FFG(X)

[TomS]

WWII DE names might be a good source. Ships from the Taffy force for stance.

What was the Taffy force, never heard of that one?

Short version: TAFFY 3 was one of three groups of escort carriers and their DD/DE escorts off Leyte in the Philippines in 1944. The Japanese launched a last-ditch effort to get at the US landing force invading the Philippines. Halsey's Third Fleet with all the fleet carriers was supposed to be covering, but was decoyed out of the way. What was left was three groups of escort carriers and their tin cans, a mix of DDs and DEs (plus some slow battleships in the bombardment force). TAFFY 3 was six CVEs, three DDs, and four DEs, up against 23 Japanese ships, including 4 battleships and 6 heavy cruisers. TAFFY 3's escorts and aircraft made a series of nearly suicidal torpedo and gun attacks on the Japanese to cover the withdrawal of the escort carriers; their combined efforts actually sank multiple cruisers and convinced the Japanese commanders that they had run into a force of USN heavy cruisers at least. The Japanese turned away, but TAFFY 3 was nearly obliterated, with two carriers and three escorts sunk, others badly damaged, and over 1000 dead. But they kept the Japanese out of the invasion force, where they could have slaughtered tens of thousands of Marines on their transports.

The Battle off Samar: The Sacrifice of "Taffy 3"

Overview On 15 October 1944, the Japanese Imperial Navy’s First Mobile Fleet launched Operation Shō, a last-ditch attempt to engage Allied naval forces off Leyte in the central Philippines decisively. Following the 24 October Battle of the Sibuyan Sea, the powerful Japanese First Diversion...

www.history.navy.mil

 

[SSgtC]

WWII DE names might be a good source. Ships from the Taffy force for stance.

What was the Taffy force, never heard of that one?

Short version: TAFFY 3 was one of three groups of escort carriers and their DD/DE escorts off Leyte in the Philippines in 1944. The Japanese launched a last-ditch effort to get at the US landing force invading the Philippines. Halsey's Third Fleet with all the fleet carriers was supposed to be covering, but was decoyed out of the way. What was left was three groups of escort carriers and their tin cans, a mix of DDs and DEs (plus some slow battleships in the bombardment force). TAAFFY 3 was six CVEs, three DDs, and four DEs, up against 23 Japanese ships, inclulding 4 battleships and six heavy cruisers. TAFFY 3's escorts and aircraft made a series of nearly suicidal torpedo and gun attacks on the Japanese to cover the withdrawal of the escort carriers; their combined efforts actually sank multiple cruisers and convinced the Japanese commanders that they had run into a force of USN heavy cruisers at least. The Japanese turned away, but TAFFY 3 was nearly obliterated, with two carriers and three escorts sunk, others badly damaged, and over 1000 dead. But they kept the Japanese out of the invasion force, where they could have slaughtered tens of thousands of Marines on their transports.

The Battle off Samar: The Sacrifice of "Taffy 3"

Overview On 15 October 1944, the Japanese Imperial Navy’s First Mobile Fleet launched Operation Shō, a last-ditch attempt to engage Allied naval forces off Leyte in the central Philippines decisively. Following the 24 October Battle of the Sibuyan Sea, the powerful Japanese First Diversion...

www.history.navy.mil

That fight is one of the big reasons why CV-32 was renamed Leyte. Those ships and men fought their hearts out and gave every last ounce they had.

 

[Josh_TN]

WWII DE names might be a good source. Ships from the Taffy force for stance.

What was the Taffy force, never heard of that one?

I was referring to the task force names of the Battle off Samar...Taffy 1, Taffy 2, Taffy 3, etc. Small ships that punched above their weight fighting against a superior foe.

 

[1635yankee]

WWII DE names might be a good source. Ships from the Taffy force for stance.

What was the Taffy force, never heard of that one?

See, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar

"Taffy 1," "Taffy 2," and "Taffy 3" were the sub-units of Task Group 77.4 at the Battle off Samar. Taffy 3 comprised 3 Fletcher class destroyers and 4 destroyer escorts with a total of about 23 5"/38 guns and a total of about 40 torpedoes. They quite literally charged a much more powerful Japanese force, which included at least one battleship, heavy and light cruisers, and destroyers.

 

[bobbymike]

Multiple Missiles & Lasers Eyed For Navy's New Frigate - Breaking Defense

"We have ample margin for this hull form," said Capt. Kevin Smith, the Navy’s frigate program manager. "Some of those could lead to direct energy type projects and other capability. But right now, just as an example for weight, we have at least 100 tons of margin for future upgrades."

breakingdefense.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

Navy: First Constellation Frigate Will Start Fabrication This Year as Shipyard Expands - USNI News

The first hull in a new Navy ship class in more than a decade is set to start construction later this year, the service’s program manager said this week. Fincantieri Marinette Marine plans to start fabrication of the future USS Constellation (FFG-62) in late summer or early fall following the...

news.usni.org

 

[TomS]

Navy: First Constellation Frigate Will Start Fabrication This Year as Shipyard Expands - USNI News

The first hull in a new Navy ship class in more than a decade is set to start construction later this year, the service’s program manager said this week. Fincantieri Marinette Marine plans to start fabrication of the future USS Constellation (FFG-62) in late summer or early fall following the...

news.usni.org

From this link, the latest Fincantieri FFG(X) data sheet.

 

[bring_it_on]

This is a good podcast that covers the program and where the yard is at with its investments. Also discussed is the potential of a second yard to be brought along if and when they look to expand the class or accelerate deliveries.

Defense & Aerospace Daily Podcast [Jan 11, 21] Fincantieri's Hunt on FFG-62 Way Ahead - Defense & Aerospace Report

On this episode of the DefAero Report Daily Podcast, sponsored by Bell, Vice Adm. Rick Hunt, USN Ret., president of Fincantieri Marinette Marine, discusses upgrades and modernization underway at his shipyards in Wisconsin, efforts to bring FFG-62, the future USS Constellation to life, as well as...

defaeroreport.com

 

[MihoshiK]

Found this one.

 

[TomS]

Slightly different angle (and not so good a render) but it shows off the NSM installation with 16 rounds.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Navy: Constellation Frigate, DDG(X) Programs Mark Start of 'Surface Ship Renaissance' - USNI News

The Navy already has models of the Constellation-class frigate and the upcoming DDG(X) destroyer in the water at Naval Surface Warfare Center Carderock in Maryland and is using a new set of engineering best practices to guide the development of both programs, several Navy officials explained...

news.usni.org

On frigate, Filling said the program formally kicked off before Congress passed the FY 2020 defense bill, so it wasn’t bound by the new requirements. Still, he said, the Navy had already been moving in a similar direction, and so the frigate development plan gives a glimpse of what’s to come for DDG(X).

One of the most important things the frigate program did was craft the capability development document at the Navy level instead of with the Joint Staff. This allowed the Navy to share detailed specifications with potential shipbuilders from the start, and as shipbuilders proposed ideas that could drive down cost or boost performance, the Navy on its own could update requirements in both the CDD and the specifications. Filling said the end result was a design that is affordable, producible and ensured the shipbuilder’s voice was captured in the process.

“Right now at the maneuvering and seakeeping basin out at Carderock there is a segmented frigate model running in the basin right now, running alongside several other surface ships, so it’s good to see a surface ship renaissance out there at Carderock,” he said.

Even though the Constellation-class (FFG-62) design is based off the FREMM multi-mission frigate operated by the French and Italian navies, the length and beam were increased to meet Navy specifications, so the altered hull will need to go through testing to ensure the new dimensions are effective on the high seas, Filling said.

Filling also said he and his counterparts at NAVSEA’s engineering directorate (SEA 05) were conducting formal Systems Engineering Technical Reviews (SETRs) on frigate components. Frigate contractor Fincantieri brought with it many of its original equipment manufacturers, but the Navy is still conducting a full detail design process to ensure that, as some components are moved to U.S.-based manufacturing plants or swapped for new American components, the systems still work well together in the final frigate design.

Because the frigate program started before the FY 2020 defense bill passed, it is not technically required to create a land-based engineering site – but Filling said the Navy is making plans right now to set one up at Naval Surface Warfare Center Philadelphia, where most of the other LBESs will be located.

“Maybe [we’re] a little bit behind where we’d like to be in the newly envisioned STA process, but we’re working fast to get that done,” he said of building an LBES to support the frigate program.

 

[TomcatViP]

Apparently Greek shipbuilding industry is being offered cooperation with the FFG(X) program, as well as a chance to build the hulls for three of four planned MMSCs. I suspect this is a plan to establish basically a lead-follow relationship between Marinette and Onex and prepare the Greek yard to build the MMSCs and then some FFG(X) for the Greek Navy in the future. (And I'll bet the European FREMM builders are thrilled about that idea...) I guess this could be part of the "Joint Strike Frigate' concept above, though it is basically a conventional shipbuilding-for-export co-production model, not some radical new idea.

Hellenic Navy plans to purchase four American-made Multi-Mission Surfa

google_ad_client = "ca-pub-4068738923530102"; /* Navy Recognition 468x15 link */ google_ad_slot = "6873402760"; google_ad_width = 468; google_a

www.navyrecognition.com

Greek seems to have chosen the French Frigats in a €5b deal

Greek City Times – Greek City Times

Greek NEWS. Breaking news about Greece its people, politics and economy from the Greek city times, the leading source of information for Greece. Greek City Times is the leading International Greek news portal and news agency.

greekcitytimes.com

 

[TomS]

Timing is probably better for Greece, if nothing else. MMSC isn't a great fit for their needs and Belharra is probably available sooner than FFG(X). getting a couple of LaFayettes is definitely useful.

Do we know if the drawing with armament and so forth in the article is specific to the Greek examples?

 

[Grey Havoc]

From back in January:

Final design and technical review of future Constellation-Class FFG 62 frigate for US Navy

Artist rendering of final design and technical review of the Future Constellation Class FFG 62 frigate that is being developed by Fincantieri Marinette Marine for the US Navy.

www.navyrecognition.com

 

[MihoshiK]

Absolutely not official, but this link will give a nice idea of how she should look:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/289gyB

 

[bring_it_on]

The shipbuilder also has an official render of the final configuration on its website -

PINK Victorias Secret dark grey thermal metallic gold star romper - medium buy cheap new

authentic online grey dark Secret Victorias PINK thermal medium - romper star gold metallic buy cheap new - futurefrigate.com

futurefrigate.com

 

[uk 75]

I hope the new frigate has a happier history than its aircraft carrier namesake

USS Constellation (CV-64) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Grey Havoc]

With a second frigate yard competition on the horizon, Austal USA moves to add steel shipbuilding

Austal broke ground in March on a new facility that could make it a contender as a second shipyard for the Navy's new Constellation-class frigate program.

www.defensenews.com

 

[aonestudio]

Rolls-Royce has received a contract for the first shipset to provide four mtu naval generator sets, each rated at 3000 kWe at 1800 rpm.
The generator sets are based on the mtu 20V 4000 M53B engine and provide a total power output of 12 MW for propulsion and on-board power supply.

Rolls-Royce to supply mtu generator sets for U.S. Navy frigate program

Rolls-Royce to supply <em>mtu</em> generator sets for U.S. Navy frigate program

www.rolls-royce.com

 

[aonestudio]

US Navy Exercises Option for its Second Guided Missile Frigate

WASHINGTON — The Navy awarded a contract option to Fincantieri Marinette Marine to build its second Constellation Class Guided Missile Frigate, officials announced.

www.navy.mil

 

[SSgtC]

Good to see that the Navy is going back to traditional ship names. At least for some of their ships

 

[bobbymike]

Navy estimates $24.7B price tag for new frigate buy; unit cost in destroyer territory​

The Navy estimates the cost to develop and procure a fleet of 20 new guided-missile frigates is $24.7 billion, setting the average cost for each new FFG-62 Constellation-class warship at about $1.2 billion or slightly less than the current $1.3 billion price tag for DDG-51 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers

 

[SSgtC]

Navy estimates $24.7B price tag for new frigate buy; unit cost in destroyer territory​

The Navy estimates the cost to develop and procure a fleet of 20 new guided-missile frigates is $24.7 billion, setting the average cost for each new FFG-62 Constellation-class warship at about $1.2 billion or slightly less than the current $1.3 billion price tag for DDG-51 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers

Can't read the article since it requires a subscription, but I'm guessing that the cost includes the development costs. Whereas the development costs of the Burke have long since been amortized and the cost now is almost entirely the actual cost to build them

 

[isayyo2]

It's a bit unfair to compare a new design built a new yard, versus a known ship design being built at two yard simultaneously almost continuously since 1988. Now let's double the order and find a second yard, then we can compare prices!

Fincantieri dedicates all its US shipyards for Navy frigate orders

Fincantieri is to use all three of its U..S shipyards to build new FFG(X) frigates and will hire 600 more staff by year-end to handle the work, a company official said following the U.S. Navy’s order for a second vessel out of a potential 10 in total.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Hood]

I thought the USN's FY2020 budget submission had estimated a cost of $850-950M for subsequent ships fairly recently?

In real terms there is actually not that much between a Burke and a Constellation, its physical size (length, beam, draught) is actually more or less identical so even ignoring pre-fabrication etc. material costs are not going to be widely different. It still has SPY-6, has an expensive suite of sonars and presumably modern quieting features that also cost money. Chopping the VLS silos and fitting a 57mm pop-gun is not going to save a massive amount of money.
You can't simply build a cheap frigate unless you put nothing in it (see Type 31 and all the £250M price tag that was never met and ended up with everything being fitted for but not with).

Even this price is only equal to around 10 F-35C's at LRIP-14 prices....

 

[starviking]

I thought the USN's FY2020 budget submission had estimated a cost of $850-950M for subsequent ships fairly recently?

In real terms there is actually not that much between a Burke and a Constellation, its physical size (length, beam, draught) is actually more or less identical so even ignoring pre-fabrication etc. material costs are not going to be widely different. It still has SPY-6, has an expensive suite of sonars and presumably modern quieting features that also cost money. Chopping the VLS silos and fitting a 57mm pop-gun is not going to save a massive amount of money.
You can't simply build a cheap frigate unless you put nothing in it (see Type 31 and all the £250M price tag that was never met and ended up with everything being fitted for but not with).

Even this price is only equal to around 10 F-35C's at LRIP-14 prices....

Well, the Constellation only has one gas turbine to the Burke's four, and there's a big win in manning: 200 vs around 320.

I'd guess the gas trubine count will lead to less strain on the fleet train, and the lower headcount either more ships in operation or less personnel costs - take your pick.

 

[SSgtC]

I'd guess the gas trubine count will lead to less strain on the fleet train, and the lower headcount either more ships in operation or less personnel costs - take your pick.

Or alternatively, you can have more ships to cover more missions. Or more ships to provide a proper rotation for maintenance and crew rest.

 

[totallyaverage]

Navy estimates $24.7B price tag for new frigate buy; unit cost in destroyer territory​

The Navy estimates the cost to develop and procure a fleet of 20 new guided-missile frigates is $24.7 billion, setting the average cost for each new FFG-62 Constellation-class warship at about $1.2 billion or slightly less than the current $1.3 billion price tag for DDG-51 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers

In what universe does a Burke cost $1.3bn in 2021 dollars?

 

[Jimmo952]

Navy estimates $24.7B price tag for new frigate buy; unit cost in destroyer territory​

The Navy estimates the cost to develop and procure a fleet of 20 new guided-missile frigates is $24.7 billion, setting the average cost for each new FFG-62 Constellation-class warship at about $1.2 billion or slightly less than the current $1.3 billion price tag for DDG-51 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers

In what universe does a Burke cost $1.3bn in 2021 dollars?

Exactly.

 

[Josh_TN]

I thought the Burke IIIs were north of 2 billion? But as someone else noted, the real savings will probably be expressed in terms of cost of manning and cost of fuel over the life of the ship, and I suspect those operating savings will be severe given the far more efficient cruising/slow speed and a manning level almost half that of the Burke.

 

[aonestudio]

Naval Station Everett Future Homeport for New Constellation Class Frigates

EVERETT, Wash. - Naval Station Everett was designated as the Navy's future homeport for the initial ships of the next generation of guided missile frigates, a new and improved class of small surface

www.navy.mil

 

[Josh_TN]

Random FFGX question: does this class dispense with PRARIE/MASKER? That has been on every USN escort for half a century I believe, but I’ve not heard of FFGX being equipped with it ever.

 

[bring_it_on]

I thought the Burke IIIs were north of 2 billion? But as someone else noted, the real savings will probably be expressed in terms of cost of manning and cost of fuel over the life of the ship, and I suspect those operating savings will be severe given the far more efficient cruising/slow speed and a manning level almost half that of the Burke.

Yes, It's about $2 Billion or more for the Flight III's. LSC is probably going to be closer to $3 Billion so these Frigates at around $1-1.2 Billion are a more affordable way of building capacity and also frees up money for the LSC (we would have been buying the more expensive Flight III's if it wasn't for the FFG(X) because the LCS doesn't cut it). Now if they'll get going with picking a second yard and making sure that we are buying at least 4 a year before the end of the decade.

 

[TomS]

let's be honest, no one wants to see a ship named Congress or President right now

I have to eat some words here. Apparently FFG-63 will be USS Congress. That certainly bodes well for using a bunch of other traditional names.

https://www.nvr.navy.mil/SHIPDETAILS/SHIPSDETAIL_FFG_63.HTML

 

[Josh_TN]

That’s one way to guarantee funding....

 

[Moose]

Should have just gone ahead and named the next one President in the same release, even if it's "early" for that hull I don't think there would be excess complaints about those two names being together.

 

[TomS]

Should have just gone ahead and named the next one President in the same release, even if it's "early" for that hull I don't think there would be excess complaints about those two names being together.

Apparently FFG-64 is Chesapeake. Another excellent namesake.

 

[SSgtC]

Should have just gone ahead and named the next one President in the same release, even if it's "early" for that hull I don't think there would be excess complaints about those two names being together.

Apparently FFG-65 is Chesapeake. Another excellent namesake.

Ahhhh, the Yankee Racehorse

 

[TomS]

Wonder if they will recycle Bonhomme Richard so soon after the fire. It would be an excellent frigate name. And a perfect one to pair with Alliance.

 

[Lc89]

Chris Kyle?