F-22 and F-35 double seaters

Matej said:
Double seater derived from F-22 is highly unlikely simply because the F-22 is in fact single purpose fighter. So there is only a need of training, that can be with the state of the art computer technology fully satisfied.

But with the much universal F-35, well, this is the real question for the future. In the electronic jamming variant or attack/strike variant the second crew member should be very handy.
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A 2-seat F-22 or F-35 would be very handy to wrangle all those Loyal Wingman drones.


JoeinTX said:
The only place a tandem version of either would be needed is for dedicated special aerial ops where the workload is simply too high for one person and a second set of eyes is necessary......SEAD......AEW........possibly nuclear delivery, etc.
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Wrangling Loyal Wingman drones...



chuck4 said:
The insinuation that more, rather than less, than one pilot would be needed is a step in the wrong direction towards a pilot free drone world.
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The AH-64E MUMT projects have shown that you absolutely need a second pilot/drone operator to keep flying the manned plane while also flying the drone.
 
An USMC aviator from the now deactivated Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron (VMFAT) 101 mentioned on the Fighter Pilot Podcast, that they would like a modern two-seater fighter jet for close air support. IMHO eighter a F/A-18F(AW) aka "F/A-18M(arines)" or a CTOL two-seater F-35 just for the USMC. But the USMC brass want only to invest in the single-seat F-35B and F-35C.
 
fightingirish said:
An USMC aviator from the now deactivated Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron (VMFAT) 101 mentioned on the Fighter Pilot Podcast, that they would like a modern two-seater fighter jet for close air support. IMHO eighter a F/A-18F(AW) aka "F/A-18M(arines)" or a CTOL two-seater F-35 just for the USMC. But the USMC brass want only to invest in the single-seat F-35B and F-35C.
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I understand why the USMC is trying to only have a single fast jet in their inventory, it's a pretty big logistical savings. The problem is that the USMC alone doesn't have enough power to get LockMart to make a 2-seater F-35.

Maybe once the USAF and USN realize that they need a back seater to wrangle drones they'll pay for a 2-seat version of the F-35A, which can be ported into a 2-seat F-35C.
 
How hard would it be to put a second seat and canopy in place of the lift fan (so not F-35B obviously) ? TF-35A and TF-35C ?
 
Archibald said:
How hard would it be to put a second seat and canopy in place of the lift fan (so not F-35B obviously) ? TF-35A and TF-35C ?
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According to some old LockMart plans, not very. The 2-seater As/Cs would lose about 75nmi of range due to taking up part of the fuel tank. And I believe it's been designed already, they'd just need to make tooling to make the parts.

However, a 2-seat B would be a very serious redesign, stretching the forward fuselage about 4-6 feet, with attendant changes to center of gravity limits and location. Much like the TAV-8s got a stretched nose. This would be very expensive and time consuming to do.

I was going for F-35D/E/F for the 2-seater designations, as full combat drone wranglers. D for standard, E for STOVL, F for CATOBAR.
 
Scott Kenny said:
According to some old LockMart plans, not very. The 2-seater As/Cs would lose about 75nmi of range due to taking up part of the fuel tank. And I believe it's been designed already, they'd just need to make tooling to make the parts.
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Would these official Lockheed Martin TF-35A/TF-35C plans happen to be accessible anywhere on the internet?
 
What is the point of having a two seater with less range? SHirley they will have to be accompanied by single seaters and commonality of mission ability would assist mission planning immenseley.....

Note to self, "Shut up that is logical, never happen".
 
Foo Fighter said:
What is the point of having a two seater with less range? SHirley they will have to be accompanied by single seaters and commonality of mission ability would assist mission planning immenseley.....

Note to self, "Shut up that is logical, never happen".
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As mentioned previously - SEAD/DEAD and (most likely) drone control. Even with the amount of automation in the single-seat F-35, having a second crew member in the plane to control loyal wingmen is a more appealing proposition.

I am not certain that a reduced-range 2-seater would have a drastically different mission set to the single-seat F-35 in any of the theaters the USA expects to be entering in the near future, however.
 
If the main mission of the F-35/2 is drone control, then there would be no reason for it to not carry a pair of LO-designed drop tanks - much like those that have been tested for the F-22A.

An internal payload of just A-A missiles and the external tanks should do the trick.
 

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