Fauvel Projects

[hesham]

the AV.29 was appeared in four variants,the 29M,the AV.29 as a two-seat fighter similar to 29M,the
AV.29-I was also a two-seat fighter powered by two 1000 hp HS 12Y 50/51s,and the AV.29-II a two-
seat fighter with 1200 hp P & W engines.

My dear Cluttonfred,

I explained most of them before as displaying,the AV.29C.2 was
developed from AV.29 I & II,the source was TU magazine,issue 204,
and some anther French magazines,but I can't remember their
names.

 

[hesham]

In my files,

during late of 1939,Fauvel had some interested little known Projects;

- a three-seat twin engined multi-role combat airplane Project.

- a three-seat twin engined co-operation airplane Project,with fixed landing gear.

- a twin-engined two-seat fighter Project with central fuselage
likes AV.29,with two canons mounted at the engines,no more
details are remembered by me.

 

[lark]

What is the meaning of this Hesham ?

 

[hesham]

What is the meaning of this Hesham ?

You are right my dear Lark,

I translate it wrong,it was a twin-engined two seat Fighter Project of
1938,mounted two canons above the two engines and anther two
guns in the wing,here it's.

 

[hesham]

In my files,

during late of 1939,Fauvel had some interested little known Projects;

- a three-seat twin engined multi-role combat airplane Project.

Here it's;

 

[hesham]

In my files,

during late of 1938/39,Fauvel had some interested little known Projects;

- a three-seat twin engined multi-role combat airplane Project.

- a three-seat twin engined co-operation airplane Project,with fixed landing gear.

- a twin engined medium bomber Project of 1938

- a single seat fighter Project of 1938,powered by one 12 cylinder engine

 

[cluttonfred]

What happened to the three-seat,twin-engine co-operation airplane project with fixed landing gear? That's the one that I figured must be the military derivative of the AV-29M.

 

[hesham]

What happened to the three-seat,twin-engine co-operation airplane project with fixed landing gear? That's the one that I figured must be the military derivative of the AV-29M.

Maybe,frankly I don't know more.

 

[hesham]

and also a flying boat project of 1938,from the same site;

http://modelarchives.free.fr/Bestiaire/Fauvel_P/index.html

It was a patrol and observation flying boat Project,powered by two radial engines.

 

[hesham]

and also a flying boat project of 1938,from the same site;

http://modelarchives.free.fr/Bestiaire/Fauvel_P/index.html

It was a patrol and observation flying boat Project,powered by two radial engines.

In my files,

there was alternative design to this flying boat patrol and observation concept,a twin fuselage,but also
powered by two engines,remained a Project only.

 

[hesham]

and also a flying boat project of 1938,from the same site;


http://modelarchives.free.fr/Bestiaire/Fauvel_P/index.html

In my files,

there was a Project for two-seat twin engined seaplane fighter,had two canons,and its two floats could
be retractable in maiden flight,it was also a twin-fuselage configuration.

 

[hesham]

From Ailes 9/1945,

here is a full Info about two Projects,AV.17 and AV.101.

 

[hesham]

From, French Aerplanes before the Great War,

Charles Fauvel designed and built a canard monoplane in 1912.

 

[hesham]

the Fauvel AV-29 variants are; AV-29,AV-29-I,AV-29-II,AV-29C.2 & AV-29M

From Aviation Magazine 1951,

the AV-29-I had estimated speed of 700 km/h.

 

[Retrofit]

From, French Aerplanes before the Great War,

Charles Fauvel designed and built a canard monoplane in 1912.

Well, Charles Fauvel is born at Angers on December 1904, the 31th!
So he is supposed to have built this canard monoplace at 8!!!
The first project, I think, from Fauvel is the MF-1, a cantilever high wing side by side 2-seat aircraft designed with Pierre Massanet in 1927.
A model was tested in the St Cyr l'Ecole Institut Aérotechnique's wind tunnel.

 

[topspeed3]

Maybe he was a wunderkind ?

 

[Retrofit]

In my files,

during late of 1939,Fauvel had some interested little known Projects;

- a three-seat twin engined multi-role combat airplane Project.

- a three-seat twin engined co-operation airplane Project,with fixed landing gear.

This 3-seat twin engine co-operation project was the AV-20 (August 1937).
It was presented in the "Revue de l'Armée de l'Air" that same year in the essay titled "Possibilités militaires de la formule sans-queue Fauvel" by Capitaine Charles Fauvel. (with the description as mentioned Cluttonfred post #36, except for the scale model function)

The AV-29M was a scale-down tandem 2-seat single-seat model of the AV-29C2 fighter, and was designed in 1939.
Specifications as detailed in cluttonfred post

 

[hesham]

My dear Retrofit,

so weird,but are you sure about that designation ?.

 

[Retrofit]

Just a note at the bottom of a paper indicating "AV 20 Triplace Tourisme Aout 37" (AV 20 / 3-seat tourism / August 1937).

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

I have been perusing late '50s/early '60s EAA Sport Aviation magazines and this two part article on Fauvel was worth sharing.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Retrofit]

Indeed, but the Fauvel's proposal in 1938 was the "assymetric" AV-28 shown in your first post.
This project was not selected due to its assymetry but the "symetric" 2-seat, twin engine AV-29I was retained in 1939.
Studies on the scale-down single-seat prototype AV-29M were stopped in February 1940 due to the war.

In 1937, the 7 proposals were just concepts using Fauvel's flying plank configuration for different types of military missions:
- the twin engine land fighter of your reply #8 and a (retractable floats) seaplane fighter directly derived from this land fighter.
- the two projects of your reply #1
- the flying boat of your reply #3
- the bomber project refered as AV-33 in your first post.
- and a "colonial" 3-seat aircraft which seems to be the project labeled as AV-29M in your first post.

Dear Hesham,

More info concerning the 7 proposals presented by Charles Fauvel in a magazine dated Sept. 1937 under the tittle "Possibilités militaires de la formule sans-queue Fauvel" (Military applications of the Fauvel tailless aircraft concept):
The Figure 1 "Triplace de combat" (3-seat combat aircraft) corresponds to the AV.13
The Figure 2 "Bimoteur biplace de chasse" (2-seat twin-engine fighter) corresponds to the AV.19bis
The Figure 3 "Appareil de bombardement" (Bomber aircraft) corresponds to the AV.11
The Figure 4 "Appareil monoplace de chasse" (Single-seat fighter) corresponds to the AV.12
The Figure 5 "Petit bimoteur de tourisme" (Small twin-engine touring aircraft) corresponds to the AV.20
The Figure 6 "Hydravion de surveillance, d'exploration et de bombardement" (reconnaissance-bomber flying boat) corresponds to ??? (AV.11 extrapolation?)
The Figure 7 "Hydravion bimoteur biplace de chasse" (2-seat twin-engine float plane) corresponds to the AV.19ter

 

[hesham]

Amazing find my dear Retrofit,

There was also a "Triplace de cooperation" Project,powered
by two 6 cylinder engines,and had a fixed landing gear ?,maybe
it was AV.16 ?.

 

[hesham]

Amazing find my dear Retrofit,

There was also a "Triplace de cooperation" Project,powered
by two 6 cylinder engines,and had a fixed landing gear ?,maybe
it was AV.16 ?.

My dear Retrofit,

there was also a twin engined surveillance seaplane Project in
this period,but had twin hull,maybe it was AV.18 ?.

 

[Retrofit]

Amazing find my dear Retrofit,

There was also a "Triplace de cooperation" Project,powered
by two 6 cylinder engines,and had a fixed landing gear ?,maybe
it was AV.16 ?.

Thank you Hesham
The "triplace de coopération" powered by two 6 cylinder engines, is also the AV.20.
In his article, Fauvel presented a new kind of "appareils civils mobilisables" (civil aircraft incoporated in the army) with his 3-seat touring aircraft (with the pilot in front and two passengers in the back seats) which, in case of conflict, is modified by military facilities into a cooperation aircraft by replacing the solid nose by a transparent one equiped with a machine-gun. The front seat is removed to give place to the prone observer. The rear left passenger place is transformed into a pre-equiped pilot position and the right one give place to a rear firing machine-gun handled by a third crew.

 

[Retrofit]

Amazing find my dear Retrofit,

There was also a "Triplace de cooperation" Project,powered
by two 6 cylinder engines,and had a fixed landing gear ?,maybe
it was AV.16 ?.

My dear Retrofit,

there was also a twin engined surveillance seaplane Project in
this period,but had twin hull,maybe it was AV.18 ?.

The "twin hull surveillance seaplane" project was probably the AV.7 dated 1932 (catamaran flying boat powered by 3 Gipsy engines above the wing with pusher propellers).
The AV.16 corresponds to a twin 500hp-engine transport aircraft project dated 1936.
The AV.18 was a small single-seat aircraft project dated 1937.

BTW, I am looking for photos of AV-36 gliders operated in Argentina, Brasil and USA, as well as photo and info about an AV-45 powered-glider tested in Japan, then, it seems, in South Africa.
Thanks in advance

 

[dan_inbox]

I am looking for ... photo and info about an AV-45 powered-glider tested in Japan, then, it seems, in South Africa.

Is this what you seek?

 

[Retrofit]

I am looking for ... photo and info about an AV-45 powered-glider tested in Japan, then, it seems, in South Africa.

Is this what you seek?
View attachment 651420

Thank you very much dan_inbox,
This AV-45, registrated F-CCAG, was the prototype (AV.45-01), modified later as AV.45R powered with a small microturbo jet engine.
AV-45.02 was registred F-CCRY. It was manufactured by the SAN company (Société Aéronautique Normande)
AV.45-03 was registrated F-CRRG.
Several amateur-built constructions were started (including in Finland, USA, etc ...) but the first one finished and tested was in Japan by an homebuilder which later moved to South Africa.

 

[hesham]

The "twin hull surveillance seaplane" project was probably the AV.7 dated 1932 (catamaran flying boat powered by 3 Gipsy engines above the wing with pusher propellers).

No my dear Retrofit,

the source was TU magazine,and they knew very well AV.7,and
it was related to 1936/37 period,so maybe it was AV.21 ?.

 

[Retrofit]

The "twin hull surveillance seaplane" project was probably the AV.7 dated 1932 (catamaran flying boat powered by 3 Gipsy engines above the wing with pusher propellers).

No my dear Retrofit,

the source was TU magazine,and they knew very well AV.7,and
it was related to 1936/37 period,so maybe it was AV.21 ?.

Interesting Hesham, it is possible
But the TU caption mentions "en alternative au précédent" (as an alternative to the previous one). Do you have details about this previous one (and what was the AV-7 for the Trait d'Union's team)?
Thanks in advance!

 

[hesham]

My dear Retrofit,

it was alternative concept to AV.11,but maybe developed from it
and it had anther designation ?.

 

[hesham]

A strange twin hull Fauvel fighter of 1938,who know more info about it .

That maybe a AV.21,and the numbers 21 & 22 were
appeared in 1937/38.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

and in this book,an article about Fauvel airplanes;

Histoire de l’aviation en Anjou – Aérobibliothèque

Histoire de l’aviation en Anjou - Le Maine-et-Loire n’est pas l’Anjou… et vice-versa ! Inutile donc de regretter le peu de place faite ici aux aviateurs de Saumur ou Cholet, car il s’agit bien de nous conter les amours angevines pour les sports aériens, amours variées qui défilent sous la plume...

www.aerostories.org

 

[hesham]

From this source.

 

[hesham]

Original drawings.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

as I think the design Av.36 was appeared in late 1930s ?,but began to develop
after the WWII.

 

[hesham]

From L'Aeronautique 1936.

 

[Stargazer]

This AV-45, registrated F-CCAG, was the prototype (AV.45-01), modified later as AV.45R powered with a small microturbo jet engine.
AV-45.02 was registred F-CCRY. It was manufactured by the SAN company (Société Aéronautique Normande)
AV.45-03 was registrated F-CRRG.
Several amateur-built constructions were started (including in Finland, USA, etc ...) but the first one finished and tested was in Japan by an homebuilder which later moved to South Africa.

If we are to believe reliable sources such as Pierre Gaillard's book Les avions français de 1944 à 1964, and also the very thorough website http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Fauvel/, that is not quite true (though I'll readily admit that the Fauvel AV-45 "Faucon" is a somewhat complicated subject!). According to these and other sources:

• There were only two AV-45 prototypes.
• The type was first named "Aérovoilier", then "Faucon", but the planes carried the names "Louis Peyret" and "Louis Peyret II" on their sides.
• They were initially powered with a two-stroke 25 hp Solo engine, and later with a 35 hp Nelson H.59 A.
• AV-45 01 was registered [F-CCAG] and first flew in 1960.
• AV-45 02 was an improved version built by SAN (Société Aéronautique Normande) in Bernay, and registered [F-CCHR]; it first flew in 1962.
• Both examples were first flown by Charles Fauvel himself.
• AV-45 01 was equipped in 1967 with an 80 kg thrust Microturbo "Éclair" jet engine, becoming the AV-45 01 R.
• AV-45 01 R was acquired by Bernard Ponsot in 1978 and reverted to propeller configuration with 35 hp Rockwell engine and new registration [F-CRRY].
• Charles Fauvel developed an improved version, the AV-451 (or AV-45.1). Carrying c/n 13, it was built by brothers Roger and François Gross in Baccarat, powered by a Rotax 642 engine. Registered [F-CRRM], it was first flown in September 1978.
• An all-plastic version of the AV-451, the AV-48, was planned, but both the death of Fauvel and the destruction of the workshop in a fire put an end to the project.

Although there were a few AV-45 built in Japan, the U.S. and Europe, I'm confused by your mention of a third prototype, especially since "F-CCRY", resembles [F-CRRY], the 1978 re-registration of aircraft #1. Do you have a source (preferably a picture) for that?

 

[Retrofit]

Although there were a few AV-45 built in Japan, the U.S. and Europe, I'm confused by your mention of a third prototype, especially since "F-CCRY", resembles [F-CRRY], the 1978 re-registration of aircraft #1. Do you have a source (preferably a picture) for that?

My bad!

AV.45 n°01: 1st flight: 4/05/1960. Registered F-WCAG, then F-CCAG (Registration F-PYEY reserved but not used), finally F-CRRY
AV.45 n°02: 1st flight 26/06/1962. Registered F-WCHR , then F-CCHR
AV.45 n°03: 1st flight 27/11/1971. Registration F-WCHS reserved (by SAN?) but not used. Registered F-WRRG then F-CRRG.
AV.45 n°3: 1st homebuilt (by Backelman). Japanese JA registration (if any) unknown. Then ZS-UEC in South Africa.
AV.451 n°13: 1st flight 1979. Registration F-WRRM, then F-CRRM

 

[Retrofit]

Perhaps our japanese members can help tracing history of Backelman's AV.45 n°3 in Japan, before moving to South Africa?
Many thanks in advance.