Focke-Wulf jet fighter

[Justo Miranda]

No :-\

 

[Vladimir]

Thanks, newsdeskdan!

 

[Jozsef]

newsdeskdan - Thank you.

 

[Flitzer]

A few more...

 

[blackkite]

Oh! Plan view look like F-86.

 

[Vladimir]

Yap, later it was transformed and build as MiG I-320

 

[Arjen]

Do you have a source for that? The first I-320 was a straight-winged aircraft, TL-Jäger mit HeS 011-Gerät (Kurzbaubeschreibung Nr. 30) shows a swept-wing aircraft, with its exhausts much more forward than the I-320's single Nene exhaust.
The second I-320 was a swept-wing monstrosity with one engine in front/exhaust underwing, another engine in the middle rear/exhaust in the tail.

 

[Vladimir]

Hi, Arjen I-320 not a straight-winged aircraft but swept-wings! And it have two enjens and two exaust!

 

[Arjen]

I was modifying my previous post while you posted.
There were two Mikoyan designs sharing the I-320 code. Both very different from the Fw design. I'll rustle up some images.
R2 image from http://www.aviastar.org/air/russia/mig_i-320.php
First I-320 / MiG-9 derivative image - need to scan that first.
Image from 'MiG Aircraft since 1937' by Bill Gunston and Yefim Gordon, Putnam 1998.

 

[Vladimir]

Agree, they were different! They are not "blind" copy but when Russian design it use german conception of the night fighter " TL-Jager mit HeS 011-Gerat" and documentation! If You really needed source for that i'll try to find it in my library, Ok?

I design a card model of it so i investigate a many sources of I-320

 

[Arjen]

The second I-320 was an attempt to squeeze two centrifugal flow turbojets into an aircraft without turning it into the fattest jetfighter of the time. To achieve that, instead of fitting them side by side, the engines were fitted fore and aft, with both engines receiving air from the split intake in the nose. The outer mold line may be reminiscent of the Fw design, but under the skin they were completely different aircraft. Describing the I-320 as a transformed TL-Jäger mit HeS 011-Gerät (Kurzbaubeschreibung Nr. 30) doesn't do justice to the novel (if possibly misguided) design of the I-320.
Lavochkin tried something similar with the La-200, another radar carrying fighter with fore and aft engines. I remember the first time I saw both designs, and the utter surprise I felt.

I would love to see a card model of the second I-320.

 

[CiTrus90]

Looking at the drawing of the Nachtjager Entwurf II, i see more than a passing resemblance of its canopy to that of the Pulqui I.

 

[Flitzer]

Fw 25s

 

[Vladimir]

That artwork is awesam!!!

Here is info from different sources. I also do remember that also read in another russian book more info about I-320 (R-1) and Focke-Wulf, but i do not remember in what book...

 

[Arjen]

In other words: I-320 and La-200 were 'inspired' by the Fw designs. Seeing how much they differed when built from the Fw designs - centrifugal-flow turbojets fore and aft instead of axial-flow turbojets side by side - that's a lot of transforming. The similarities are reduced to all designs being twin engined, swept wing aircraft.

 

[hs1216]

One of the things that bugs me about luft 46 is the implicit claim that for 5-7 years after World War 2, no one (particularly the Russians) had an original idea and were just copying the Germans.

 

[Vladimir]

I told that it's NOT copy!

 

[Arjen]

I think it would be fair to say the Fw design was made to similar requirements as the I-320. The I-320 not a copy - agreed.
"praktische Verwirklichung" - the quote is from 'Geheimprojekte der Luftwaffe - Band I - Jagdflugzeuge 1939-1945' by Walter Schick / Ingolf Meyer, Motorbuch Verlag 1996. Somewhat ambiguously, this can be read to mean practical realisation of a design. If meant that way by Schick / Meyer, I think that would be wrong. The I-320 differs way too much from the Fw.

 

[hs1216]

Back to the topic at hand, where is the radar for these FW night fighters? At this late stage of the war I assume the Germans were planning on using a cenemetric radar.

 

[Apteryx]

Back to the topic at hand, where is the radar for these FW night fighters? At this late stage of the war I assume the Germans were planning on using a cenemetric radar.

inboard profile drawings in this series show a parabolic dish mounted in the upper nose, as in this detail. Source: unknown. I may have gotten it from this site...

 

[hs1216]

The arrangement doesn't seem very practical. Wouldn't the dish be restricted? I not a radar expert but the installation of radar on early night fighter aircraft took up a lot of space and engineering.

 

[Apteryx]

The arrangement doesn't seem very practical. Wouldn't the dish be restricted? I not a radar expert but the installation of radar on early night fighter aircraft took up a lot of space and engineering.

Probably not the ideal installation, and the evidence is the prevalence of terminal radomes, with subterminal or side-mounted air intakes on postwar fighters. The radars took up space, but bear in mind that these Focke-Wulf designs were large aircraft, large enough that they were ultimately given three HeS011 engines.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The arrangement doesn't seem very practical. Wouldn't the dish be restricted? I not a radar expert but the installation of radar on early night fighter aircraft took up a lot of space and engineering.

Looking for practicality in Luft '46 is an exercise in frustration. This stuff is done in detailed design, and most of these designs never got that far.

 

[Apteryx]

inboard profile drawings in this series show a parabolic dish mounted in the upper nose, as in this detail. Source: unknown. I may have gotten it from this site...

So I checked, and the drawing appeared in this topic:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9164.0.html

…which ought perhaps be combined with this one.

 

[Jozsef]

I look for cross-sections of the fuselage of this jet.
Do you have any suggestion?
I use Justo Miranda’s picture.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
Focke Wulf Entwurf3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pACgV3AgzfE

 

[blackkite]

Focke Wulf Entwurf1(Fw P.1).

http://www.3djuegos.com/comunidad-foros/tema/1898288/0/aviones-secretos-nazis/
Which three side drawing is correct?
Bottom picture source : Jet Planes of the Third Reich, The Secret Projects

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Project_I
"The Focke-Wulf Project I was a design study for a jet fighter to be built in Germany during World War II. In 1942, the Reichsluftministerium (RLM) asked Professor Kurt Tank of the Focke-Wulf factory to investigate the possibility of a single-engine jet fighter."

RLM worried about a problem on the fire prevention by jet exhaust under the fuselagey and prohibited plan progress of this fighter.
And Focke Wulf designed Entwurf2,3,4,5. Later Entwurf 5 became Ta-183.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Focke Wulf Entwurf1(Fw P.1).

http://www.3djuegos.com/comunidad-foros/tema/1898288/0/aviones-secretos-nazis/
Which three side drawing is correct?
Bottom picture source : Jet Planes of the Third Reich, The Secret Projects

The bottom one.

 

[blackkite]

Thanks a lot.
Focke Wulf Entwurf2(Fw P.2).

http://alternathistory.com/proekt-istrebitelya-focke-wulf-pii-s-dvigatelem-jumo-109-004-germaniya

http://www.luft46.com/fw/fwpiib.html

"This was the second design from Kurt Tank of the Focke-Wulf company for a single-jet engine, single-seat fighter, submitted June 9, 1943."

RLM worried about a problem on Belly-landing when undercarriage trouble and prohibited plan progress of this fighter.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Focke Wulf Entwurf5 later became Ta-183.
Source : Wikipedia
https://en.wiki2.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_183
There are some differences between Entwurf5 and Ta-183, for example....
①nose length
②rudder upper end shape
③landing gear
④nose gun position
⑤wind shield
⑥wing shape

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Hi! Focke Wulf Entwurf5 later became Ta-183.
Source : Wikipedia

Could you be more specific? There's 5,088,248 content articles on Wikipedia.

 

[blackkite]

I also get Fw Entwurf5 information from ドイツ空軍のジェット計画機 (Jet Planes of the Thied Reich,The Secret Projects).
ISBN4-499-22922-7

 

[blackkite]

I imagine that piston engine of this fighter(Focke-Wulf 0310251-13) is shut down on the ground at zero speed condition.

http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/ehdu/post144438665/

 

[Dynoman]

Nice cutaway of Ta 183

 

[blackkite]

Thanks a lot. Super!!
Bombs, drop tanks , cannons and missiles.

 

[Flitzer]

A few more in keeping with the thread.

 

[blackkite]

Sharp and beautiful as usual. Thanks for sharing!!

 

[richard]

http://www.amazon.com/Luftwaffe-Advanced-Aircraft-Projects-1945/dp/1857802403

I can't identify the jet just under the tittle …

Thank you

Richard

 

[hesham]

My dear Richard,

I think it was a variant of BV P.196.

 

[Zizi6785]

FW P.III/IV variant?