Fokker Ontwerp Numbers

[Apophenia]

Good stuff hesham. Since my translation effort tried to stay fairly close to Frits Gerdessen's original, I won't add these details to my listing. Tempting though that is

 

[Bazinga]

Fokker B.III from 1927 L'Ala D'Italia

 

[Bazinga]

And more Fokker B.III from 1927 L'Ala D'Italia

 

[Apophenia]

Fokker B.III from 1927 L'Ala D'Italia

Any idea of an ontwerp number for the B.III? Following the pattern of the B.I and B.II, I would assume the original internal form to have been 'F.B.III'

 

[hesham]

Dear Apophenia,

the Fokker B.III was appeared in 1926 and Ontwerp system (100s) was
begun in 1934,and up to this time,they used drawing number earlier.

 

[Apophenia]

Yes. I was wondering if there was an earlier, pre-100 series ontwerpen designation of the type identified by Frits Gerdessen.

 

[hesham]

No pre-100 series as I know,but drawing number,for example
Drawing 11206 was a special aircraft design.

 

[Apophenia]

No pre-100 series ...

Not as a straightforward numbering system, perhaps, but Frits Gerdessen identified at least two pre-100 systems - the 1920-1925 letter-prefix system (hence my mention of the F.B.I and F.B.II) and the 'Named Ontwerpen'.

"...for example Drawing 11206 was a special aircraft design."

I know, having quoted Frits Gerdessen on Tekening 11206 in reply #26 (and its English useage - "Special machine").

We now link Fokker design concepts with the surviving drawing numbers - they are often all we have left. But the existence of the 1920-1925 letter-prefixes and the 'Named Ontwerpen' demonstrate that Fokker employed other methods of identifying design work.

I think it is worth noting that, of the 'Named Ontwerpen', only a few can now associated with tekening nummers. Those drawings which do survive are invaluable. But each design will have had generated multiple tekeningen. Probably safe to say that N.V. Koninklijke Nederlandse Vliegtuigenfabriek Fokker had some other way of keeping track of what flowed through its design office and over their draughtsmen's drawing boards.

 

[Bazinga]

I suspect that many designs were confiscated by the Germans after bombing the factory in 1940. See Baade rummaging thru the rubble of the Fokker factory and offices

Source: hugojunkers.bplaced.net

 

[Hood]

Ontwerp 232 - F26 Phantom
Ontwerp 239 - early S.14 design studies
Ontwerp 240 series - S.14 design studies
Ontwerp 240K - final S.14 design produced as Machtrainer
Ontwerp 265 - Nene-powered S.14 fighter with 4x 20mm cannon

Source: article Fokker S14 Machtrainer, by Pete London, Aeroplane, Aug 2021

 

[hesham]

Also in post # 31,

the Ontwerp 238 led to develop S.14.

 

[Gjalt]

I suspect that many designs were confiscated by the Germans after bombing the factory in 1940. See Baade rummaging thru the rubble of the Fokker factory and offices

Source: hugojunkers.bplaced.net

View attachment 659074

The Fokker factory was NOT bombed in 1940, this is the city centre of Rotterdam, The Fokker factory was in Amsterdam. The Koolhoven facrory on the other was bombed and in Rotterdam...

 

[Bazinga]

I suspect that many designs were confiscated by the Germans after bombing the factory in 1940. See Baade rummaging thru the rubble of the Fokker factory and offices

Source: hugojunkers.bplaced.net

View attachment 659074

The Fokker factory was NOT bombed in 1940, this is the city centre of Rotterdam, The Fokker factory was in Amsterdam. The Koolhoven facrory on the other was bombed and in Rotterdam...

Interesting. Good research

 

[Bazinga]

Stumbled over the Ontwerp 194/C.15W design of 1939/1940

Luchtvaartkennis 2016-3

Read Luchtvaartkennis 2016-3 by Koninklijke Nederlandse Vereniging voor Luchtvaart (KNVvL) on Issuu and browse thousands of other publications on o...

issuu.com

 

[Maveric]

From Luchtvaartkennis 2016-1 Ontwerp 217 is the Fokker F.25 "Promoter".

 

[ArmchairSamurai]

Where does this fit in?

https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/...fq[]=search_s_mediatype:"Foto's"&filterAction

 

[Maveric]

Fokker Ontwerp 185.

 

[hesham]

Where does this fit in?

https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/foto-s/detail/8192740e-ba46-0b0a-51f8-2af2c465480e/media/105ba763-e88d-c1b7-9c64-003dee76ac90?mode=detail&view=horizontal&q=fokker tekening&rows=1&page=16&fq[]=search_s_mediatype:"Foto's"&filterAction

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/dutch-fokker-bomber-and-fighter-projects-from-the-late-30ties.7866/page-3#post-324106

 

[ArmchairSamurai]

Where does this fit in?

https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/foto-s/detail/8192740e-ba46-0b0a-51f8-2af2c465480e/media/105ba763-e88d-c1b7-9c64-003dee76ac90?mode=detail&view=horizontal&q=fokker tekening&rows=1&page=16&fq[]=search_s_mediatype:"Foto's"&filterAction

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/dutch-fokker-bomber-and-fighter-projects-from-the-late-30ties.7866/page-3#post-324106

Thanks lads

 

[hesham]

There are still unknown Ontwerp designs.

 

[Bazinga]

It says they changed the numbering system of their magazine in 1987. Before they had page numbers per issue. After they continued numbering over the full year.
The Ontwerp docs can be found in 1986-10 issue and the 2002 issue (probably 1st or 2nd, judging by the pagenumber

 

[hesham]

Ontwerp 122A - [Project] Twin-engined night-bomber variant of Ontwerp 122

Also from Luchtvaartkennis 2008,Ontwerp 122A,as a mail airplane project.