Fairchild FX fighter project (rival to the McDonnell-Douglas F-15)

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Company Accelerates F-15 Design Efforts

Company efforts to win the designand production contract for the new Air Force F-15 air superiority fighter continue to accelerate with the Contract Definition phase competition now past the half way mark.

Assigned the highest priority by Fairchild Hiller, the F-15 has focused on it the talents of hundreds of engineers, management and design specialists.

The company’s design proposal must be submitted to the Air Force by June 30 with supporting cost data to follow not later than 31 July.

Evaluation of contractor proposals is expected to, take several months. The Air Force has announced that it will select a contractorfor the F-15 by the end of the year.

Other Developments

Meanwhile, there were these other significant developments in the F-15 program.

• Colonel Robert White, Air Force SPO, and a team of experts assigned to the System Program Office completed the first Program Review at Republic Aviation Division. A Program Review is just what its name implies. Company progress is checked to determine which program areas require management attention.

• Air Force officials delineated the differences between the Air Force F-15 and Navy F-14 fighter programs and scotched reports that efforts were being made to have the F-14 adopted as an all-service fighter.

• Edward G. Uhl, Fairchild Hiller President, told Republic Division employees: “We are Air Force contractors and very proud of it. Our Republic Division has
supplied the Air Force with over 25.000 fighters. We have the people. We have the resources. We have what I believe is the best F-15
design.”

• The Air Force announced that responsibility for F-15 logistics management has been assigned to Air Forcc Logistics Command’s Warner Robins Air Material Area (WRAMA) in Georgia.

Discount Rumors

• Dr. Norman Grossman, Fairchild Hiller Vice President and F-15 Program Manager, said the Long Island. N. Y., location of the Republic Division plant is no handicap to Fairchild Hiller efforts to win the F-15.

He discounted rumors concerning possible reluctance to award the Air Force fighter to Fairchild Hiller simply because Grumman Aircraft Engineering Company, also based on Long Island, has a contract to build the Navy’s F-14 fighter.

The Air Force has emphasized that what it wants is to get the best fighter possible and that it would be unwise to put contractor selection on any other basis, Dr. Grossman pointed out.

Long Island has the skilled labor force required as well as a tradition of building outstanding fighter aircraft for the military services, he said.

Highest Priority

Development of the F-15 has been given the highest Air Force priority. The Air Force has described it as a highly maneuverable, single place, twin engine, jet fighter to become operational in the mid-1970s.

Its purpose will be to gain air superiority over the enemy and absolute supremacy over the battlefield, according to Gen. J. P. McConnell, Air Force Chief of Staff.

The Air Force has assigned a group of fighter pilots to its System Program Office at Wright Patterson AFB to help design the new fighter. The office is headed by Col. Robert White.

Republic designed and built the last fighter designed solely for the Air Force. That was the F-105 Thunderchief which has earned a reputation in Southeast Asia as ‘the finest aircraft in the war." The F-105 is considered the Air Force’s No. 1 fighter-bombcr.

Fairchild Hiller News April 1969

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Skilled Fighter Team Directs Company’s F-15 Design Effort

Farmingdale — On a door of the office of the Air Force Chief of Staff is a red. blue and gold sign which defines (he purpose of the Air Force in one sentence: “The mission of the United States Air Force is to fly and fight and don’t you ever forget it.” Initially it was the motto of the F-105 Thunderchief - equipped 388th Tactical Fighter Wing based ( at Korat. Thailand. Today it guides the efforts of the skilled Fairchild Hiller fighter team designing the next Air Force lighter, the F-15. to outfly and outfight anything that may fly against it.

Several members of the F-15 design team at the company’s Republic Division had major roles in the development of the F-105, which General William F. Momyer. Commander Tactical Air Command and former commander of the Seventh Air Force in Vietnam, called “the finest aircraft in the war.” “The combat experience we have gained with the one-oh-five is going directly into the F-15 design." Dr. Norman Grossman, Fairchild Hiller Vice President and F-15 Program Manager, said recently.

Combat Experience

“Flight characteristics and oper ational reliability of a new aircraft are most dependent on combat experience. The engineers and designers of the F-15 must have in their background the experience of having developed a modern combat-tested airplane. There no substitute.”

Like Dr. Grossman. several members of the Fairchild Hiller design team have been involved continuously in Air Force fighter development for more than 25 years.

Leaders of the F-15 design and engineering effort include John M. Williamson, System Engineering Director; Vincent J. Tizio. Manager Air Vehicle Design Department; Bert E. Sealander. Chief. Avionics Sub-systems; John Lyttle, Propulsion System Manager and Gordon Rosenthal, Chief. Air Vehicle Configuration.

James W. (Bill) Stroud is Manager of Integrated Logistics and Stanley Granowetter is Pro gram Administrator and Control Department Manager.

Two world renowned aeronautical engineers are principal advisors to the group. They are John Stack, Fairchild Hiller Vice President, who directed much of the research which led to supersonic flight, and Alexander Kartveli. the Russian born aircraft designer who created the P-47 Thunderbolt, the F-84 series Thundcrjct, Thunderstreak and Thunderflash, and the current F-105 Thunderchief.

Intense Study

The F-15 has been the subject of intense study by the company for more than five years, and Dr. Grossman has been directly involved. He joined the company’s Republic Aviation Division in 1943 as a research engineer in the P-47 program.

Subsequently he was Assistant Project Engineer on the F-84 jet aircraft series and during the development of the F-105 he was responsible, as Chief Equipment Engineer, for the Thundcrstick automatic flight control, navigation and bomb delivery system, at that time acknowledged as the most advanced of any fighter aircraft.

Tough Aircraft

John Williamson is another of the Fairchild Hiller F-15 team whose experience spans Air Force lighter development since World War II and the P-47. Mr. Williamson, who has had direct responsibility for many of the combat tested modifications to the F-105. said, “We have always been credited
with building tough aircraft. Combat experience with the F-105 has proved that the survivability of an aircraft and pilot can be appreciably improved and that experience is going into the F-15 design.”

Modern Fighters

Another who has been involved in building combat performance into modern fighters since 1945 is Vincent J. Tizio. He is recognized as an authority on supersonic and hypersonic vehicles.

“Since the F-15 air superiority goal demands the best match of pilot and aircraft, airframe design demands maximum agility,
maneuverability and high energy acceleration,” Mr. Tizio explained.

Inlet Design

John Lyttle is the design ten member responsible for the compatibility of engine, inlet and airframe, perhaps the most important geometry consideration for a modern fighter. Airframe and inlet in match so that the flow of air inlet experiences minimum distortion. This is essential to minimise compressor face distortion and prevent compressor stall — one of the problems that has confronted several new aircraft. Another detail in engine installation is that engine nozzles must be matched to the aft fuselage to minimize base drag

Electronic Systems

Bert E. Scalandcr, Chief, Avionics Sub-systems, joined the company in 1946 and has earned industry-wide reputation for the design and integration of sophisticated electronic flight control, navigation and weapons delivery systems. Since the Air Force Force requirement is for a single seat fighter, Mr. Sealander has primary concern that the myriad of complex and demanding tasks confronting the pilot of an advanced high performance aircraft are kept as few and straightforward as possibie.

High Speed

Gordon Rosenthal, a Canadian by birth, is the engineer responsible for the aerodynamic configuration of the Fairchild Hiller F-15. He has been primarily concerned with high speed aerodynamics and aircraft configuration since joining the company in 1958.

One of the most important and complex tasks in developing a new weapon system is Integrated Logistics Support. This phrase covers a mvriad of detail and for the F-15 responsibility has been assigned to James W. (Bill) Stroud, a former Air Force maintenance officer who joined the company in 1961.

For the program to move ahead on schedule, management vision must focus on each of the thousands of separate tasks and trade studies involved. Stanley Granwetter, who was a staff engineer during the F-105 program, keeps the Program Manager apprised of the progress being made on each [area?]

Company Reports Sharp Gain In First Quarter Earnings
[...]
“Our most significant long range accomplishments during 1968 resulted from our teamwork with Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corp. on the
Navy F-l4 and the Air Force F-15 air superiority fighters. We assisted Grumman in their winning of the F-14 and will manufacture a substantial
portion of the airframe as their teammate. In turn, they have assisted us in winning a contract definition phase award for the F-15 — obtained early in 1969 — and if we win the production contract, they will be a major subcontractor.”

Mr. Uhl was confident that the company would win the competition because he said “we have the best design and a great engineering team experienced in combat fighter design. Moreover, our cooperation with Grumman on the F-14 and F-15 will save the U.S. a considerable amount of money across both programs"

Fairchild Hiller News May 1969

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Deadline Nears For Proposal On AF Fighter

Farmingdale—With the detailed and comprehensive second F-15 Program Review successfully completed, the hundreds of engineers, management and design specialists who comprise Fairchild Hiller’s F-15 team are totally engaged in finalizing details of the company’s proposal.

June 30 is the deadline for submission of the company’s bid to design and produce the new air superiority fighter which has been given the highest priority by the Air Force. Supporting cost data must follow by July 31.

The Air Force SPO (System Project Office) team headed by Col. Robert White conducted the Program Review May 13 through 15 at Republic Aviation Division, focal-point of Fairchild Hiller’s company-wide involvement. The Review was termed “successful and on track” by company officials.

Challenging Requirement

Magnitude of the demanding requirement challenging the technical publication specialists on the F-15 design team is the sheer physical volume of the complex proposal.' There are 375 separate, bound documents comprising 22,000 pages in one complete proposal. Each includes approximately 5,400.000 words with 18.000 pages of text and 4,000 pages of illustration. Some 3,300 individual documents, each of which is a part of the total proposal, will be distributed to the .Air Force specialists who have the evaluation responsibility. Evaluation will take several months. The Air Force has announced it will select a contractor by the end of the year.

Fairchild Hiller News June 1969

 

[Scott Kenny]

Holy cow, Paul, that's a huge haul of stuff!!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

So we now know that Fairchild Hiller (Republic Avation division) worked with Grumman on the F-14, and Grumman in turn helped on the Fairchild Hiller F-15.

You can see similarities.

Grumman's own FX design was Model 399.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Fairchild Hiller (Republic Aviation Division) F-15 Team photos to complement the description above.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Robert Sanator interview about Republic is interesting. He briefly discusses the F-15 program and the belief within Republic that they had technically the better plane, and McDonnell-Douglas came in at the last minute and won on Air Force confidence in their management and company to deliver.

View: https://youtu.be/4YdG7A8sJpU

 

[ScrutorAudax]

Robert Sanator interview about Republic is interesting. He briefly discusses the F-15 program and the belief within Republic that they had technically the better plane, and McDonnell-Douglas came in at the last minute and won on Air Force confidence in their management and company to deliver.

View: https://youtu.be/4YdG7A8sJpU

Robert Sanator also co-authored "Investigation of Airframe-Inlet Interaction for Supersonic Tactical Fighter Aircraft", where the FX-8 configuration that the Fairchild F-15 was based on was shown. (DTIC AD0512542)

Defense Technical Information Center

apps.dtic.mil

 

[Pioneer]

Thanks Overscan, an awesome find and contribution!!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[ScrutorAudax]

Fairchild F-15 in Vietnam-era camouflage.

 

[ScrutorAudax]

https://airforcehistoryindex.org/data/001/001/128.xml

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

https://airforcehistoryindex.org/data/001/001/128.xml

I've requested a copy of this, along with another document on the North American Rockwell F-15, from AFHRA.

 

[Adm_von_Abrams]

I wonder how well Fairchild's design fare against McDonnell's in the wind tunnel testing. I assume it would have higher drag since it has a separate engine location but drag is not the only factor to consider no?

Also, I must say that the cranked delta wings on this plane looks really good.

 

[ScrutorAudax]

I wonder how well Fairchild's design fare against McDonnell's in the wind tunnel testing. I assume it would have higher drag since it has a separate engine location but drag is not the only factor to consider no?

Also, I must say that the cranked delta wings on this plane looks really good.

The podded engines would have caused lower aft end drag, which was a significant issue with the McDonnell-Douglas submission.

It's a shame we don't have more technical information (e.g. wing sections, planform dimensions) so drag calculations could be done somewhat accurately.

 

[cogashuko]

Fairchild F-15 (model number unknown)

Early VG configuration
Final submission- fixed wing

Do you have more pictures of this model or does anyone have more information on this earlier variation?

 

[Stargazer]

Do you have more pictures of this model or does anyone have more information on this earlier variation?

There is a three-view arrangement in Reply #35 ("FX-6").

 

[hesham]

If anyone can get this ?.

 

[cogashuko]

There is a three-view arrangement in Reply #35 ("FX-6").

The FX-6 is not quite the same. The model I'm referring to (post #1) shows double vertical stabilizers but no horizontal stabilizers. The second drawn picture seems to confirm the lack of horizontal stabilizers.

Overscan (paulmm), do you still have this model? Would you be willing to take more pictures or even part with it for some amount of money?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The picture is from an article by Tony Buttler ('Steps to the Big League') in Air Enthusiast November/December 2005. I seem to have mislaid my copy.

His book American Secret Projects - Fighters and Interceptors 1945-1976 has 3 black and white photos on page 177 and another colour view with wings swept back on page 221. Unusually, the pictures aren't credited.

I can ask Tony - he normally credits the owner of the model, so possibly these were just scanned photos.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Low res copies of the pics from ASP.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The model has no horizontal tails, and it doesn't show any signs that it used to. This is pretty unusual for a VG design, though there were a few British VG designs with no horizontal tails. It does seem to have two flaps between the engines and possibly wingtip devices of some kind?

 

[cogashuko]

Very interesting, thank you for posting the pictures. I really appreciate it. And all the information guys.

 

[TomcatViP]

Rear flap=Camber Variation = moment shift.

Move the flap down, the camber is increased, the moment shift forward. The nose goes down
Move the flap up, the camber is decreased, the moment shift backward, the nose goes up.

It's a bit counterintuitive (if you don't fly) but something we've got the get used with the 6th Gen tailless fighters (if they indeed end up looking like the renders).

 

[cogashuko]

It's definitely a very different looking aircraft, I wonder if underside looks much different from the other variants that we've been able to see.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Low res copies of the pics from ASP.

The first thought through my mind was, "oh, Macross Veritechs!"

 

[cogashuko]

The first thought through my mind was, "oh, Macross Veritechs!"

That's kind of what started me down this path. The distinct lack of horizontal stabilizers and over all shape definitely gave off veritech vibes. But also the fact that my grandpa may have helped out in some way, just makes it that much cooler.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Who was your grandpa? Did he work at Republic / Fairchild?

 

[cogashuko]

Who was your grandpa? Did he work at Republic / Fairchild?

Ben Rudnick, he worked at Republic Aviation long before the merger and my dad's birth, at the long Island site. My dad (born in 45) can remember watching with a crowd as a young boy that could only be the Gatling gun from the A10 warthog was being fired at a shack and exploding with only a small "burp" sound. The patent drawing I found for his process of photo engraving templates for body panels has him listed as Benjamin but that's actually not his name. He also pioneered a recording method with mirrors to watch pilots train with the cockpit instruments as well as the pilot's face in view.

He was a cool dude. I wish I could have met him more than a handful of times.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Overscan (paulmm), do you still have this model? Would you be willing to take more pictures or even part with it for some amount of money?

I can ask Tony - he normally credits the owner of the model, so possibly these were just scanned photos.

Tony Buttler says "I am pretty sure it was in the collection at the Cradle of Aviation Museum. The photos are my own, taken in 2005".

He says he may have some more pics he could share.

Or you could contact https://www.cradleofaviation.org and see if you can take your own photos.

 

[cogashuko]

Tony Buttler says "I am pretty sure it was in the collection at the Cradle of Aviation Museum. The photos are my own, taken in 2005".

He says he may have some more pics he could share.

Or you could contact https://www.cradleofaviation.org and see if you can take your own photos.

I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to Tony Butler, I will try to contact the cradle of aviation museum through the email you gave me. If I get a lead on anything or more pictures I will post them here of course.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

@cogashuko Tony Buttler rummaged around in his archive and came up with these awesome photographs he took.

Model span is 12in swept, 17.5in forward, length is 25in.

Thanks, Tony!

 

[cogashuko]

@cogashuko Tony Buttler rummaged around in his archive and came up with these awesome photographs he took.

Model span is 12in swept, 17.5in forward, length is 25in.

Thanks, Tony!

OMG thank you again for contacting him. And thank you Tony for finding that stuff, I'm know going through old archive stuff can be hard to find what you need. Speaking of which, I'm going to look for my grandfather's patent and find a good place to post it here on the forums. I kept hearing from my father about the shack being destroyed by what I can only imagine is an A10 warthog. But for the longest time I thought he said he saw an old real/8mm of it. Unfortunately I believe he was just there in person so I don't think I can dredge up any old footage. Sorry about that one guys.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Assumption is the model is 1/32 scale meaning length is 20.32m, span is 9.75m swept, 14.2m unswept.

 

[babyaligators]

Hey all. So my father worked for Fairchild Hiller Republic Aviation at the time of the F-15. My mother had mentioned that there was an article written about him in a paper on Long Island (or nearby) as he was the youngest designer to work on such a project(?) In any case, his name is Thomas M McCarthy. If anyone happens to run across anything about him I would appreciate it so much if you could pass it along to me. Thank you!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Hey all. So my father worked for Fairchild Hiller Republic Aviation at the time of the F-15. My mother had mentioned that there was an article written about him in a paper on Long Island (or nearby) as he was the youngest designer to work on such a project(?) In any case, his name is Thomas M McCarthy. If anyone happens to run across anything about him I would appreciate it so much if you could pass it along to me. Thank you!

Had a quick look, couldn't find anything.

 

[hesham]

Hey all. So my father worked for Fairchild Hiller Republic Aviation at the time of the F-15. My mother had mentioned that there was an article written about him in a paper on Long Island (or nearby) as he was the youngest designer to work on such a project(?) In any case, his name is Thomas M McCarthy. If anyone happens to run across anything about him I would appreciate it so much if you could pass it along to me. Thank you!

Welcome aboard,

and please if you have a drawings or early concepts to this design,you can share it.

Unfortunately,these's nothing about him in Google's books ?.