Eviation Alice (Electric Regional Airliner)

I guess we'll soon know soon whether the aircraft has undergone major design changes like the Flight Global article hinted at. Fun fact, Eviation and the engine maker they plan on using, Magnix, have the same owner.
 
According to a recent article in Aviation Week, the company has updated the specifications surrounding the aircraft. It will now have pressurization, a 220 kt cruise speed, 32,000 ceiling and a 440 nm range with a 45 minute reserve. It's original range was supposed to 740 nm. It's takeoff gross weight has increased to 14,700 lb up from 14,000 lb, and the wingspan has increased from 53ft all the way up to 59 ft. But the battery weight remains the same at a whopping 8,200 lb with 820 kWh of energy capacity, using lithium nickel cobalt oxide cells. The factory will be located in Washington, close to the headquarters of MagniX, the engine maker they will be using.

They also claim the aircraft is still projected to enter service by 2024, but I just don't see that happening. The Tecnam P2012 was a simple all metal airframe with proven engines and avionics, fixed landing gear as well as no pressurization and it took an experienced company like Tecnam almost 4 years to gain certification.

I understand these start up companies are under pressure to present investors with rosy projections regarding the timetables of their projects, but there is a fine line between being optimistic and flat out lying. I have seen too many start up companies with very ambitious projects present timetables that are frankly preposterous.
 
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I'm still shocked that the initial concept they unveiled was so utterly impractical. When this aircraft was in the early design stage did nobody point out all the issues that the unconventional layout they chose created ? Did they not understand it would be a nightmare trying to get that design certified ? If this company had chosen a more practical traditional layout back in 2014 when this project was launched they could have been well on their way to certification by now. The only thing that appears to be reused from the original design is the forward fuselage, everything else seems to have been completely discarded. What a colossal waste of time and resources. I hope at least this version has a conventional tricycle landing gear. The good news is that there appears to be 2 prototypes under construction, that will at least speed up the test program.
 
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I agree, having just seen these guys bonfire off a big percentage of the money invested to date, why is anyone giving them the time of day? How can anyone trust their technical judgment?

We’re living in very odd times.

Even the new configurations range and performance figures still look fantasy for today’s battery technology. I suspect they’re banking on a very high degrees of laminar flow to jack up the L/D. Delivering a commercial service, that is selling pax destinations which requires the maintenance of a high degree of laminar flow throughout the flight, wow that’ll stretch the certification thinking. I’ve watched clean, highly laminar wings, with how very high LD decline in real time as they pick up bugs, and the rate varies considerably from flight to flight. By way of example, all clean at start of flight the electrikcy witchcraft was telling me I was at 42:1 and 2-3 hours later it was 34:1.

Also look at the volume coefficients used on the tail plane (how small/little area). They’re really pushing the boundaries and imply a reliance on artificial stability and never having to shut down a single engine. It’s one thing saying “well our electric motors are so reliable we don’t need to consider a failure” but what happens when a tire fails and the debris knocks off a propeller blade?
 
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The problem with impractical designs espoused by startups is that you need to be better by leaps and bounds than the competition to find investors. So you must find (or convince yourself you've found) some first order breakthrough that often involves unusual configurations. But typically there's a reason those configurations are not mainstream...notice that a lot of what is being proposed (like laminar flow) has been known for a long time but not taken advantage of for very practical reasons.
Regarding investors, and the above technical considerations aside, you actually HAVE TO look different to be 'exciting'.
At least that's how i rationalize what i see coming out of these companies.
 
electrek.co

Eviation's 'Tesla of aircraft' production version unveiled with over 400 miles of range

Eviation, which has been described as the “Tesla of aircraft” for working on the first compelling long-range electric aircraft, has...
electrek.co electrek.co

Based on the video it seems that there is only one prototype so far, I mistakenly thought there were two not realizing it was the same aircraft in two separate pieces before being assembled. :oops:

I also wonder if the battery packs can be swapped out for a new one if in 10 years better tech becomes available to improve range. Making this aircraft future-proof in terms of accommodating new batteries could be what makes it a success.

Below are the confirmed specs:

 
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Took the liberty to add the picture:

Eviation-alice-electric-aircraf-spec-sheet.jpg
 
Don't forget that the fuselage is mostly an empty shell. There are no fuel lines, no hydraulycs and it has the benefits of being a modern design with a composite structure.
Of concerns also is the very small tailplane (see the front fuselage large surface ahead of the CG) and the claimed 32000ft ceiling... Is this thing really pressurized?
 
If they are planning a full-authority EM fly-by-wire actuation system for a manned, passenger carrying aircraft, this will be quite an FAA certification process. I do not know of any other manned aircraft with a full EM flight control actuation suite. The B787 uses EM actuators, but only for ground spoilers. Have to think of full TED/TEU failure modes (takeoff/approach/landing) including rapid response and surface trimming for such failures, this includes redundancy as well.
 
Agreed, the systems I’m aware of are more electrically powered, self contained mini hydraulic systems. Pure electro mechanical has some challenging failure modes as they’re far more susceptible to jam solid….. which if not disconnected, will jam the surface…. Disconnection systems have their terrifying failures namely operating when not intended.
 
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Most aircraft (non-fighter-type) flight surfaces stay around the trailed, null region with very little surface activity, the same goes for UAVs except for general maneuvers during flight. It would be interesting to know how many incidents have occurred related to UAV platforms which have had a jammed flight surface EMA event during any portion of a flight/mission. If the gear train or ballscrew has jammed the only way to recover is to have rapid FCS response and ample trim authority. Also, FCAS EM actuators have evolved in reliability, the military would or could accept some risk but commercial aviation (and the FAA/EAA) wourld required pretty exhausting simulation, analysis and lab testing, iron bird labs would get serious workouts.
 
The company has released a more detailed image of what the final version will look like.

Edit: We also get a good look at the charger port in this second pic:
 

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www.cnbc.com

DHL Express buys electric cargo planes for U.S. package delivery from start-up Eviation

The Eviation planes can carry up to 2,500 pounds at a top speed of 250 mph and can go 500 miles on a single charge.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

Wow. I did not see this coming. I don't know just how useful an electric freighter is, but I hope it succeeds. If this aircraft is quiet enough to be allowed into noise restricted airports past curfew time, that could give it a competitive advantage.
 

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I suspect this is just a PR move by DHL to show they're being environmentally responsible. Same thing with United 'pre-ordering' (whatever that means) 200 aircraft from Beta (or was it Archer?). This way they can put some sort of statement in their quarterly reports and never have to do anything about it because they don't actually have firm commitments and 90% of the time these projects fail before they get anywhere close to production anyway.
Sorry, that's just my 2 cents on BS announcements that have little to do with engineering or reality.
Renderings are cheap. If they show me a CAD model used in a FEM to size a big-A$$ door on the side that would actually be used to make the vehicle even remotely useful for loading-unloading packages, then i may believe it. Or a mockup; anything that you would actually need to do if you were actually serious about it.
 
AeroFranz said:
GTX said:
Or it could be the market investing where they see a future...
Click to expand...
Could be. I admit to being biased to poo-poo everything a startup's marketing departments does. :p
Click to expand...

Well... aviation has pretty bad odds - even for established companies - What percentage of conceptual projects end up being serious design studies? What percentage of those end up as hardware? What percentage of those end up seeing serial production? What percentage of those end up seeing significant production?

So I don't find fault with your scepticism. I suspect that parcel/freight aviation is one area where we'll see higher efficiencies and novel designs eventually though - the amount of casualties from a crash is smaller (especially if unmanned) allowing lower liability for design risk, and airspeed isn't quite as important as reducing overall operating costs... there is quite a margin for improvement. Someone will succeed in doing it eventually.
 
Avimimus said:
AeroFranz said:
GTX said:
Or it could be the market investing where they see a future...
Click to expand...
Could be. I admit to being biased to poo-poo everything a startup's marketing departments does. :p
Click to expand...

Well... aviation has pretty bad odds - even for established companies - What percentage of conceptual projects end up being serious design studies? What percentage of those end up as hardware? What percentage of those end up seeing serial production? What percentage of those end up seeing significant production?

So I don't find fault with your scepticism. I suspect that parcel/freight aviation is one area where we'll see higher efficiencies and novel designs eventually though - the amount of casualties from a crash is smaller (especially if unmanned) allowing lower liability for design risk, and airspeed isn't quite as important as reducing overall operating costs... there is quite a margin for improvement. Someone will succeed in doing it eventually.
Click to expand...
And i think you actually touched on something that I think will have a bigger impact for cargo operations than electrification, and that is removing the pilot from the cockpit. I have no illusion that it comes with all sorts of technical and even more so regulatory challenges, but it's pretty much established that un-manning or optionally-piloting is going to happen. Cargo aircraft being a prime candidate for early adoption.
[edited one word]
 
There's an article in this week's issue of Aviation Week that profiles the Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800, which is similar in size and layout to the Eviation Alice. The company is claiming that they can achieve an almost 30 db noise reduction over a similarly sized turboprop. If Eviation can achieve similar noise reductions, which would allow DHL to operate into noise restricted airfields that other cargo planes can't operate from, then they can carve out a profitable niche for themselves. But they really do need to develop a proper cargo door similar to what the PC-12 has. Heck, even for regular passenger operations I feel like a larger baggage door is required. Look at the massive door the Tecnam 2012 has for stowing cargo. ( shown below)

When I look at the Eviation project, it seems like they are building an aircraft more suited for the corporate market than for commuter flying. Think about it, do you really need expensive luxuries like pressurization or fly by wire controls on a 9 seat aircraft with such a short range? Can anyone really see a small cash strapped commuter airline going for this aircraft ?

I personally want these new designs to succeed, but when I think about their business plans and projected market, there are many doubts that begin to creep into my head.
 

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AeroFranz said:
And i think you actually touched on something that I think will have a bigger impact for cargo operations than electrification, and that is removing the pilot from the cockpit. I have no illusion that it comes with all sorts of technical and even more so regulatory challenges, but it's pretty much established that un-manning or optionally-piloting is going to happen. Cargo aircraft being a prime candidate for early adoption.
[edited one word]
Click to expand...
I would agree and welcome it. Cargo aircraft are an especially smart area to start
 

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Avimimus said:
I suspect that parcel/freight aviation is one area where we'll see higher efficiencies and novel designs eventually though - the amount of casualties from a crash is smaller (especially if unmanned) allowing lower liability for design risk, and airspeed isn't quite as important as reducing overall operating costs... there is quite a margin for improvement. Someone will succeed in doing it eventually
Click to expand...

Still begs the question of why anyone would invest marginal $$ on electric aircraft that have such a negligeable impact on CO2 emissions, aside from PR and greenwashing because it's "sexy".

There's already plenty of simple, proven things that these corporations could be investing in today, such as electrifying their vehicle fleets on the ground, buying clean energy from their utility suppliers, revamping their facilities & warehouses to be more energy efficient etc...
 
The next reach for aviation is in commuting ppl over short distance with an increased nbr of rotation. This would be catastrophic if not done through clean energy.
The priority given to E.V is hence well suited. But you are right that this must come as a system of systems.
 
TomcatViP said:
The next reach for aviation is in commuting ppl over short distance with an increased nbr of rotation. This would be catastrophic if not done through clean energy.
Click to expand...
I would argue that self-driving cars will make commutes much more pleasurable (and productive) and decrease the importance of getting to your destination quickly. (Plus probably reducing accidents and improving rush hour traffic)

A bit like how lie-flat seats, laptop computers, and onboard wifi have made supersonic business travel less important...
 
H_K said:

Still begs the question of why anyone would invest marginal $$ on electric aircraft that have such a negligeable impact on CO2 emissions, aside from PR and greenwashing because it's "sexy".
Click to expand...
Aviation is seen as a major area needing work on the solution side.

Global-CO2-emissions-from-aviation.png
 

Eviation On Track For All-Electric Alice Completion | Aviation Week Network

Despite pandemic-related supply chain disruption, the redesigned Eviation Alice is in final assembly ahead of first flight by year-end.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com

Looks like this project is still on track to have it's first flight by year end. A few details:

Three test aircraft are planned

Twin Magni650 power units under test

The flight-test and certification program will entail up to 2,000 flight hours

The cargo bay for the DHL freighter version will have 450 ft.3 of capacity

It is designed to be flown by a single pilot and require no more than 30 min. to charge

They admit that they discarded the original radical design in favor of something more traditional after realizing that it would be extremely difficult to get regulators and potential customers to accept it. Kind of makes you wonder how no one in the company mentioned this before time and valuable resources were wasted on building that prototype.
 
alberchico said:
They admit that they discarded the original radical design in favor of something more traditional after realizing that it would be extremely difficult to get regulators and potential customers to accept it. Kind of makes you wonder how no one in the company mentioned this before time and valuable resources were wasted on building that prototype.
Click to expand...

Its pretty fundamental to a business plan that you don’t kill your customers, as the original “radical” scheme would, so it makes you wonder what the working life is like in these start ups. I suspect others have similarly challenging founders who have obtained funding by deception as opposed to a sound engineering basis.
 
Hopefully we'll see the first flight soon. I just realized that if this becomes the first clean sheet electric airliner to enter service, this prototype will probably end up in a place of honor at the Smithsonian Air and Space museum.

Does anyone feel the aircraft's unusually long wingspan might present a headache for small operators like Cape Air ? Take a look at this image of a typical hanger setup that they have. This aircraft will also require more ramp space.
 

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Wingspan is not really a problem for GA since you can stack up most airplane thanks to their raised elevator. On the contrary, with elongated fuselages, there isn't much that you can do.
 
alberchico said:
Does anyone feel the aircraft's unusually long wingspan might present a headache for small operators like Cape Air ?
Click to expand...

It’s a glider/sailplane wing, very high LD but only if it’s kept very clean (no dead bug/ice/ scratches/etc). What’ll be a real problem for the operators is successfully arriving at the destination or even the alternative, will depend on how clean they can keep the wing.

A normal wing doesn’t degrade much performance if dirty, maybe 2-3% whereas this one could see -20-30% which is a big impact on range.
 
Zoo Tycoon said:
alberchico said:
Does anyone feel the aircraft's unusually long wingspan might present a headache for small operators like Cape Air ?
Click to expand...

It’s a glider/sailplane wing, very high LD but only if it’s kept very clean (no dead bug/ice/ scratches/etc). What’ll be a real problem for the operators is successfully arriving at the destination or even the alternative, will depend on how clean they can keep the wing.

A normal wing doesn’t degrade much performance if dirty, maybe 2-3% whereas this one could see -20-30% which is a big impact on range.
Click to expand...

You bring up a good point. Right now there is a composite prototype aircraft flying ( powered by a diesel engine) that also uses a unusual aerodynamic design to achieve as much laminar flow as possible with very low drag. The Celera 500L, if it makes it into production, could be a potential competitor to the Eviation Alice. However it remains to be seen whether they can achieve the performance goals they claim.

www.flyingmag.com

The Design of the Celera 500L

www.flyingmag.com www.flyingmag.com

I also wonder how much range the Eviation aircraft will lose once it gets retrofitted with a proper anti-icing system, which is required for the harsh Northeast winter weather that Cape Air often flies in. And if this aircraft comes equipped with a cabin heating system that would reduce the range even further.
 
electrek.co

Eviation unveils versatile interior of its electric plane with 440 miles of range

Eviation, the company behind one of the most advanced projects to deliver an all-electric aircraft for commercial services, has unveiled...
electrek.co electrek.co

Eviation has released new images of the interior configurations. I still think this aircraft might have better success if it was used for corporate flying rather than as a feederliner.
 
It would be refreshing to see something really flying in the skies of the Aerospace Startups world, as it would be hard to cheat anything with an airplane architecture.
I expect a lot of capital movement as many would have to realign with the reality catching-up.

Might 2022 be the year after the Deluge (of mediocrity).
 

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