Fugaku : Z-plane, G10 or G12

[blackkite]

Hi! I made a table which compare the armaments of Japanese and American WWⅡheavy bombers.
B-36's armament were very heavy and retractable, Fugaku's armament were very light to fly 15,000m with high speed. There are some documents to describe that Fugaku's number of armaments were 24. BTW it's apparently mistake, too heavy armament.

When I checked B-36, I found some interesting facts.
1.At first XB-36 had single tire undercarriage which diameter was 2.79m while Fugaku's tire diameter was 1.9m and double.
2.R4360 engine's turbo supercharger and intercooler were located before the engine, very stout engine nacelle. R4360 also had the mechanical supercharger.
3.B-36 had remote controlled retractable turrets.
Chikuhei Nakajima feared B-36 very much, and thought that B-36 was the rival of Fugaku.
Source:FAMOUS AIRPLANES OF THE WORLD, CONVAIR B-36 PEACEMAKER, BUNRINDO TOKYO

 

[blackkite]

Hi! I found two Fugaku armament plans. No.1 plan is in my No.2 bible.
No.2 plan is in “The IJA military aircraft perfect guide from 1910 to 1945. Gakken ”.
These two plans also have four 20mm cannons. Two plans have little strange part.
No.1 plan has no half spherical small windows for remote controlled turrets.
No.2 plan has half spherical small windows for upper and lower turrets, but each turret has bird cage like flame same as manned turret.
Except the armament, two drawings are different in various parts, they are cabin, wing, engine and vertical stabilizer.
I think No.2 plan's engine nacelle length is little short to accommodate turbo supercharger, but fuselage middle pressurized part volume is small and proper.
No.1 plan's vertical tail stabilizer shape is similar to Renzan's ,P-3C's and P-2V's one, and have a good fairing for low drag.
No.1 plan's wing is similar to Renzan. ;D

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Little strange Fugaku No.3 armaments plan and No.1 armaments plan. ;D
The gunners wore oxygen mask when suffering enemy attack same as Mt.Everest attack?
Or IJN thought that the armaments were not necessary because Fugaku's service ceiling was very high(15,000m), armaments were necessary for low altitude condition.
Source: Net.

 

[amsci99]

blackkite,

That looks like an interesting modeler's meeting/convention with a fair amount of Luftwaffe' 46 and other project aircraft. Would like to know more about especially if there was website which covered the event.

Thanks!

 

[blackkite]

blackkite,

That looks like an interesting modeler's meeting/convention with a fair amont of Luftwaffe' 46 and other project aircraft. Would like to know more about especially if there was website which covered the event.

Thanks!

Hi! For example,
http://galland3.web.fc2.com/shs08/index.html
http://ike.vivian.jp/wordpress/2010/05/2010-%E9%9D%99%E5%B2%A1%E3%83%9B%E3%83%93%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%BC-%E3%83%AC%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%8833%E3%80%80%E3%83%A2%E3%83%87%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%AF%E3%83%A9%E3%83%96.html
http://maidomailbox.seesaa.net/category/1386105-1.html
http://photozou.jp/photo/list/180503/1198322
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~qshu-afv/gogo9shu.html

 

[amsci99]

Thank you very much, blackkite.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! The cocoon type Ki-74 pressurized cabin.

Ki-74 Specification
Overall length:１７．６５ｍ, Height:５．１０ｍ, Wing span:２７．００ｍ, Wing area:８０．００ｍ2, Empty weight:１０，２００ｋｇ,
MTOW:１９，４００ｋｇ, Max speed:５７０ｋｍ／ｈ（@８，５００ｍ）, Service ceiling:１２，０００ｍ, Range:７，２００ｋｍ over, Engine:Mitsubishi HA104 LU 18 Cylinders 1800hp at take off, Crew:5, Armament:１２．７mm gun×１、２５０kg bomb×４
Source:The IJA and IJN bombers and attack aircrafts, 1930 to 1945, BUNRINDO,2007/9/25, ISBN978-4-89319-155-7 C9453

 

[T-50]

Hi Blackkite San very nice Ki-74 drawings! ,saw on one of these drawings the Japanese copy of the norten bombsight.
This device was planned for the Ki-74?

 

[blackkite]

Hi T-50 san. You are very sharp eyed! It's exactly Japanese copied Norden bombsight for Ki-74.
IJN thought to use Ki 74 as the one way ticket American bomber.

 

[borovik]

Another iteration Ki 74 (less known IMHO)
...from "The XPlanes Of Imperial Japanese Army & Navy 1924-45"

 

[blackkite]

Oh! Thanks. It's Ki-74 Ⅱ, planned in 1944 as a pure bomber. Range was 7,000km with 2ton bomb.
Cockpit was side by side arrangement to reduce volume of pressurized area and increase reliability.
This project proceeded until mock up examination stage, terminated by B-29 bombing.
(From Japanese text of this bomber's drawing.)

 

[windswords]

Blackkite-san,

Your diagram of the interior crew positions of the Ki-74 show the crewman behind the pilot facing forward as one would expect for a co-pilot (as in the Boeing B-47 bomber). However this crewman could not see in front of him since the canopy was not entirely glazed as in traditional aircraft. Also a model site I found with pictures of the cockpit details shows the position behind the pilot facing backwards, not forwards.

Was the seat behind the pilot able to rotate to face either direction? Or is the model's cockpit layout incorrect?

Please see:

cockpit build of Ki-74 by AV models:
http://matever.com/archives/ct02making/_74av_model_1723.html#more

finished build of Ki-74 by AV Models:
http://matever.com/archives/ct01complete/_74av_model_172.html#more

Added bonus, photo of the inside of the Ki-74 cockpit:
http://www.colesaircraft.com/1-10-Ki74.html

 

[blackkite]

Hi windswords-san! Thank you very much for very detailed model pictures and real Ki74 pictures.
OK I will try to answer your questions. I think Ki74 is one of the key to solve Fugaku mystery.
Explanation of drawing are as follows.
①Bomb Aimer ②Pilot ③Co-Pilot ④Radio Operater ⑤Air Gunner ⑥Pressure tight bulkhead ⑩Bomb sight ⑪Tail gun(remote controlled)
We can see control rod for co-pilot in the drawing, although co-pilot could not see forward direction. Strange. ;D
I can't find any other information of cabin arrangement in Japanese books including my No1/No2 bible.
I think that the seat for co-pilot could rotate, because there were cabin rear windows which had good view for fighter attack warning.

Fugaku's crews were six. I think they were ①bomb aimer/navigator ②pilot ③Co-pilot/air gunner ④Radio operater/air gunner ⑤Flight engineer/air gunner ⑥tail air gunner. Strange?
There is a opinion that Fugaku had a slanting tube from cabin to after pressurized part.

 

[windswords]

Blackkite-san,

Thank you for translating your cutaway view of the Ki-74. I have my doubts that the second seat in the cockpit was for a co-pilot. Perhaps he was in actuality a relief pilot. Since the Ki-74 had such a long range maybe the the pilots would exchange seats (they could move back and forth on the right side of the fuselage since the cockpit was offset to the left side).

I guessed that number 6 was the pressure bulkhead. The gunner must have had some sort of optical sighting system to aim the guns.

I wonder why there are windows on the underside after the bomb bay? The diagram shows that they lie outside of the pressurized bulkhead so they would could not be looked out of during high altitude flight.

 

[blackkite]

I wonder why there are windows on the underside after the bomb bay? The diagram shows that they lie outside of the pressurized bulkhead so they would could not be looked out of during high altitude flight.

Hi! Windswords-san, thank you very much. I understand that the seat behind the pilot was for relief pilot. Yes the mission time of Ki-74 was very long, almost one day. Fugaku was almost two days!
I think Windows on the underside after the bomb bay were for remote controlled camera. If so windows were too large?
Ki-74 also had the reconnaissance role.
Ki-74 performed Saipan island reconnaissance, and planned to attack Saipan B-29 base in September 1945.

 

[windswords]

Blackkite-san,

Yes, that makes sense that the large size and number of windows on the lower aft side were for cameras. They would not have to be kept within the pressurized compartment.

 

[borovik]

-Ki-74 variants
same source

 

[windswords]

I see that the bottom version has a longer canopy than top one. Can anyone translate the two inscriptions?

 

[blackkite]

Many thanks borovik-san!
ヤ号機(Yago-ki) was a No.2 Ki-74 completed in 1944/8/2, which objective was Japan to Germany non stop direct friendliness flight follow on the failure of the A-26 direct flight. Engines were HA-211 without turbo supercharger (1,980 hp at 5,000m) same as No.1 plane. Range was 12,000km,cruising speed was 270km/h. The bomb bay contained extra fuel tank instead of the bomb. Cabin was located center line of the fuselage. The direct flight was not performed due to the surrender of Germany. From No.3 plane to No.14 plane, cabin was located left side of the fuselage. 14 Ki-74s were built.(3 planes were built in 1944, 11 planes were built in 1945.)
Source: My No.2 bible.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! FUGAKU v.s.Ki-74 and Ki-74Ⅱ. And B-29 crew.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Some hints for Fugaku mystery from B-29.
爆撃手：Bomb Aimer, 席：Seat, 操縦士：Pilot, 副操縦士：co-pilot, 機関士：Flight Engineer,
航法士：Navigator, 無線士：Radio Operator, 連絡トンネル：Crew tunnel, 機銃士：Gunner,
照準器：Gun Sight,

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Pressurized tail turret. Guns did not penetrate pressurized area.
SOURCE:FAMOUS AIRCRAFT OF THE WORLD, BOEING B-29, BUNRINDO, ISBN4-89319-049-0 C9453

 

[blackkite]

Hi! B-29'cabin, crew tunnel connected cabin with middle pressurized area, tail turret front pressure bulkhead door and turret.

 

[T-50]

Hi Blackkite San did you know if there was a bomberversion of the Ki-77?
I hope so because this aircraft possess the capacity to strike over far distances!

 

[JFC Fuller]

Was there not a dedicated bomber version of the Ki-74 that would fulfill the long range bomber role?

 

[blackkite]

Hi! I don't think that Ki-77 had a bomber project, because it had no pressurized cabin and the engine power was poor.
Basically Ki-74 was a reconnaissance bomber. Ki-74 Ⅱwas a pure bomber.
I am drawing Fugaku 3 side view, it takes little long time for me. Please wait. (Of course hand craft). ;D

 

[blackkite]

Hi! My guess for the main wing shape of Fugaku HA44 engine variant and HA50 engine variant.
Wing tip cut area was equal to wing root extension area. Fugaku's wing tip deflected 1.3m to upper direction in flight.
And which cabin do you like? ;D
Attached Fugaku colored plan view and side view are from Gakken book. If this plan view's wing span is 63m, the wing area is 330m2.
This drawing's wing shape and inner engine nacelle side shape which accommodate 1.9m diameter tire are good, but overall length is only 37m while real Fugaku overall length is 42m. Too short. And the length between main landing gear tires(length between left and light inner engine nacelles center line) is 7.8m. I think it's too short.

 

[blackkite]

When trying to draw Fugaku 3-side view, I have some questions about Fugaku wing shape.
To answer these questions, I went to the National Institute for Defense Studies in Tokyo to check the original “必勝戦策(winning game plan)” by Chikuhei Nakajima.
I could find the winning game plan which include 1/500 scale Z-plane 3-side view.
I found these facts through this 3-side view.
1.Z-plane's wing dihedral 3.5° was determined by the wing upper surface. The dihedral was about 5° when determined by the maximum wing chord position.
2.Z-plane's main wheels diameter was about 1.3m where Fugaku's main wheels diameter was 1.9m.
3.Z-plane's main wheels were retracted forward direction.
4.Z-plane's wing tip thickness was thin.
5.Z-plane's wing had the leading edge slat.

My No.2 Bible's Fugaku 3-side view is not reliable, because it's wing area was too large.(over 400m2 where real wing area was 330m2.)

I ordered the copy of the winning game plan, I will get it in 2 or 3 weeks.

 

[moin1900]

Hi everybody
Fugaku with jet engines. Enjoy !
http://www.chinesewwii.net/vbb38/showthread.php?t=24225

 

[blackkite]

Thanks! Fugaku HA44 variant with Mitsubishi turbo jet engine is very impressive. BTW I have never read about the plan Fugaku with turbo jet engines. This drawing shows non pressurized cabin. Main landing gear tires diameter were little small for me compared with ground crews, I believe that Fugaku main tire diameter was 1.9m. Japanese text says that propellers diameter was 4.5m while my guess was 4m because Ki-94Ⅱhigh altitude fighter's propeller diameter was 4m which engine was forced cooling turbo supercharged HA44 engine. I can't find the dimension of this aircraft and source of this drawing in Japanese text.
The inner engine nacelle's shape is good. Same as YS-11.

 

[airman]

Hi everybody
Fugaku with jet engines. Enjoy !
http://www.chinesewwii.net/vbb38/showthread.php?t=24225

good link !

 

[blackkite]

Recently I get nice 3-side view and picture of Fugaku HA44 variant. Please enjoy beautiful Fugaku and beautiful Mt.Fuji.
This 3-side view's specification is as follows.(Fugaku final plan) I think this 3-side view is so so. The arms are little different from our understanding. It's true that tere is a opinion to state following Fugaku specification.
Wing span:61m, Length;39m, MTOW;111t, wing area;310m2, Engine;HA44(HA219), Max speed;684km/h(15,000m)/642km/h(12,000m)/684km/h(9,000m), Bomb;5ton, Range;18,070km-21,440km
Source:Gakken Rekishi Gunzo No88.(歴史群像 No88，学習研究社).2008/4

 

[blackkite]

Hi Z-plane 3-side view and the chart of combat radius from "WINNING GAME PLAN by Chikuhei Nakajima".
The chart of combat radius did not include the effect of the jet stream, because the effect of the jetstream had not been discovered when drew this chart. Enjoy.

 

[royabulgaf]

Interesting artwork on the double page. By any chance did the artist do some Hasegawa kit boxes?

 

[blackkite]

Hi! The artist is Masao Satake.(佐竹政夫) Yes I believe he did some box arts of Hasegawa's aircraft models.
http://www.art-eagle.com/daizukan001.html
http://www.art-eagle.com/satake_sample.html
I modify Fugaku main wing shape again. How about my guess for Fugaku wing section? It's from Saiun's Nakajima K-series laminar flow wing designed by Yasuo Naito.
Tapered wing is very effective to reduce wing root bending moment due to lift force generated by the wing. Also wing fuel tank is very effective to reduce wing root bending moment.

 

[Pelzig]

Slightly off topic but fun nonetheless, for those with a Playstation or Playstation II, in the U.S., Strikers 1945 II was released as Strikers 1945. The photo is of the promo for the Japanese Strikers 1945 II. At any rate, if you fly the Hayate in the game, its special attack is the Fugaku which has the bomber appearing on the screen, laying waste to the enemy. You can see the artist used the German inspired Fugaku version.

Cheers! ;D

 

[blackkite]

Wow Ed! It seems to be Z-OHTA factory based German inspired FUGAKU. ;D

 

[Stargazer]

It is beyond comprehension to me how you guys can still come up so regularly with new artwork on these projects... Are the Japanese that obsessed with not winning the war that they've devoted so much effort in recreating the Fugaku and Z projects in so many books? There seems to be no end to this... and at the same time, since much of it is largely speculative, there never seems to be twice exactly the same configuration... I must say I'm puzzled here!

 

[Jemiba]

If we set the number of books about japanese WW II projets in relation to the number about
German projects, I think we come out with a ratio of at least 10 to 1, and most books about
german "mysteries" not even come from Germany anymore and that is puzzling me !
What I've seen so far in this thread, especially by blackkite is an attempt of a
reconstruction of a type, that in fact was designed, although quite few reliable
resources seem to have survived. And if institutions like the NIDS were contacted,
I would say: Congratulations for serious research ! That in the end, we probably will
never see an "ultimate" 3-view is a fate, the Fugaku shares with a lot of other projetcs.
Loosing a war always is a traumatic event, I think, may it be for Japan, for Germany, or for
the US in Vietnam, for the Soviet Union in Afghanistan or for France in Algeria, so perhaps we
should be indulgent to a certain extend for some nostalgia.
As long, as I'm not confronted here with "wonderweapons", that very nearly would have
turned the tide, as they were "decades ahead of their time", just to be stolen by the US, the
russians or whoever and now are stored in Area 51, or Semipalatinsk, or on the backside of the
moon, it's still ok for me.

 

[Stargazer]

As long, as I'm not confronted here with "wonderweapons", that very nearly would have
turned the tide, as they were "decades ahead of their time", just to be stolen by the US, the
russians or whoever and now are stored in Area 51, or Semipalatinsk, or on the backside of the
moon, it's still ok for me.

Yeah. You're getting my point here. What really bugs me most often in that type of thread is the "if it had been built, we would have won" kind of thing. And however much I LOVE unbuilt designs, I find that much too often the "1946" type reconstructions reek of fascination for the Nazi more than a real love of the machines themselves...