas was to put the pros & cons together on a table. Mr Mehner was never there (I believe he is too much of a coward to expose to a seriously discussion). But Rainer Karlsch (the author mentioned above) came to the meeting. At the end he had to admit that many of his claims/assertions are very vague (or even wrong). The answers and arguments of invited scientists from the university in Jena and of eye-witnesses changed his mind in several points. The very interesting and informative discussion was printed in the club/association magazine. I would like to give you the questions and answers of this article, but my English is too bad to translate the whole thing (btw, it would be necessary to know the background of region’s history including the ‘Olga’ HQ(?), the old military training area and the concentration camp S III).

To sum up – As Jens and Scott (and others) noticed, there is a big amount of Nazi bullshit for all who want to believe in the existence of a produced and tested German A-bomb. Please read all these articles and books with the utmost caution! Use your brain!

PS.: To give you a nice example how ‘authors’ like Friedrich Georg ‘create’ aviation history, the attached picture is one from his Siegeswaffen volumes. It shows one of Georg’s models – a Mistel formed by a 'Junkers intercontinental bomber proposal' with a Me 262 on its back. Guess what it is!

 

[Justo Miranda]

The Belgian uranium was extracted from the Congo mines by the Union Minière du Haut-Katanga.
On 10 May 1939 Edgar Senier, chairman of Union Minière, travelled to London for an interview with Henry Tizard, scientific adviser of the British Government. On 13 May he went to Paris to discuss with the CNRS scientists on the French patents for the uranium chain reaction.

In June 1939 five tons of Belgiam of uranium oxide were sent to Paris and another three were sent in April 1940, prior to the German invasion.
The official history says that the eight tons were translated to the French Morocco and hidden during the years of German occupation. The Congo mineral contained a 65% of uranium oxide while the one from Canada, extracted by Eldorado Gold Mining, contained a 40% only. The atomic program of the Columbia University was delayed for this cause and scientists Fermi and Szilard could not have enough amount of uranium oxide until the second half of 1941.

The heavy water was sinthetized in Norway only, in the Norsk Hydro installations, as electricity costs in that country were very low. They have obtained 200 kg in 1940, 185 out of which were sent to Paris on 9 March 1940 (a month before the invasion of Norway) because the IG Farben was interested in acquiring the whole stock.

German had other problems with the supplying of heavy water due to British sabotage to the production at Norsk Hydro and to the bad luck (just from the top of my head) one of their factories was destroyed (by the purest chance) by one of the British bombs that 'missed' the target.

 

[Orionblamblam]

there is a big amount of Nazi bullshit for all who want to believe in the existence of a produced and tested German A-bomb.

I may be wrong or seeing a skewed sample size, but a lot of the fanciful "Nazi Wunderwaffen" fiction seems to come from *east* of Germany, from the former Warsaw Pact areas. I have my own hare-brained hypothesis on why this is: during WWII, Germany managed to overrun vast regions and kill, directly or indirectly, *vast* numbers of people. A death toll that, while not as big as that produced by Communists, had the "advantage" of being blatantly obvious and un-arguable, and advertised at leangth for decades. Often when confronted by an enormity of evil, people will begin to imagine that something more than mundane forces are at work. Hense a storm, plague or earthquake helps prop up superstitious beliefs regarding spiritis and gods and such. In the case of WWII, how could just average Germans wreak so much death? Why... they had MAGIC! SUPER-SCIENCE! Fantasmagorical weapons from beyond imagining!!

This is, in a way, something beyond the imagination of many Americans, since we've not experienced anything like that (instead of death camps and industrial scal murder of hundreds of millions, all we have to put up with is a slight increase in gun crime). But come 9-11, 19 idjits managed to completely much up our economy and sense of place and safety in the world. And as a result, a great many American have bought into our own version of Nazi A-Bombs and Nazi Flying Saucers... they've bought into "9-11 was a conspiracy by our own government!!!"

Many people simply can't accept that incredible evil can be perpetrated by average people with rifles or boxcutters, and thus need to invent the fantastical. And once it's ingrained that The Enemy has superpowers (the Nazis had super-science, the US government coudl actually keep a secret), it becomes trivially easy to just keep attributing even *more* nonsense to them (the Nazis had functional A-Bombs, the US Government controls the world).

To give you a nice example how ‘authors’ like Friedrich Georg ‘create’ aviation history, the attached picture is one from his Siegeswaffen volumes. It shows one of Georg’s models ...

A show of hands: who else here besides me is sick to the gills with books illustrated with photos of indifferently assembled and painted commercial model kits? LAME!!!

 

[Jemiba]

"..of the fanciful "Nazi Wunderwaffen" fiction seems to come from *east* of Germany, from the former Warsaw Pact areas"

Quite understandable, I think. Until 1989 , claiming that your sources could only be found behind
the iron curtain, was the easiest way to prevent undue discussions .... ;D
But, perhaps we should be gracious even with such authors, they just try to earn their daily bread,
and writing such books still is better, than using a gun for raiding and robbing innocent people !
And, is there anybody here, who believes in photos like that ?

 

[Justo Miranda]

I believe the origin of the problem is that someone has published some drawings of the submunitions container "Abwurfbehälter" AB-1000 and of the SA-4000 bomb (the German equivalent to the RAF cookies) as illustrations on the German A-bomb.
Please see attached drawings

 

[Michel Van]

I check my data
and found the TV doku
"ZDF History "Was ist dran an Hitlers Bombe ?" (Wat about Hitler Bomb ?)
Re-runs also on the History Channel
ZDF = Zweites Deutsche Fernsehn (second German TV channel)

Reporter of ZDF check Rainer Karlsch claims of Nazi Atombomb and Test.

they had the chance to Interview last Witnesses of Ohrdruf explosion (Thuringia)
Cläre Werner work in Wachsenburg 1945 (near to on Military training ground in Ohrdruf)

on march 1945, the SS came to Wachsenburg [hans Kammler and his theam]
she ask why so many high rang SS came here, she got this answer:
"Wir werden Weltgeschichte schreiben" = We gonna make World history"
they build a tower from wood with something out metall on the top, on the training ground
at in night of march 4, she saw the Explosion

It was a big flash of light, so bright you can read the newspaper,
then we heard sound of explosion, the Light rise higher became a big Tree like Thing.
and than was a second explosion, but smaller as the first
I don't know Wat it was, but after i saw picture of Hiroshima, I know now it was Atombomb explosion...

her account was taken by Soviet in 1945 and SED in 1962 and ZDF in 2005

after 1945 March 4 (so the Reporter of ZDF find out) Report a German Spy to Sovjetunion

" they [german] had 2 major explosion in Thuringia
the weapon destroy tree even in 5 km away
the prisoners used in test were kill or burnt horribly"

the Report was filed "ad ac-ta" and forgotten until ZDF used there connection.

question to "enriched uranium"
Physicist Kurt Diebner work for Uranverein
want to build Small nuclear reactor to "breed" weapon Uran
called "Uranmaschine"

in 2003 Scientists of Margburg take soilsampel out remains of "Uranmaschine"
and check them for Isotopes
after Dr Reinhard Brandt :

the soil is contaminated with enriched Uran with trace of Plutonium!
more that Natural, less as by Atomic test or Chernobyl
the Uranmaschine has only run for minute to Hour, not days

Rainer Karlsch claims that they build a Hybrid Fission-Fussion Nuke
(The guy is good Historian, NOT a Nuclear Physicist ;D )

the Reporter check the peninsula Rügener explosion story
(with interview of Luigi Romersa ! )
The German called this weapon "Zerlegung Bombe" (Factorization bomb, they never talk of Atomic bomb to Italian)

in 2005 ZDF let take soilsampel at "Ground Zero" and check them for radioactivity and Isotopes, NOTHING
also in on Military training ground in Ohrdruf and find, NOTHING
there were no Nuclear explosion there.

Wat Ever is this "Zerlegung Bombe" must be chemical

But why came Commader Eisenhower to Ohrdruf 1945 ?
and why was Albert Speer questioned by prosecutors about the Ohrdruf blast.(in Nuremberg Trials)

 

[boxkite]

Reporter of ZDF check Rainer Karlsch claims of Nazi Atombomb and Test.

they had the chance to Interview last Witnesses of Ohrdruf explosion (Thuringia)
Cläre Werner work in Wachsenburg 1945 (near to on Military training ground in Ohrdruf)

on march 1945, the SS came to Wachsenburg [hans Kammler and his theam]
she ask why so many high rang SS came here, she got this answer:
"Wir werden Weltgeschichte schreiben" = We gonna make World history"
they build a tower from wood with something out metall on the top, on the training ground
at in night of march 4, she saw the Explosion

It was a big flash of light, so bright you can read the newspaper,
then we heard sound of explosion, the Light rise higher became a big Tree like Thing.
and than was a second explosion, but smaller as the first
I don't know Wat it was, but after i saw picture of Hiroshima, I know now it was Atombomb explosion...

her account was taken by Soviet in 1945 and SED in 1962 and ZDF in 2005

Michel,

Cläre Werner is very disputed! The minutes of the discussion ('Ohrdrufer Gespräch') is published at http://www.gtgj.de/script/news/index.php?shownews=400 (it's the same as in the GTGJ association magazine I mentioned in my earlier post).

Regards,
Thomas

 

[Rickshaw]

4. The supposed ‘error’ of Heisenberg regarding the required amount of uranium for the bomb, was undoubtedly intentional.

Since Heisenberg never made it plain, it's impossible to say. However, given that Heisenberg went from "a small bomb is impossible" to "here's how you design a small bomb" in very short order after the announcement of Hiroshime, it's a good possibility. A discussion of this:
http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/nuclear/mg13518370.300

The crucial period in the Farm Hall documents covers the days just after the bombing of Hiroshima. Walther Gerlach, a physicist from Munich who was officially in charge of German research on uranium, acted like 'a defeated general', according to another interned scientist, Max von Laue. Later that night, Heisenberg and Otto Hahn of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute in Berlin discussed Gerlach's reaction. Heisenberg told Hahn that 'Gerlach was the only one of them who had really wanted a German victory'.

The conversation then took a remarkable turn as Heisenberg told Hahn how one might build an atomic bomb. He described how a sphere of uranium-235 with a diameter of 54 centimetres, weighing about a tonne, could sustain a chain reaction of 80 collisions, using 'very fast neutrons', generating 1024 neutrons. But only a quarter of a tonne would be necessary, he said, if the uranium were covered with a 'reflector'. The bombs could be made to explode at the right moment by bringing together two halves which were too small to generate a chain reaction when separated.

Also, regarding actual Nazi-nuke designs, here's about the best I've seen:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/03/nazi_nuke_sketch/

A German historian who controversially claims that the Nazis tested a nuclear device in 1945 has now unearthed a sketch of a "Nazi nuke", as the BBC puts it.

Rainer Karlsch's book Hitlers Bombe (Hitler's Bomb) rather sensationally suggests that German scientists detonated several nuclear bombs, the last in Thuringia on 3 March 1945. According to Karlsch, this destroyed around 500 square miles and killed several hundred POWs and concentration camp inmates.
....
The new sketch - discovered in an undated report on German wartime nuclear research believed to have been compiled shortly after the end of the war in Europe - appears to show a plutonium device. Karlsch admits that the drawing is a simple schematic and does not prove the Nazis were building, or close to building a similar device.

It must be noted that this is a *post* *war* sketch, which means US/UK nuke knowledge could be a part of it... and I'm not sure if the provenance of the sketch in question ahs ever really been confirmed.

If I'm not mistaken, that is in fact a "gun-type" bomb, not an implosion device. Plutonium bombs only function as implosion devices. Uranium bombs can be a "gun-type". Therefore to suggest that this is a credible sketch of a Plotonium bomb would be impossible. You can see the "barrel" down which one sub-critical Uranium mass is blown into the other.

 

[foofighter]

The end of the third reich era is a vast field of missinformation, largely attributable to the victors who were about to initiate their own cold war, as a consequence of which they were tripping over themselves to sort and assimilate german technology as fast as they could get hold of it. The fact that the allies diverted their efforts southwards to the NATIONAL REDOUBT in the Harz mountains instead of making it to Berlin instead of Russia is very suspicious. I remember seeing a photograph of an Heinkel Greif He 177, in a Putnam book, that had been converted in the bomb bay to carry the german A bomb. This was discovered near the Harz mountains in 1945. Remember Germany only had a small window of opportunity in 1945 before the US weapon was ready, and they possibly knew this. Something may have been prepared as a last resort, possibly without enriched Uranium.

 

[Rosdivan]

The fact that the allies diverted their efforts southwards to the NATIONAL REDOUBT in the Harz mountains instead of making it to Berlin instead of Russia is very suspicious.

No it's not. Making it to Berlin first would be nothing more than a propaganda victory at the cost of thousands of Allied lives. The post-war division of Germany had already been agreed upon at Yalta, with a final setting of the lines at Potsdam shortly after the war ended.

I remember seeing a photograph of an Heinkel Greif He 177, in a Putnam book, that had been converted in the bomb bay to carry the german A bomb. This was discovered near the Harz mountains in 1945.

According to Peter Evan's quoted here (the link provided no longer working), that particular He 177 was a testbed for the Ju 287's bomb bay. Additionally, work on that particular He 177 was halted in August 1944.

Remember Germany only had a small window of opportunity in 1945 before the US weapon was ready, and they possibly knew this.

If memory serves, funding for the German atom bomb was only 300,000 Reichsmarks per year. That's not enough to fund an atom bomb project.

Something may have been prepared as a last resort, possibly without enriched Uranium.

That would be a radiological weapon, not an atom bomb.

There's also the additional trouble that the Germans were quite aware that any such sortie to drop an atom bomb would have resulted in the attacking aircraft being shot down long before it could reach the drop point. Any atom bomb would have been used as a mine as a result.

 

[Justo Miranda]

A big size bomb does not have to be an A-bomb. The Germans had the "Luftmine" SA 4000 which had a diameter of 1.6 m and was four meters long. The SC 5000 "Minenbombe" was 5.25 m long and had a diameter of 0.92 m. The SHL-6000 "Hohlladungsbombe" (hollow charge) had 3.9 m. long and had a diameter of 2.4 m. And they were working on another 11.2 m. long and with a diameter of 1.4 for the Sangerprojekt.

The SHL-6000 was developed to be used with the He 177 ,possibly in a Mistel configuration.
There are no known illustrations on the fuel-air bomb but it possibly had a big size.

http://mnweekly.rian.ru/national/20070913/55275780.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6990815.stm
http://groups.google.co.th/group/rec.aviation.military/
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5303653-description.html

I do not believe in the "dirty bomb" theory.
Let's assume that a Blohm und Voss Bv 222 flying boat crosses the Atlantic Ocean using U-Boats for refuelling ,and launches (by night) an AB-1000 container with radioactive dust over a city in the eastern coast of USA. During the next twenty years a given number of clerks and housewives will die or be seriously ill.... Which strategic or propagandistic advantage may that situation offer? How can anyone sell such an stupid idea to the 'Oberkommando der Luftwaffe'? We must remember that the moral conventionalisms of the time were very different and that in the WWII died hundred of people per minute!.
If there is no terrible explosion with flames and massive instant destruction, the idea does not sell well. Hollywood knows it since some time ago....
Besides, Germans had several types of nerve-gas that could have achieved a big destruction of lives and they did not use them (with good sense) fearing the Allies answer to that.

 

[Wingknut]

Sorry to chip in but a couple of things spring to mind:

1) I think (although the source currently escapes me) someone set out to Thuringia (Geiger counters at the ready) and found exactly nothing to support the idea that even a modest radiological weapon, still less Karlsch's fission device, had been tested there.

2) The real debate among historians is not over whether or not there was a German A-bomb or where it might have been tested, but over why a German A-bomb didn't happen. The best defence of the claim that Heisenberg actively worked to derail the German A-bomb project is Thomas Powers's 'Heisenberg's War'. But even Powers has had to admit that not a single historian has been convinced by his view. Almost diametrically opposed to powers is historian Paul Lawrence Rose, who claims that Heisenberg worked to deliver an atomic bomb, failed and then thought up a false story of moral qualms to cover this failure. However, the idea that an entire parallel bomb programme could have issued in a successful test without Heisenberg (or any of the other German physicists interned at Farm Hall) hearing about it, is very far-fetched indeed.

3) A good source for the nonstarter that was the Japanese atomic bomb project is Richard Rhodes's 'The Making of the Atomic Bomb'.

4) Finally, many experimental flights by German aviators 1944-45 (e.g. testing the Ta-152H or RK-344) turned into impromptu combats when they were jumped by flights of P-51's. Given the sheer density of Allied air-cover over Europe 1944-45, I doubt anyone could have tested anything bigger than a matchbox without someone photographing it. So no German A-bomb, no flying saucers, no foo-fighters. (NB The only photo I know that purports to show a foo-fighter buzzing Allied planes clearly shows a lens-flare in conjunction with a Japanese aircraft.) So, I too think a German A-bomb is the purest bull-produce and belongs in the Nazi drivel file, (along with Miethe discs, Hollow Earths and Atlantean wunder-pants).
Cheers,

'Wingknut'

 

[Justo Miranda]

Possibly two Tachikawa Ki-55 from Kumagaya Army Flying School

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vinaIJ__LvQ

 

[Wingknut]

That's exactly the shot I had in mind, Justo.
I have seen that very photograph (I think in an issue of an early 1980's magazine called 'The Unexplained') captioned something like: "Foo-fighters in formation with Allied aircraft".
Cheers,

'Wingknut'.

 

[Antonio]

Foo-fighters in formation with Allied aircraft

I love that pic, you can find it with the same ridiculous caption about Allied aircraft in Spanish TV shows and magazines about "unexplained misteries" ;D

 

[Justo Miranda]

Foo-fighters in formation with Allied aircraft

I love that pic, you can find it with the same ridiculous caption about Allied aircraft in Spanish TV shows and magazines about "unexplained misteries" ;D

Manuel Carballal and myself together made all the documentalist work of "unexplained misteries" and then , not even the photo captions were kept.

http://ojo-critico.blogspot.com/2006/07/el-fraude-de-los-ovnis-nazis.html

http://www.ignaciodarnaude.galeon.com/avistamientos_ovnis/Casos%20OVNI%20en%20el%20Nazismo.htm

http://portal.mundomisterioso.com/ovnis/el-fraude-de-los-ovnis-nazis.html

http://www.todoarquitectura.com/v2/foros/topic.asp?Topic_ID=6687&whichpage=3

I have another two pictures , allegedly of "foo fighters"

-First one is taken from a Ju 88 Luftwaffe night fighter (see the two antennae of FuG101a radioaltimeter under the starboard wing) over Kärnten-Germany 1944

-The second one was possibly shot from a Kawasaki Ki-48 bomber of the Imperial Japanese Army ,possibly in New Guinea,1943.

 

[Antonio]

Justo,

Thanks a lot for the links, I didn't knew about it.

 

[Lockon]

Hi all,

would like to say a big thanks for all your info, has made for some great reading...................and I think with all the info that has been posted I have made up my mind with regards to this topic.

But I did find this on the net...........Models of the so called German Atomic Bombs buy Antares Models http://www.antaresmodels.com/ go to Luft46 Projects and then hit 1/72 in the top right side of the screen.

Lockon.

 

[Lockon]

Sorry here is the Pic.

Lockon.

 

[Antonio]

so called German Atomic Bombs

Santa Paciencia...

 

[jeffryfontaine]

Models of the so called German Atomic Bombs buy Antares Models http://www.antaresmodels.com/ go to Luft46 Projects and then hit 1/72 in the top right side of the screen.

Anteres Models also offers this set in 1/48th scale. I picked up both last year at a local model show in the vendor room. While terribly expensive, it is the only game in town. Unicraft did have the same 1/72nd scale set available several years before Anteres Models started selling the 1/72nd scale weapons. The only difference between the two scales is that the 1/72nd scale weapons have a very crude brass photo-etch sheet for the fins while the 1/48th scale set provides a piece of plastic card stock with the fin shapes printed on it.

 

[airrocket]

If Hitler had the bomb he would have used it. No brainer.....no bomb.

 

[Barrington Bond]

He had nerve gas but didn't use it...

 

[Michel Van]

He had nerve gas but didn't use it...

lucky Hitler was victim of a mustard gas attack in World War One
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#World_War_I

other wise he used massive Nerve gas on front