DuPont Aerospace Projects

[Stargazer]

The STOVL buff in me yells "YEEEEESSSSS"!!!

 

[Machdiamond]

Ok I just scanned it, 86 pages actually.

http://www.machdiamonds.com/DP-2%20duPONT%20JET%20TRANSPORT%20MODEL%20SPECIFICATION.PDF

As you can see, it is a very shallow and generic type specification document that will not tell you much about anything.

--Luc

PS: File is too large to attach, mods feel free to edit my message and upload the file.

 

[Retrofit]

Ok I just scanned it, 86 pages actually.

Thanks Machdiamond

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks a lot!

 

[Machdiamond]

While looking for something completely unrelated, I stumbled upon this report so I thought I might as well post this here:

Investigation of Flow Instabilities in the Inlet Ducts of DP–1C VTOL Aircraft

http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/reports/2008/CR-2008-215216.pdf

Some images from the report:

 

[Stargazer]

Nice pics... but that plane is something of a joke, right? Does anyone know any image of it actually FLYING? (which is, after all, what it was built to do?). I don't think I've ever seen one. Even the XFV-12A took off in tethered mode...

 

[Machdiamond]

In my opinion, yes it is a complete joke. A project like that had zero chance of success, even without hindsight.

Having said that, some people worked really hard and believed in it and I have some respect for that.

--Luc

 

[Machdiamond]

I keep stumbling upon fairly decent documents about the DP-2 while looking for something totally unrelated, so here goes:

http://www.vtol.org/f64_bestPapers/advancedVerticalFlight.pdf The DP-2 Jet Lift Vertical Takeoff and Landing Advanced Technology Demonstration Program.

--Luc

 

[Grey Havoc]

Good find! I found the highlighted sections in particular interesting:

COMPOSITE MATERIALS
The DP-2 concept, and the DP-1 test aircraft, incorporated extensive use of composites. The airframe structure was manufactured out of two types of composite material systems, one for the basic airframe and the other for the TVCS area that requires exposure to high temperatures. The airframe structure was mostly manufactured using a fiberglass reinforced polyimide honeycomb (HRH-327) and graphite and cyanate ester prepreg skin (LTM45) configuration. All of the structure was vacuum bag/oven cured instead of using an autoclave. Major joints of the airframe were bonded together using film adhesive, minimizing fastener use. The material choices would be a concern if the concept were to be operated in a maritime environment, but were usable in the test article to prove the concept.

The major risk with composite materials was in the exhaust hot section. The nozzle box in which the TVCS was mounted, the cascades, the deflection doors, and the control surfaces were manufactured from composite material. Several delaminations and failures of nozzle box honeycomb sandwich panels were experienced during the course of testing. Eventually all honeycomb sandwich panels in the nozzle box, cascades, and doors were replaced with a coreless construction, using skins supported by an internal truss structure. Material used was graphite and cyanate ester prepreg matrix material (Advanced Ceramics Group LTM110).

 

[Stargazer]

Surprising though it may seem, there has never been a topic in the "Postwar Aircraft Projects" section devoted to the DuPont DP-2 project.

And yet the DP-2 did not consist only in the infamous white prototype (white elephant!) that has been covered in other places, but also in a passenger-transport derivative that was meant to be developed from it. I've enclosed an article from AIR INTERNATIONAL dated March 1984 as well as a couple of artist's concepts.


Other DuPont-related topics on the forum:

• DuPont Aerospace DP-2 STOVL transport as featured on ABC news.....
  http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1979.0
  
• DuPont Aerospace VSTOL Model
  http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11474.0
  
• DuPont Aerospace DP-2 Model
  http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10398.0

 

[Grey Havoc]

Can't access the last two linked topics. Haven't earned enough access?

Thanks.

 

[Triton]

Dupont Aerospace DP-2 model found on eBay.

According to seller, only ten models were made.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-AEROSPACE-DP-2-VTOL-aircraft-Concept-AIRLINER-VERSION-display-model-/230760763256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ba69cf78

 

[Jemiba]

Interesting, as it looks considerable different to that design we had
here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1979.15.html, #26, 28

 

[circle-5]

Photo of the DuPont DP-1 VTOL proof-of-concept vehicle, taken yesterday at the Classic Rotors museum in Ramona, California. The DP-1 program was de-funded by DARPA a few days after its most successful test flight.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-DP-2-US-MARINES-VTOL-AIRCRAFT-DISPLAY-MODEL-/230774696742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bb3e6b26

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Jemiba]

The same model as this one http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1979.msg149175.html#msg149175 , #48,
even the same stande, just with another livery ?

 

[flateric]

'Mum, they are back!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50gC3Cm9WWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XiBOuU8efs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idWLtymCBRE&feature=channel&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arlDGl7_V74&feature=relmfu

 

[Stargazer]

From the "Flying Cars" topic, a very interesting first-hand opinion on the DP-2...

 

[Mr London 24/7]

The team (in 1996), which also included Pratt & Whitney, built a full scale test article which was tested at the P&W West Palm Beach facility with some success. DuPont’s vectoring system turned the gas turbine engine thrust with acceptable efficiency. Unfortunately, duPont’s composite material curing process did not result in adequate temperature survivability and the structure lacked adequate strength.

http://gop.science.house.gov/Media/Hearings/oversight07/June12/scheuren.pdf

I suppose refs same test as http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1979.msg16917.html#msg16917

 

[circle-5]

Keep your eyes open for an article on the DuPont DP-1 and DP-2 in the April-May 2014 issue of the Smithsonian's Air & Space magazine.

 

[Stargazer]

Keep your eyes open for an article on the DuPont DP-1 and DP-2 in the April-May 2014 issue of the Smithsonian's Air & Space magazine.

Awkward choice of dates. Some readers might think it's an April Fool's joke... LOL

 

[Archibald]

So far Tony Dupont career milestones include
- Garret ATF-3
- Garrett... HRE (Hypersonic Research Engine)
The HRE was a scramjet which mockup was carried by the X-15A-2 the day (October 3, 1967) it reached mach 6.7 and nearly melted. Never realised until recently that HRE ground-based research lasted until 1974, far beyond the X-15 itself.
Later it was found (by Langley RC) that Dupont podded scramjets had too much drag.
- Copper Canyon / Orient Express (1982 - 1993)
- and the DP-2

Is it just me, or are there some strinking similarities between the X-30 and DP-2, both expensive boondoggles ?

 

[VTOLicious]

In regards of the Garret ATF-3:
A very unique and interesting engine. It's worth to note that it was installed in Tactic Blue and Compass Cope.
http://www.atf3.org/Airframes.html

 

[Stargazer]

Is it just me, or are there some strinking similarities between the X-30 and DP-2, both expensive boondoggles ?

You are even closer to the truth than you thought... DuPont actually submitted a contender for the X-30 design competition! It can be seen in the Orient Express/X-30 topic on this very forum I think.

 

[circle-5]

DuPont X-30 (NASP) Proposal.

 

[ouroboros]

In regards of the Garret ATF-3:
A very unique and interesting engine. It's worth to note that it was installed in Tactic Blue and Compass Cope.
http://www.atf3.org/Airframes.html

Very few engines that adopt 360 airflow turning. Must have been an interesting motivation.

 

[AeroFranz]

One was the very good mixing of the hot and cold streams (lower IR signature).
Reverse flow engines also tend to have shorter shaft.

 

[Archibald]

Some interesting articles shedding light on the DP-2 boondoggle

http://www.wired.com/2007/06/hunters_folly_6/

SKYBLAZER - Keep your eyes open for an article on the DuPont DP-1 and DP-2 in the April-May 2014 issue of the Smithsonian's Air & Space magazine.

You can read it here
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/puzzle-vertical-takeoff-180950147/

The whole story is very appalling. $63 million burned over two decades for a piece of junk that was dismissed by the Navy, DARPA and NASA altogether.
Only because Dupont fed Duncan Hunter political campaigns.My God.

As for the Orient Express - Dupont baseline weighed only 50 000 pounds. NASA doing the maths properly later (too late ?) showed that a) the plane couldn't made it to orbit, b) it had no undercarriage and c) it carried zero payload

 

[Stargazer]

Some interesting articles shedding light on the DP-2 boondoggle

Very interesting. We all knew it was a disaster, but this sheds some new light as to how much... Thanks a lot for sharing.

 

[iverson]

The whole story is very appalling. $63 million burned over two decades for a piece of junk that was dismissed by the Navy, DARPA and NASA altogether.
Only because Dupont fed Duncan Hunter political campaigns.My God.

As for the Orient Express - Dupont baseline weighed only 50 000 pounds. NASA doing the maths properly later (too late ?) showed that a) the plane couldn't made it to orbit, b) it had no undercarriage and c) it carried zero payload

It is worth noting that it is a little unfair to attribute Mr. Hunter's support purely to campaign contributions.

Mr. Hunter is a typical example of a type of super-patriotic, right-wing politician in America. He equates the defense of the country with being pro-military and equates being pro-military with being pro-defense-contractor. When these "private sector" companies (Good) come into conflict with "Government" (Bad), as personified by technical experts and accountants at DoD, NASA, or the services ("Pointy Headed Bureaucrats"), he reflexively backs the contractor (Profit is Good). So I am sure that Mr. Hunter was sincere in his opinions. He viewed his support for Dupont and Dupont's support for him as entirely justified. Randy Cunningham probably felt the same way.

As a wise man once said, patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels. So I never trust anyone who wears one of those little flag pins in his lapel.

 

[Archibald]

It is interesting to review Tony Dupont career in hypersonic research. DuPont is the link between the X-15A-2 and the X-30, through NASA Hypersonic Research Engine.
The HRE was a podded scramjet to be mounted below the X-15A-2 belly.
There were three competitors for the HRE - Garrett Airesearch was one of them. There, Tony Dupont did a good job on the HRE. Except that, during HRE X-15 and ground testing, it was found that podded scramjet were crap. They had too much drag and too little thrust.
According to a NASA Langley engineer he managed to convince Dupont to go for integrated-airframe scramjet (see the X-30 and X-43 shape).

Dupont stuck with its scramjet and in 1982-83 he was the driving force behind DARPA Copper Canyon.

I'm getting out of topic, so I'll be brief. DuPont supporter at DARPA was Robert Williams, a very good aerodynamicist... for helicopters, not scramjets.
Over the next five years Williams remained a staunch supporter of Dupont baseline X-30... which was based on extremely optimistic estimates.
Robert Williams was by himself the driving force behind another aerodynamic aberration of the 80's, the X-wing helicopter. http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,117.msg27454.html#msg27454

I'm suspecting that Robert Williams believed that Dupont NASP was to aircrafts what his X-wing was to helicopters: the beginning of a revolution. We all know how both revolution ended.

What strikes me is that NASP ran for seven years, swallowed billion of dollars - yet the whole thing was based on a very flawed Dupont design !

 

[AeroFranz]

Interesting background. Thanks!

 

[Stargazer]

I'm suspecting that Robert Williams believed that Dupont NASP was to aircrafts what his X-wing was to helicopters: the beginning of a revolution. We all know how both revolution ended.

What strikes me is that NASP ran for seven years, swallowed billion of dollars - yet the whole thing was based on a very flawed Dupont design !

Not to mention the vast number of would-be revolutionary bizjet designs based on Williams jets that ate up a lot of dough but never took off commercially!

 

[Machdiamond]

Sam Williams is not from the same planet as Robert.

 

[Stargazer]

Sam Williams is not from the same planet as Robert.

OOOOPS!!! My bad! Got carried away here and went completely off... Of course it's not the same Williams, shame on me!

 

[Dynoman]

Interesting Congressional Testimony on X-30 by Anthony (Tony) DuPont.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?33140-1/national-aerospace-airplane-x30-program

 

[RAP]

Dupont DP-1 VTOL Aircraft

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-DP-1-Vertical-takeoff-Jet-US-NAVY-AIRPLANE-AIRCRAFT-DISPLAY-MODEL-/232169866954?hash=item360e6706ca:g:UZsAAOSwiDFYNNGa

 

[hesham]

From L + K 1/1982.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

I found some more picures of the DP-2. What method of VTOL would it have used and were there any further projects besides the ones mentioned on this thread?

 

[blackkite]