Early Boeing Jet Fighters: Model 449, 454, 455, 457, 459

Antonio

Antonio

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I received my copy a few days ago. Congratulations to Mr Buttler, the book is a marvel as every work coming from you.
It is a lot of information to enjoy so I have decided to start with a preliminary reading. I have found that some projects are known to exist but neither description nor illustrations are available. However some projects while are described in detail, no illustration is included into the book. In some cases, Mr Buttler admits the existence of illustration (ie. see page 40 Boeing Model 454 and 459). Are not illustrated due to lack of space, copyright issues,...?.

And my question is the following: is there any possibility to see drawings for that projects in the future?

Thanks

Antonio
 
pometablava said:
(ie. see page 40 Boeing Model 454 and 459). Are not illustrated...
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HAW-HAW! Guess who has three-views, data and artwork...

;D :p

(My guess on why they weren't in the book is due to Intellectual Property Rights/Copyright issues with Boeing. This is why I'm doing all these damned drawings myself anymore...)
 
Orionblamblam said:
Just pulling some imagery out of storage... dunno if any of this is in Tonys book.

Model 449
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Tony's book is mostly line drawings and model shots. Not much artwork (due to copyright issues).
 
Hesham, it was Navy Night Fighter - that clearly written in data sheet OrionBlamBlam posted in attachment
 
Ummm, don't know what you guys think, but this forum is the REAL REFERENCE work (in progress...) on unbuilt projects, worldwide. We just could offer an online updating and correction services for printed works ;D ;D ;D
And hats off to Scott, who deserves every bit of his "SuperGuru" title.
 
Scott,

Mine's will be the first order if you never make an American Secret Projects Supplement CD.
 
pometablava said:
Scott,

Mine's will be the first order if you never make an American Secret Projects Supplement CD.
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That's something I've contemplated, awaiting the outcome of Tony's work (ain't no point in duplication of effort). But the same Copyright/IP issue remains with respect to publishing company art or drawings. So, once again... gotta redraw all this stuff. Gahhhhhrrrrr....
 
Skybolt said:
Ummm, don't know what you guys think, but this forum is the REAL REFERENCE work (in progress...) on unbuilt projects, worldwide. We just could offer an online updating and correction services for printed works ;D ;D ;D
And hats off to Scott, who deserves every bit of his "SuperGuru" title.
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Don't forget that we are standing on the shoulders of giants here. While some of us here are undertaking primary research, like Skybolt, most materials posted here are second hand. If it wasn't for the efforts of professional aviation writers we would have very few posts.

There are some projects posted in the forum that aren't in American Secret Projects, and its great for us to havethe ability to post additional information we find here on the forum. However, there is tonnes of unique material in ASP that isn't on the forum, and it is a 240 page book, with lots of words, all carefully researched, photographs, and drawings made especially for the book.

99% of this forum is "heres a pic I found", not detailed research into a project from primary sources.

Therefore its not really correct, and quite disparaging to the work of dedicated authors, to say the forum is "the REAL REFERENCE work". Its an addition to published books like the Secret Projects series, not a substitute.
 
99% of this forum is "heres a pic I found", not detailed research into a project from primary sources.

Therefore its not really correct, and quite disparaging to the work of dedicated authors, to say the forum is "the REAL REFERENCE work". Its an addition to published books like the Secret Projects series, not a substitute.
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I agree.

Unfortunately, most people here would love to be into the first division but only have the oportunity of being "secondary source" researchers. We can't replace those magnificent writer's work. In fact, the forum is a place to share our admiration for their work. However, I think we could proudly say that some day our own humble research/compilation work will help in making the forum a reference for the enthusiasts.
 
Hi,

can I ask what was the competitions which those Boeing designs
were submitted ?.
 
US Navy carried-based day fighter: the winner design was Vought F7U Cutlass
 
Boeing typically ask for $200-300 per image reproduced in a book or magazine, as Scott has mentioned before. This makes it very hard to include these images in a published book. I would say that these drawings, while interesting, are of somewhat marginal interest, and you have to ask - what should have been dropped from American Secret Projects to allow their inclusion?
 
Naturally, no one ever wanted to disparage the work of anyone...
But I think, kudos to Mr Paul Overscan's glorious idea two years ago or so, it's not so trivial that a forum ends up containing the amount of material we have now here. Probably I wouldn't had to use the "reference" word, but the encyclopedic one, yes. Now, if you want to have an idea on some unbuilt project you come here first and then start widening your search.
Augh !

:)
 
I think everyone could work that out for themselves.... Not sure it was worth resurrecting a 15 year old topic for.
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
I think everyone could work that out for themselves.... Not sure it was worth resurrecting a 15 year old topic for.
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The Boeing Model 457 is described in detail in the US Fighter Projects #2 publication. Did you ask Tony Buttler why he didn't include the Model 454 and 459 designs in his book Early US Jet Fighters despite both the Model 454 and 459 being jet fighter projects?
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
Did you even read the topic? You can probably infer the answer correctly.
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Reply #2 of this thread says that neither the Model 454 nor Model 459 were included due to intellectual property rights/copyright issues with Boeing. Since Buttler is working on a revised edition of his American Secret Projects volume on fighter aircraft envisaged since 1945, hopefully he can ask Boeing permission for him to publish company drawings for the Model 454 and 459.
 
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Boeing demand vast sums of money for rights to reproduce their material in a book. Unless that is changed, don't hold your breath.
 

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