F-117A prior to unveiling: artists impressions and kits of the 'F-19 Stealth Fighter' in mass culture

[Grey Havoc]

Quite possible.

 

[Ravinoff]

These were posted already years ago, but I figured I'd upload the two Loral Attila Hejja ads in clean, complete and high-res form. Absolutely love both of these.

 

[allysonca]

So, I just came upon this thread and I thought I would give all of the contributors an interesting fact. There was a LORAL advertisement (see above) that featured the mythical F-19 if you all recall. Well, my friend, Al Parker, once of Marketing Aids fame, and then the Model Shop Manager at Hughes in Fullerton (a master model maker in his own right) made his interpretation of the "aircraft" in model form and sold it to his friends (me included) and then ultimately to Jan Halverson of Toys and Models (who had them made in the Philippines). You can tell Al's original version as it had the rounded canards and Jan's had the tapered canards like in the picture on the right. Al's was the foundation for all of the stories and conjectures that ran rampant for years. Also, Testors models copied Al's. Now on the "fun facts" side, Al was visited at his office at Hughes by the Men in Black (or was it Gray) who questioned him for many hours, looking for a security breach that may have occurred. Put the scare in him for quite a while............

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

These were posted already years ago, but I figured I'd upload the two Loral Attila Hejja ads in clean, complete and high-res form. Absolutely love both of these.

The one on the left is a fake advert.

 

[Dynoman]

Interesting article on how John Andrews of Testor designed the F-19, the sources, influences, and methodology of his design, and the company's ethical concerns on accidentally divulging stealth technology.

Tempest in a Toy Box : The Stealth Fighter Is So Secret the Pentagon Won't Admit It Exists. John Andrews Shocked Everyone by Building a Model of It. To Tell the Truth, He Says, It Wasn't All That Much Trouble.

Last spring, the Testor model kit company of Rockford, Ill., introduced its model of the super-secret F-19 stealth fighter and immediately created an international sensation.

www.latimes.com

 

[Richard N]

I was told that at an IPMS Nationals (might have been Seattle) and before the F-117 was revealed, a model showed up on the display tables that had stealth design characteristics like aligned edges and other not commonly known details. Someone of consequence noticed it and it was soon surrounded by suits and removed, not to be seen again.

Anyone else heard about this?

 

[The Artist]

Cutaways god Mike Badrocke's and Bill Sweetman's collective impressions of a 'stealth fighter'. It was 1986 on the backyard. Already then Sweetman was aknowledged that real aircraft use faceting LO technology.
(Bill Sweetman 'Stealth Aircraft: Secrets of Future Airpower', Motorbooks International, 1986)

A scratch-built i'72 scale model of "Lockheed Stealth Fighter" of which flateric posted the drawings from Sweetman's Stealth Aircraft book has come into the collection of the Greater St. Louis Air & Space Museum. A local member of an IPMS Chapter was commissioned to build the model for the Mascoutah Aerospace Museum which has been closed for many years. I am currently not able to photograph the model, but either I or Mark Nankivil will post photos of it sometime soon.

It is not a perfect build as there are some wing alignment problems, but at a glance, it is a good match to the drawings.

 

[The Artist]

Here are three pictures of the model. Again. This was a scratchbuild commissioned from a local modeler for the Mascoutah Aerospace Museum and this model is now in the collection of the Greater St Louis Air & Space Museum. Thanks Mark for taking the pictures.

 

[hesham]

From L+K 20/1987.

 

[archipeppe]

Oddly, it looks like more a spaceplane than a stealth attack aircraft. WIth its dorsal air intakes (far from the re-entry heat flux) and the squared section fusalage, let alone the double delta wing, resembles more than a simple detail with the STS Orbiter.

 

[Dynoman]

The concept model reminds me of the CSIRS concept art, with vertical stablizers.

 

[RavenOne]

Oddly, it looks like more a spaceplane than a stealth attack aircraft. WIth its dorsal air intakes (far from the re-entry heat flux) and the squared section fusalage, let alone the double delta wing, resembles more than a simple detail with the STS Orbiter.

When the rumours appeared in press be it Aviation magazines or papers, at the time it was hinted that the F-19 or 117 would be along the lines of a mini space shuttle type aiframe.

cheers

 

[quellish]

Oddly, it looks like more a spaceplane than a stealth attack aircraft. WIth its dorsal air intakes (far from the re-entry heat flux) and the squared section fusalage, let alone the double delta wing, resembles more than a simple detail with the STS Orbiter.

When the rumours appeared in press be it Aviation magazines or papers, at the time it was hinted that the F-19 or 117 would be along the lines of a mini space shuttle type aiframe.

cheers

[QUOTE="RavenOne, post: 372895, member:

When the rumours appeared in press be it Aviation magazines or papers, at the time it was hinted that the F-19 or 117 would be along the lines of a mini space shuttle type aiframe.

cheers
[/QUOTE]

Which, as it turns out, is what some of the unrelated Harvey concepts looked like.

 

[Dynoman]

Interesting variation on the Testors F-19 model. The re-positioning of the canards and the rounding of the canards and vertical stabilizers would appear to reduce the designs RCS and interruption of flow into the engine inlets (found at http://www.inpayne.com/models/jets/f19testors.html).

 

[Graham1973]

Not a picture, but here's the initial description of the F-19A 'Ghostrider' from Tom Clancy's 1986 'Red Storm Rising'

She had no corners, no box shapes to allow radar signals to bounce cleanly off her. Her high-bypass turbofans were designed to emit a blurry infrared signature at most. From above, her wings appeared to mimic the shape of a cathedral bell. From in front, they curved oddly toward the ground, earning her the affectionate nickname of Frisbee.

 

[mr5oa]

Here we go...

Dick Nyland owned Westco Models. And I made the pattern for this model I still have the wood pattern as well, its a bit tore up how from pulling molds off it. I did this in 1982 way before the kits. As a matter of fact the CIA came by to talk to my boss about it because he was selling them at models shows. no one really knew about the Stealth at the time and where not ready for it to be known. My boss had a buddy that was the supervisor in the Northrop model shop and give him one. They ended up using it for disinformation in adds.

 

[mr5oa]

In 1983, Revell-Germany announced a 1/32 model of the "F-19" & it was supposedly based on the LORAL design. Rumor is the model was canceled at the request of the US Gov't.

So, I just came upon this thread and I thought I would give all of the contributors an interesting fact. There was a LORAL advertisement (see above) that featured the mythical F-19 if you all recall. Well, my friend, Al Parker, once of Marketing Aids fame, and then the Model Shop Manager at Hughes in Fullerton (a master model maker in his own right) made his interpretation of the "aircraft" in model form and sold it to his friends (me included) and then ultimately to Jan Halverson of Toys and Models (who had them made in the Philippines). You can tell Al's original version as it had the rounded canards and Jan's had the tapered canards like in the picture on the right. Al's was the foundation for all of the stories and conjectures that ran rampant for years. Also, Testors models copied Al's. Now on the "fun facts" side, Al was visited at his office at Hughes by the Men in Black (or was it Gray) who questioned him for many hours, looking for a security breach that may have occurred. Put the scare in him for quite a while............

Al Parker was my boss at Hughes GSG and he did not make the F19 pattern I did he just pulled molds off it! I still have the wood pattern!

 

[allysonca]

Dick Nyland owned Westco and he was the model shop manager at Pac Min when it was owned by Pennington/Coker. The model came from Al Parker.

 

[mr5oa]

Dick Nyland owned Westco and he was the model shop manager at Pac Min when it was owned by Pennington/Coker. The model came from Al Parker.

You are 100% correct. Dick Nyland. thanks. And I did a lot of aircraft for Jerry Pennington. My dad Lloyd Asbury owner of A/W Model Craft made the drawing from the Loral Attila Hejja ads with some input from Al Parker and his buddy at the Northrop model shop. I was in the Hughes model shop when the MIB met Al in the parking lot. My dad and Dick Nyland both retired in Mexico. Like I have said I still have the wood master pattern that I made of the F-19 that Al pulled molds from.

 

[fightingirish]

Not a picture, but here's the initial description of the F-19A 'Ghostrider' from Tom Clancy's 1986 'Red Storm Rising'

She had no corners, no box shapes to allow radar signals to bounce cleanly off her. Her high-bypass turbofans were designed to emit a blurry infrared signature at most. From above, her wings appeared to mimic the shape of a cathedral bell. From in front, they curved oddly toward the ground, earning her the affectionate nickname of Frisbee.

Here on YouTube an audio excerpt of the first part of Chapter 17 from the Tom Clancy's 1986 'Red Storm Rising' (audio-)book, featuring the Lockheed F-19A 'Ghostrider' or in that novel aka 'The Frisbees of Dreamland'.

 

[Dr.Snufflebug]

From; Warplanes of the 21st Century

This brings back memories. I had a Swedish aircraft identification guide in the 80's, I believe it was the Swedish armed forces' "Flygplankort", the 1987 issue, but I don't have an opportunity to verify it now.

At any rate, I recall a number of speculative things therein, including this "F-19 Aurora", with the exact same planform/siilhouette as in this picture (it was possibly the very same picture, albeit in b/w and fuzzier).

Skimming through this thread, I guess it all started with a commercial model kit by Testor, that itself was a (wildly inaccurate, it turns out) speculation about the visual characteriatics of the rumored "stealth fighter", ie what years later became known as the F-117.

Quite amusing that it ended up in a serious military publication in Sweden back then, and likewise amusing that the whole thing lives on in less than serious publications to this day, virtually unchanged since the 80's (though now featuring exotic propulsion systems and other sci-fi, of course).

 

[Antonio]

https://flic.kr/p/5gkpJ9

View: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8686041@N02/2798961456/in/photostream/

The link seems broken. Anyone?

 

[Have Blue]

I was told that at an IPMS Nationals (might have been Seattle) and before the F-117 was revealed, a model showed up on the display tables that had stealth design characteristics like aligned edges and other not commonly known details. Someone of consequence noticed it and it was soon surrounded by suits and removed, not to be seen again.

Anyone else heard about this?

That almost sounds like it could have been the Testors MiG-37B 'Ferret-E' kit, which was the first public release of a faceted stealth design and came out in 1987: https://hushkit.net/2018/05/28/mig-37b-assessment-the-stealthy-soviet-that-never-was/

r16 notes that the "Pentagon threw a fit" over the model, but I've not been able to find anything substantive: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/mig-37-ferret.6752/post-57270

 

[Richard N]

The guy who told me about it would have known if it was something other than scratch built. It was not a kit.

 

[Have Blue]

The guy who told me about it would have known if it was something other than scratch built. It was not a kit.

Fair enough, though now the various models (and fascinating modelmakers such as mr5oa in this thread) makes me wonder if your anecdote could be attributed to a modelmaker entering into an IPMS show something they had whipped up for the day job and didn't realize was actually classified? Admittedly, that scenario sounds preposterous, as I assume modelmakers and artists are 'read into' classified projects only as much as they need to be, and know full well that they are not to disclose anything to outside parties.

At any rate, the statement of the Testors MiG-37B model kit being the 'first public release of a faceted stealth design' is lifted from the Fall 1991 issue of Airpower Journal, which states: "Until the official unveiling of the F-117A in November 1988, no accurate rendering had ever been published, although some accounts had indicated that the aircraft was not a curved, blended design as most reports had made it out to be. The closest guess came from yet another Testors model kit, this time of a hypothetical Soviet stealth fighter, the MiG-37. The kit marked the first public release of a faceted stealth design." The article cites the 1989 Doug Richardson book 'Stealth' for this being 'the first public release', but I'm wondering what other public scuttlebutt existed in 1987 and prior regarding faceted designs.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

High res copy of the ATTILLA HEJJA artwork.

 

[quellish]

Skimming through this thread, I guess it all started with a commercial model kit by Testor, that itself was a (wildly inaccurate, it turns out) speculation about the visual characteriatics of the rumored "stealth fighter", ie what years later became known as the F-117.

30+ years later, it is now becoming clear how that happened. You may recall that in the 80s there were many press mentions of the "Stealth Fighter", many of them stating that it had a planform "similar to the space shuttle". As it turns out, the first "stealth fighter" leak came from "Project Harvey" - which was not classified and not related to the XST or SENIOR TREND. While even DARPA's history of the HAVE BLUE program mentions "Harvey", it was not related to HAVE BLUE. "Harvey" was the pet project of a Fighter Mafia member in DDRE. In 1975 there was a study contract issued (there may have been previous studies). Lockheed participated in that study independently of the XST work for DARPA. The Harvey study produced designs that were derived from D-21 experience and did have a planform somewhat similar to the space shuttle.

The congressional stealth fighter leaks hearings specifically called out this study and the fact that the Air Force gave copies to the press when requested (because they were not classified). In effect, "Harvey" both leaked the existence of a "stealth fighter" program (the wrong one) and served as cover for the real program.

Various imaginings of a stealth fighter including the Testers F-19 had a "space shuttle" planform.

 

[rooster]

Interesting design from cca 1990 that nearly matched it.

1990? It was revealed in 89

 

[rooster]

Skimming through this thread, I guess it all started with a commercial model kit by Testor, that itself was a (wildly inaccurate, it turns out) speculation about the visual characteriatics of the rumored "stealth fighter", ie what years later became known as the F-117.

30+ years later, it is now becoming clear how that happened. You may recall that in the 80s there were many press mentions of the "Stealth Fighter", many of them stating that it had a planform "similar to the space shuttle". As it turns out, the first "stealth fighter" leak came from "Project Harvey" - which was not classified and not related to the XST or SENIOR TREND. While even DARPA's history of the HAVE BLUE program mentions "Harvey", it was not related to HAVE BLUE. "Harvey" was the pet project of a Fighter Mafia member in DDRE. In 1975 there was a study contract issued (there may have been previous studies). Lockheed participated in that study independently of the XST work for DARPA. The Harvey study produced designs that were derived from D-21 experience and did have a planform somewhat similar to the space shuttle.

The congressional stealth fighter leaks hearings specifically called out this study and the fact that the Air Force gave copies to the press when requested (because they were not classified). In effect, "Harvey" both leaked the existence of a "stealth fighter" program (the wrong one) and served as cover for the real program.

Various imaginings of a stealth fighter including the Testers F-19 had a "space shuttle" planform.

When one of the test pilots saw a picture of what he was going to be flying, hev thought it was a reentry craft. The f117 is roughly the same platform but with twin tails

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

At any rate, the statement of the Testors MiG-37B model kit being the 'first public release of a faceted stealth design' is lifted from the Fall 1991 issue of Airpower Journal, which states: "Until the official unveiling of the F-117A in November 1988, no accurate rendering had ever been published, although some accounts had indicated that the aircraft was not a curved, blended design as most reports had made it out to be. The closest guess came from yet another Testors model kit, this time of a hypothetical Soviet stealth fighter, the MiG-37. The kit marked the first public release of a faceted stealth design." The article cites the 1989 Doug Richardson book 'Stealth' for this being 'the first public release', but I'm wondering what other public scuttlebutt existed in 1987 and prior regarding faceted designs.

Source:
AIAA-81-1506 Combat Survivability with Advanced Aircraft Propulsion Development
L.W. Throndson, Naval Weapons Center, China Lake, CA

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/faceting-for-stealth-shown-in-open-literature-before-f-117-unveiling.1040

 

[aliensporebomb]

The GI Joe stealth fighter isn't the only time they dabbled in putative classified birds as models for kids to play with - I recently saw one in a toy store I had to do a double take on - apparently their take on a Brilliant Buzzard type aircraft called a Cobra Night Raven which had a mothership and what looked like an F-19 style aircraft to be launched off the back of it. One wonders where they got the idea and who greenlit that.

I still think that Loral image is striking. Whether it would fly or not I don't know.

 

[antigravite]

Hi,

Not sure it's ever been posted here. Here's a brochure cover design from McDonnell Aircraft Co, featuring an F-19nish like aircraft design.
I have no idea of when this recruiting brochure was issued.

This item is available on the bay (currently listed as item #311996961087).

Description reads as follows:

Brochure - McDonnell Douglas - McDonnell Aircraft Company - Engineering Technology Division - Your Place In Technology - Fact Sheet / Division Profile to Promote Capabilities and Support Recruitment of New Talent - English language - Colour - 36 pages - approx. 11 x 8.5 inch sized pages - Code: None - estimate dates to approx. 1990 or shortly thereafter based on timeline in text - Light wear, very good condition.

Well illustrated with a wide array of small colour photos of employees, aircraft and design & development activities.

Includes pictures of employees, names, signatures with brief bio in the various Department's / Activities presented (names noted below)

A) High-level organizational chart / block diagram of the Division's activities.
B) 5 Keys to Self-Renewal (Len Impellizzeri)
C) Weights (Paul Kraus, Tony Boucher, Brian Kretchmer, Cliff Ross, Chuck Wilcox, Steve Zaidel, Art Repovich, Bob Martin
D) Strength (Tammie Buschling, Tony Dill, Roger Recker, Jeff Caracillo, Patty Feit, Richard Stover
E) Commitment to Excellence
F) Structural Dynamics & Loads (Charlie Sapp, Mike Fabrie, Mike Healey, Steve Caldwell, Gary Graber, Steve Stukel, Bob Jones, Chris Hammelman)
G) Structural Research (Steve Dodd, Philip Paul, Ray Skubic, Alan Walker, Scott Reeve, Linda Jost, Charley Saff, Herb Smith, Kurt Lynn, Amy Garrett)
H) A History of Customer Satisfaction
I) Guidance & Control (John Cushing, Patrick Magness, Kathy Landphair, Mark Pyclik, Dan Garrett, Rusty Thompson)
J) Aerodynamics (Scott Stevenson, Cyndi Meier, Dave Haft, Check Louie, Mike Roesch)
K) Commitment to People
L) Propulsion & Thermodynamics (Terri Wells, Kevin Landmann, John Housley, David Zilz, Don Tuegel, Pat Vogel, Dr. Ray Cosner)
M) Operations Analysis (Jim Chalk, Steve Yager, Howard McClellan, Steve Chan, Barbara Vogel, Stephanie Goodrow, Hal Stewart, Mark Williams, Charlie Thornton, Bruce Dike)
N) Commitment to the Future

Hope this helps and since I had no idea where it could fit, this thread seemed to tick the most adequare box.
@Admin: Feel free to move it anywhere else f required.

A

 

[KHambsch]

The Loral (Northrop) F-19 (...) did exist as a real concept and very likely it did fly and perhaps one is still out there.

I am convinced that there WAS an F-19 aircraft that had nothing to do with the F-117, and this for several reasons:
[list type=decimal]
[*]The skipping of "F-19" makes no sense. The stealth program was not that much of a secret until the late 1970s. Work on Have Blue was hinted at as early as 1973 or 1974. The "F-19" slot corresponds to that period when stealth was in development but not yet top secret. It is likely that whatever the "F-19" was, the designation was made secret as an afterthought.

[*]The F-117 never was a fighter but an attack aircraft and therefore belonged in the A- class. It could NOT have been the "F-19".

[*]In the early days of the internet, I saved a whole page of very detailed specs for the F-19 fighter from the website of a perfectly serious and genuine aircraft supplier that allegedly provided parts for the type and had no reason to make up the whole thing.

[*]If stealth attack and the bomber demonstrators were created, it makes little sense that stealth would not have been tested on a fighter design.
[/list]Besides, several aerospace companies such as Loral or Hughes featured designs of unknown combat planes in the midst of other well identified types on posters and ads showing the programs they were involved in.I have doubt however that the Northrop/Loral design (which was shown in the Loral ads and also became the Testors model) is the real one. Looks too sci-fi to me, and besides there is no reason why Northrop and Loral would have disclosed the real design in their ads at a time when stealth had become highly secret. The real item must have been a lot less impressive...

Could/would you disclose the "whole page of very detailed specs" that you mention above?...Think it would be cool to see what comes to my mind, given a specific description....am good at sketching. Thnx. Kevin

 

[KHambsch]

I'm curious, with as much attention that the Testor F-19 model received during its heyday, if there was ever any engineering or popular article written on it from an engineering perspective? I can see a variety of issues (e.g. canard and spoiler control effectiveness, wing loading, obstructed inlet, stealth effectiveness, etc.) that may have already been addressed in a peer reviewed article.

This article explains how Anderson came up with the design:

Tempest in a Toy Box : The Stealth Fighter Is So Secret the Pentagon Won't Admit It Exists. John Andrews Shocked Everyone by Building a Model of It. To Tell the Truth, He Says, It Wasn't All That Much Trouble.

Last spring, the Testor model kit company of Rockford, Ill., introduced its model of the super-secret F-19 stealth fighter and immediately created an international sensation.

articles.latimes.com

The initial inspiration for the design came from an electronic company's (Loral's?) stealth aircraft advertisement.

Yikes, don't want to buy a subscription just to read the article....can you post it? Break any rules? Not sure. Thanks. Kevin

 

[Dynoman]

KHambsch, there's no subscription required, you'll just have to scroll past the advertisements.

 

[Dynoman]

The folks at VSKYLABS have been working on an X-plane F-19 for sometime and are in the process of refining their visual and flight model. Their philosophy in their expansion of the Testor's cockpit design and planned performance of their simulation is described in their posts on their website and will be available in a booklet that will come with its purchase. The overarching idea is that the design would use significant amounts of Commercial Off the Shelf parts and components, barrowing from the Northrop F/A-18 its landing gear, F404-GE-100s, and cockpit displays. Here are some pictures from their site.

 

[Dynoman]

Interesting ideas on the Testor F-19 model from Hushkit and a video from VSKYLABS:

The F-19 stealth fighter: Would it have worked in the real world?

“Several different F-19 kits are available, I am going to comment on the Testors one, as I believe it was the first, and most successful. However, the one from Monogram, shown below, re…

hushkit.net

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7e_NTgpgIE

 

[KHambsch]

KHambsch, there's no subscription required, you'll just have to scroll past the advertisements.

Great! learn something new every day! Thank you for that info. K

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1986

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1987.