Eurofighter Typhoon

[Deltafan]

90 new enhanced EF for the replacement of the german Tornado ?

http://www.janes.com/article/79567/ila-2018-eurofighter-touts-typhoon-as-pathway-to-fcas-future-combat-aircraft

enhancements earmarked include upgrades to the E-Scan radar now being developed; long-range and standoff weapons; enhanced defensive aids; improvements to the efficiency and power output of the EJ200 engines (he cited a 15% increase in power); as well as enhancements related to the suppression of enemy air defences (SEAD)

 

[TsrJoe]

Just musing, were any trials carried out with the Typhoon for possible carriage of the B.61? (as per German Tornado)

Image ; Sandia B.61 nuclear store training shape being fitted to a Panavia Tornado of JaboG.33 at Buchel

 

[Hood]

Given the rumours that the RAF might cut its F-35 order in favour of cheaper Typhoons it might be possible that the RAF will order more to a similar standard.

 

[TomcatViP]

Cheaper?

 

[Grey Havoc]

Given current events, I wonder if this is back on the table? Though with Brussels' attempting to reprise Carthago delenda est with regards as to the British, Eurofighter and NETMA may understandably be otherwise distracted...

(h/t sferrin)

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/eurofighter-typhoon-to-bid-to-replace-canadian-cf-18-455004/

 

[Grey Havoc]

Germany crash: Two Eurofighter jets in fatal collision

The two pilots managed to eject but only one of them is thought to have survived.

www.bbc.com

 

[TomcatViP]

Sad news.. RiP to the pilot.

 

[Flyaway]

The past 12 months have seen a momentous shift in the UK’s combat aircraft balance, with Royal Air Force (RAF) Eurofighter Typhoon FGR4s having received new ground-attack weapons, its last Panavia Tornado GR4s retiring and the type’s successor – the Lockheed Martin F-35B – conducting its first operational missions in the Middle East.

RIAT: How Typhoon updates put Centurion on guard for UK

The past 12 months have seen a momentous shift in the UK's combat aircraft balance, with Royal Air Force Eurofighter Typhoon FGR4s having received new ground-attack weapons, its last Panavia Tornado GR4s retiring and the type's successor - the Lockheed Martin F-35B - conducting its first...

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Hood]

The RAF are soon to receive their final Typhoon as the production line now switches to the export orders from Kuwait and Oman.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/bae-nears-final-typhoon-delivery-for-uk-460177/

 

[SteveO]

Electronic attack Typhoon with 1000 litre tanks on the inboard wing pylons! Is that something that has been tested yet?

Berlin targets Eurofighter AESA deal and top-up buy

Germany appears poised to advance a joint programme with Spain to equip the nations' later-model Eurofighters with active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars, as Berlin also nears granting approval to acquire 38 new aircraft to replace its Tranche 1-standard interceptors.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[VTOLicious]

Electronic attack Typhoon with 1000 litre tanks on the inboard wing pylons! Is that something that has been tested yet?

Berlin targets Eurofighter AESA deal and top-up buy

Germany appears poised to advance a joint programme with Spain to equip the nations' later-model Eurofighters with active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars, as Berlin also nears granting approval to acquire 38 new aircraft to replace its Tranche 1-standard interceptors.

www.flightglobal.com

The corresponding Airbus trade media briefing attached

 

[fightingirish]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1194289565349142533

 

[VTOLicious]

...

 

[SteveO]

That model appears to have the aerodynamic modification kit (AMK) shaped fuselage strakes and the trailing edge flaps look extended (kitbashed?). I wonder if it's needed to carry fuel tanks on the inboard pylons or can a standard Typhoon do it too?

The AMK also pops up in this video (0:55).

 

[fightingirish]

Those strakes as part of the aerodynamic modification kit (AMK) were tested on the German prototype IPA7 to show an improvement of the Typhoon's maneuverability in 2015.
IMHO until I see, that the AMK will be included and funded in an upcoming upgrade, I wouldn't assume anything.
Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/airbus-dands-completes-typhoon-aerodynamic-testing/117638.article

 

[SteveO]

I wonder how much of a kit it really is? I'd like to think it's just a matter of replacing the existing strakes, leading edge, flaps and a software update but that's probably too much to hope for

 

[SteveO]

New Eurofighter electronic combat role (ECR) concept presented at the IFC | Eurofighter Typhoon

www.eurofighter.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

Union warns Germany against Super Hornet selection

One of Germany's biggest aerospace employee unions has warned the country's government that it risks jeopardising the entire European defence industry if it selects a US-built fighter to replace the Luftwaffe's Panavia Tornado fleet.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[fightingirish]

Here some more pictures and information about the Aerodynamic Modification Kit (AMK) for the Eurofighter Typhoon, featured in an interview with Raffael ‘Klax’ Klaschka – former German Air Force F-4F Phantom, EF-18 (exchange pilot with the Spanish 'Ejército del Aire') and Typhoon pilot and now Marketing Lead at Eurofighter GmbH.
Link: https://hushkit.net/2020/04/09/flyi...typhoon-interview-with-raffael-klax-klaschka/

 

[Grey Havoc]

Tim Robinson from the Royal Aeronautical Society magazine was the source for the Meteor as SEAD missile, apparently it was mentioned in briefings by the RAF with MBDA present. It does tend to go with the whole Complex Weapons programme ethos.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1171699243054239745

 

[VTOLicious]

 

[fightingirish]

An interesting PDF in the German language about the Eurofighter Electronic Combat Role (ECR) concept.
Source/Link: https://www.bdli.de/publikationen/der-eurofighter-als-escort-jammer
The PDF is too large to upload as an attachment to this post.

 

[helmutkohl]

Navi e caccia all’Egitto di Al Sisi. Governo diviso sulla maxi commessa

Già pronte due fregate da 1,2 miliardi, poi altri mezzi e 48 aerei. Ma pesa il caso Regeni

rep.repubblica.it

translation,
Egypt to buy 24 Typhoons, several M-346 and FREMM Frigates from Italia

cool, so now they have F-16s, Mirage 2000s, Typhoons, Rafales, MiG-35s, supposedly Su-35s on order
they just need to buy some Gripens to complete their collection



I can understand buying two models of aircraft from different countries due to concerns over geopolitics, but half a dozen different types...

 

[Grey Havoc]

Ah, politics, so often the bane of sane procurement.

 

[SteveO]

Good flypasts and airshows though

 

[galgot]

So Italy , who is supporting the internationally recognized Gov (GNA) in Lybia , managed to sell 24 Typhoon (among other things) to Egypt supporting (with arms and personnels) General Haftar's LNA fighting the GNA... That is interesting indeed.

 

[Deino]

So Italy , who is supporting the internationally recognized Gov (GNA) in Lybia , managed to sell 24 Typhoon (among other things) to Egypt supporting (with arms and personnels) General Haftar's LNA fighting the GNA... That is interesting indeed.

And how reliable is this given source for this IMO most unlikely sale?

 

[galgot]

So Italy , who is supporting the internationally recognized Gov (GNA) in Lybia , managed to sell 24 Typhoon (among other things) to Egypt supporting (with arms and personnels) General Haftar's LNA fighting the GNA... That is interesting indeed.

And how reliable is this given source for this IMO most unlikely sale?

No idea... Maybe we'll see Egyptian AF, Italian sold Typhoon bombing Italian supported GNA .
Or maybe see how Italy policy toward GNA evolves in the coming month... 24 Typhoons, several M-346 and FREMM Frigates is maybe worth giving up help to GNA... ?

 

[VTOLicious]

So Italy , who is supporting the internationally recognized Gov (GNA) in Lybia , managed to sell 24 Typhoon (among other things) to Egypt supporting (with arms and personnels) General Haftar's LNA fighting the GNA... That is interesting indeed.

...That Egypt is shopping with US funding makes it even more interesting

 

[Grey Havoc]

Eurofighter's New Radar Is Nearly Ready But Royal Air Force Wants An Even Better One

The Eurofighter is finally getting its long-awaited Captor-E AESA radar, but the RAF is going to wait for an enhanced version with special abilities.

www.thedrive.com

 

[helmutkohl]

Indonesia wants to buy Austria's Eurofighters

not too long ago I joked around about Indonesia wanting to buy Eurofighters, Rafales, Hornets, etc to complete their collection of 4th gen fighters..
but I guess it might come true lol

Indonesia is said to be interested in Austrian Eurofighters - NewsABC.net

Indonesia wants to buy the Austrian Eurofighter. Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto offers his counterpart Klaudia Tanner (ÖVP) in a letter to buy all 15 interceptors, reports The press in their Sunday edition. The defense department confirmed receipt of the letter but did not want to comment...

newsabc.net

my question is
1. what will Austria replace their Typhoons with?
2. will Indonesia replace any aircraft in return? Austrian Typhoons are quite limited IRC

 

[Archibald]

These Typhoons will have one hell of thermal shock, going from Austrian winter to Indonesia tropics...

 

[Archibald]

More seriously, even without ground attack capability, and maybe not upgraded since Batch 1 - Indonesia doesn't care.

The lure of buying Typhoons at bargain price, because "off the shelf" [third hand (!) would be more appropriate] is very strong.

Nowadays, having powerful, modern combat aircraft (even in small numbers and a bit outdated standard) is very important for many countries.
Particularly in Asia.
Why ?
Because of China growing threat on the region... the unfortunate neighbourghs have to "flex their muscles" and (dare I say) tell China "mine is bigger, I have no fear of you".

Basically a giant d**k showing contest...

Thailand aircraft carrier is one startling example of that trend. We all know how underused this one is - her majesty super yacht.

A lot of Asian contries that once assumed air defense duties "on the cheap" with F-5 Tigers, found they can't do this anymore, not gainst the Chinese angry bear... when Chinese H6K come violating your airspace, you'd better have modern fighters to intercept them. Even more when J-20s will replace them.
Not because the Chinese are there on a war mission - more subtle, it is a matter of intimidation.
Basically, if the H6K intruder is intercepted by F-5E, the chinese goes LMAO and are encouraged to continue over and over.
Now if the same H6K intruder is welcomed by AMRAAM armed Typhoons, things might be different.

Don't forget, back in '78 the Shah of Iran send a powerful message to USSR leadership when its Tomcats illuminated one of these pesky MiG-25R an entire minute with their AWG-9s.
Boom, Soviet overflights ceased from this moment. No need to waste an expensive AIM-54 shooting the intruder - just scare the heck out of him.

 

[helmutkohl]

^ I agree, China is a serious threat, especially after some recent issues over disputed territory between the two.. Indonesia has became more aggressive in defending its territory

but I'm still having a hard time understanding their purchasing logic.
For example, they're struggling to finance the KFX which is due to fly in a few months
why not, instead of buying Typhoons, use that money into the KFX which is probably half a generation ahead?

or buy more of their existing types. like the Su-30s which definitely have the range to cover maritime territory
or upgrade their F-16s?

 

[Archibald]

This is the tragic, classic story of "national pride, indigenous fighter" versus "expensive, difficult, time consuming, obsolete type"
It happened to Canada - wanted the Arrow, got F-101B
It happened to switzerland - wanted FFA P.16, got Hawker Hunters
It happened to Israel - wanted Lavis, got F-16s
Also consider
India and Tejas
Japan's F-2.
Not a bad aircraft per se, but essentially an insanely expensive F-16 clone (note: not my opinion, but Teal Group Richard Aboulafia)
and Tejas... oh well. While the F-2 is an honest-to-God (but very expensive) F-16 re-invention, Tejas is 2/3rd of a Mirage 2000... 30 years late.

The real risk for Indonesia is to get either a Tejas or a F-2. They can't bet everything on this one. As for foreign aircraft like Su-30 - they are expensive.

It is a catch-22...

"indigenous fighter = high tech jobs and keeping hard currencies inside the country"
Yeah, but alas
"indigenous fighter also mean Tejas - 30 years in development, for what ?"

So far the one and only that seemed to get the best of both worlds (instead of the worse) seems to be South Korea.
- Licence-build F-16s
- A/T-50 to learn modestly (and a nice result so far)
- KFX - the big leap into the unknown... (I kind of like the design so far - look ma, a F-35 with Superbug engines !)

Japan keeps trying.

Israel has given up.

 

[stealthflanker]

but I'm still having a hard time understanding their purchasing logic.

You don't as arms procurement here is intriguing. Mostly ran through group in power. It also not went through a proper Technical analysis to say the least.

For example, they're struggling to finance the KFX which is due to fly in a few months

If you read indonesian i can show you a thesis topic about that back in 2015.

Basically it is a difference in perspective. Our perspective on KFX was that it is a "do or die" strategic plan which should not be affected by anything like Elections or global economy etc. But things happen and there was a delay on KFX back in 2013... This caused the alotted budget to not get absorbed properly. Like we alotted 1B but only 300M got used. This, in our budgetary scheme are a waste, as a result our ministry of treasury simply consider that the project is "messy" and decided not to allocate more funds to it. Resulting in a shock during 2018 where our MOD back then (RYamrizad Ryacudu) surprised the Ministry of treasury by requesting additional funds for KFX

or buy more of their existing types. like the Su-30s which definitely have the range to cover maritime territory
or upgrade their F-16s?

Sukhoi would be difficult due to CAATSA and to some extent even with counter trade agreement there is problem that there are no allocation of funds in the budget+ external factors. Russians asked for Rubbers. However should we purchase a large amount of it... we would get into trouble with Malaysia where we have a treaty of "rubber quota". Purchase of rubbers in the amount that required for the Flanker deal can be considered breach and "over production". Thus why suddenly our govt trying to offer other comodities which Russians will of course not accept as they dont really need them.

. Scheme is keep being worked on especially on the Su-35. but things gonna remain slow.

F-16's ? Well these Typhoons would be allocated for our Air Defense Force (Kohanudnas - Komando Pertahanan Udara Nasional) They have been "dreaming" about having a real interceptor that can actually have the climb performance (T/W = 1 or more) and acceleration to caught with air trespasser, our air defense command have problem with Jets like Gulfstream and sometime even the Falcon just dont have enough juice to sprint, thus why we ended up using Flankers which some considered a waste as it's a big two engined design, but It does have the power to sprint.

 

[helmutkohl]

thanks stealthy

in your honest opinion
how do you think the Indonesian air force should modernize their Air Force in the next 15 years?

 

[stealthflanker]

thanks stealthy

in your honest opinion
how do you think the Indonesian air force should modernize their Air Force in the next 15 years?

Two major gaps that must be addressed.

1.Capability to operate-maintain and especially counter Low observable target.
2.Capability to perform NCW and Counter NCW.


Those two are the most critical considering that there are potential threats like China, India, Australia and Singapore. All of which have such capability, operational or planned. Even when we actually choose to ally with any of them without addressing the two major gaps ourselves we would turn into a massive liability. China or US Alliance would ended up spending Billions in aid trying to provide any defense support.

Unfortunately however the "higher ups" there still have not realized it. Sure, trying to buy Rafale, typhoon or other planes would stir news but not much can be done if they can't really contribute to deter foreign power having cruise missile or low observable asset.

In terms of procurement tho i would love to see KFX went through as it's not only gave us "know how" on actually develop fighters but also it introduces us to Low observable target. The lowest target we had for real air combat maneuvering was Korean T-50 and Hawk. These are conventional planes, small and having RCS of about 1 sqm. But this is 2020 and we won't be facing 1 sqm but something at least 0.3 sqm CJ-10 missile or 0.001 sqm JSF or J-20's. There is apparent relationship between target RCS and the required number of defending fighters.

Below is a part of a some presentation I did about that. Relating target RCS (Cruise missile) Vs the amount of required fighter to defend against it.



The assumption is 216 cruise missile salvo from assumed H6K regiment. They would be firing CJ-10 or other types. Although the RCS is unknown i made several assumptions namely 1 sqm, 0.3 sqm, 0.01, 0.001 and 0.0001 sqm. The number of fighters required to defend against them is a function of the fighter's Radar range. Better radar = better fighter = Less amount of them required to defend against any given salvo.

So to defend against a salvo of 216, 1 Sqm RCS cruise missile we only need about 22 Su-35 vs over 181 of older F/16A-B using APG-66. Still however the lower the Cruise missile's RCS. The more fighters required down to perhaps impractical number of over 2160 F-16A/B... basically half or third of every F-16 ever produced. Fighter would cost about perhaps Tens of millions, Low RCS Cruise missile ? 1 M USD. Great financial win there for China.

Having AEW would be great. It is not in the slide yet but S-band AEW can basically Halve the number of the required fighters. Moving to L-band will further halving the required number of fighters. e.g. No AEW = 117 Su-35 needed to counter 0.001 sqm. S-band AEW = 59 fighters can cover, L-band AEW = 30 fighters.
Indonesia was back in 1996. made study on AEW but as you see it never made any progress. That's basically the Low observable part.

The NCW part is basically... well All potential threat nations have AEW, Networking. What are we going to do with it ? Discussions so far at least in our community is that "Indonesia should do NCW too.. having datalink bla-bla-bla" But nothing on "What should we do to make the other side cannot use their NCW". Shooting down Enemy AEW or BACN Aircraft or at least jam their network hasnt yet to enter the realm of our thoughts. This i would love if our nation paid attention into.

 

[GTX]

Indonesia wants to buy Austria's Eurofighters

not too long ago I joked around about Indonesia wanting to buy Eurofighters, Rafales, Hornets, etc to complete their collection of 4th gen fighters..
but I guess it might come true lol

Indonesia is said to be interested in Austrian Eurofighters - NewsABC.net

Indonesia wants to buy the Austrian Eurofighter. Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto offers his counterpart Klaudia Tanner (ÖVP) in a letter to buy all 15 interceptors, reports The press in their Sunday edition. The defense department confirmed receipt of the letter but did not want to comment...

newsabc.net

my question is
1. what will Austria replace their Typhoons with?
2. will Indonesia replace any aircraft in return? Austrian Typhoons are quite limited IRC