German Independent Designers

[Wurger]

Hi guys ,

I wonder if any of you knows more about those freelance engineers who presented their own designs to the competent authorities. The one depicted here, sent to me by Lark ( thanks again , Paul ) is from Wilhelm Hillmann, an engineer at Bremen.
From "Die deutschen Flugboote: Flugboote, Amphibien-Flugboote u. Projekte von 1909 bis zur Gegenwart", B&G Verlag, by Fred Gutchow.

 

[Jemiba]

Relatively well known, because often seen, is the so-called "weekend amphibium".
It was shown on the DELA exhibition 1932 on the Messerschmitt stand, which had
the result, that it was often accredited to Messerschmitt. But the design engineer
in fact was Franz Kleinhenz, who filed a patent in 1930. Apart from the flying wing
design, another strange feature was the track-laying landing gear.
( Also from Fred Gütschow, "Die deutschen Flugboote")

 

[Wurger]

Paul Konrad and his half-brother Karl Seifert, of P.1061/Me264 fame were gifted engineers well before working at Messerschmitt. They had an airplane/glider company at Rosenheim, Bavaria, where they apparently worked on a long range aircraft. Does anyone knows about this project, or others from their company?

 

[lark]

Machinenfabrik Gebr.Konrad,Rosenheim.

The KoRo 5 /8 and 9 ultralongrange aircraft (experimantal,
longrange recce. and ultralongrange bomber) are described
in Luftfahrt International heft 11 (luftfahrt-lexicon2120-100-2)

 

[Wurger]

Hi Paul ,

so nice to have you here. Can you please shed some more light on those "goodies"?

 

[lark]

I have no scanner but watch the sky

 

[Wurger]

Old topic, new stuff !

the Ko.Ro. ( 8 and 9 ) series of designed military airplanes from the mid 30`s. Taken from "Luftfahrt International" nº11, generously ceded by Lark ( cheers to you, Paul . Enjoy.

 

[lark]

A bit more info about the Ko Ro 8 military version.

Stratosphere Long-range bomber and Recce. aircraft.
Range:23.000-28.000km
Ceiling:26.000m
Speed:800km/h
armed with 3 MG and 1 cannon.type not given.

 

[Wurger]

Additional info ( here`s to you, Maveric ):

designer: obering. Robert Schnell, out of patent applied to in 1932. He succeeded in building the Ko Ro 5 in the Maschinenfabrik Gebr. Konrad, Rosenheim, Bavaria.
The KoRo E8/9 would sport diesel engines ( judging by the engine nacelles, Jumos ). Mind the different versions ( one was intended to be a floatplane ).
The last pic ( KoRo E9 ) shows two overwing "turbinenlader" ( turbosuperchargers ) designed by Schnell.

 

[jzichek]

These are fantastic! I especially like the Ko. Ro. 8 and 9, though the scans look a bit rough because they are saved as GIFs. Would it be possible to repost grayscale JPEGs of these to get a clearer view? The Ko. Ro. 8 and 9 look superficially like some of the modern DARPA Vulture submissions, though with bombs, crew and a 1930's aesthetic!

If I had the time and money, I'd try to track down the families of American independent designers and see what may survive in their archives. I've always wanted to see a good bio of Burnelli and J.V. Martin, for instance - these guys came up with a bevy of amazing if impractical proposals. On the other side of the pond, I'd like to see a good book on Payen. I read somewhere a few years back that one was underway - hope it eventually sees the light of day.

 

[Wurger]

Hello Jared ,

I will send you the JPEG`s. Just give me some time. Cheers.

 

[Jemiba]

"I'd like to see a good book on Payen. I read somewhere a few years back that one was underway "

Pierre Gaillard has the rights on most of the material left by Roland Payen and is
working on the book, we are waiting for. So chances for somebody else are to get
first hand material are not good. The delay is, at least partially explained by
private problems, as I was told by Deltafan, who is very busy with this theme, too.

 

[Wurger]

Another "paper bird", this time from the draftboard of Ing. Ludger Volpert, an engineer from Münster. He developed a rather curious form of propulsion, without propellers but having engines buried in the wings moving big ducted fans. He designed this big flying boat in the early 30`s.

Pic taken from Jet&Prop 6/08 and supplied by our great moderator, Lark.

 

[lark]

To much honour to me Wurger.
It was a real pleasure

 

[hesham]

Hi,


I don't know if we spoke about those aircraft before or not.


http://alternathistory.org.ua/letayushchaya-eolova-arfa-ko-ro5-germaniya

 

[hesham]

And;

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Kussner transatlantic transport aircraft projects,the first was
a four engined (three tractor and one pusher) and a three fuselages,the
second was a six-engined aircraft (three tractor and three pusher) and twin
fuselage,all details are here;


http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6554624h/f10.image

 

[hesham]

Another "paper bird", this time from the draftboard of Ing. Ludger Volpert, an engineer from Münster. He developed a rather curious form of propulsion, without propellers but having engines buried in the wings moving big ducted fans. He designed this big flying boat in the early 30`s.

Pic taken from Jet&Prop 6/08 and supplied by our great moderator, Lark.

Also for Ludger Volpert,


two projects,one as displayed by my dear Wurger as an artist drawing,and the other
is a single engined.


http://kulturserver-nds.de/home/hubtest/medien/Neg.Nr.GUN.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi guys ,

I wonder if any of you knows more about those freelance engineers who presented their own designs to the competent authorities. The one depicted here, sent to me by Lark ( thanks again , Paul ) is from Wilhelm Hillmann, an engineer at Bremen.
From "Die deutschen Flugboote: Flugboote, Amphibien-Flugboote u. Projekte von 1909 bis zur Gegenwart", B&G Verlag, by Fred Gutchow.

Hi,


here is a patent for the same aircraft,shows a three fuselage version.


Flugsport 1933

 

[Stargazer]

Not sure if this design really fits in the "independent designers" category, being by a group of students, but for lack of a better place...

"The smallest of all German economical airplanes is the Mohamed, a single-seat semi-cantilever monoplane (...) by Darmstad students." (L'auto Italiana, 31 Dec. 1925)

Surely an odd name for an aircraft!

 

[richard]

It's not only a project : it was actually built and flown


Darmstadt D-11Darmstadt


D-11 Mohamed


Akaflieg Darmstadt

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the Flugzeugbau Max Gerner had a Project (as I guess),called G.III,who know it ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

has anyone a picture or drawing to a Ruhrtaler Ru.3 single seat trainer airplane ?.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhrtaler_Ru.3

 

[richard]

from : http://sciencepole.com/ruhrtaler-ru-3/

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Richard.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a Trommer-Michael TM 4a Silbermöwe,it was a single seat shoulder wing
sporting monoplane,powered by one Krüber M-4 with a 2-bladed propeller,I don't
know if they have earlier series (TM 1,2 & 3) or not ?.

http://histaviation.com/tm_4a_silberm%C3%B6we.html

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a man-powered airplane,but I don't know the name of the designer ?.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201935%2009.pdf

 

[richard]

This design was shown in "Der deutsche Sportflieger" 1936 in an article by Adolf Piskorsch (Odrsch bei Troppau) about the "Schwingenflieger"
Troppau was in the "Sudetenland" a country of Czechoslovakia , where the people spoke German .

The sketch shows a proposal of 1934 for a man powered aircraft with "rotating and pulsating" wing ends .

Here two more proposal by PISKORSCH : (source "Flugwesen" 1 and 5 1934) (Flugwesen was published by the "Verbande Deutscher Flieger in der Tschechoslowakischen Republic")

 

[hesham]

Amazing find my dear Richard,many thanks.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the designer Richard Scholz created three airplanes,Light Sportplane,Sportplane of
1927 and Sportplane of 1929,has anyone a drawings,pictures or more Info about
them,they are very rare.

 

[richard]

From Bruno Lange's book , the 1929 Eindecker :

 

[hesham]

Excellent my dear Richard,many thanks.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a Mücke or Mosquito high-wing light monoplane,designed by
Adalbert Schmid.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201941%2003.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi,

what was this Rhön tailless motor glider design ?.

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k97675232.r=document%20aeronautique?rk=21459;2

 

[richard]

It is the Lippisch /Espenlaub /Steinmann "Experiment" glider fitted with a 4,5 hp Ilo engine shown at the Rhön competition in 1925 .
The "father" of all the later "Storch" glider and motor glider ....

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Richard.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

was that designer a German ?,the airplane called Hambourg M-1,and it was a two-seat parasol
wing monoplane,powered by one 60 hp Walter engine.

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k9767475f/f584.image

 

[richard]

The Flugtechnische Verein Hamburg (FVH) M 1 "Pique Ass" was designed and built by Ing.Wagener for Mr Frobeen who flew it in 1928/9 .

It is designed Wagener HW 3 too .

More about Wagener : http://histaviation.com/wagener.html

 

[hesham]

Many thanks to you my dear Richard,

and please Moderator,can you transfer it to a suitable topic;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27381.msg283590.html#msg283590

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the Aerodynamische Versuchsanstalt designed and built AVA AF.1 and AF.2,they are atwo-seat
experimental monoplanes,all Info available is here;

http://www.histaviation.com/AVA__AF_1.html
http://www.histaviation.com/AVA__AF_2.html