Drones and how to kill them?

We're also reaching peak transistors, so computers will likely stagnate over the coming decades, like how internal combustion engines did in the 80's. I suspect a decade from now GANs will still be producing incoherent semi-dreamlike ramblings rather than coherent sentences. Frightening for horoscope writers but not much else.
In addition, you're not taking physics, quantum mechanics, and reality into account here. We're already hitting the top end of what solid-state electronics can do, and the most likely prospect for AGIs is quantum computing, which is barely in its infancy right now
There is still orders of magnitudes speed up possible by converting hardware from general purpose to single purpose even without new scientific development, just more engineering work.

All the very thorough knowledge of working with low level programming that would allow for this is long, long gone and likely never coming back though. The days of needing to count bits and manage memory like on a C64 or something are dead and over for at least the past 10, if not closer to 20, years. Modern programmers only know Javascript, C++, and Python, broadly speaking, and this is a problem for writing things that can take full advantage of existing computational architecture. If only because there aren't any new, young people who are relatively well versed in it this seems very unlikely to occur in general. There's also an expectation that any problems with efficiency can be overcome with more muscle, which is not going to be the case in the future, as we're reaching peak transistor size and stuff like qubits and photonic computing are either appearing to be blind alleys or perennially 20 years away, respectively.

It might be the case for the odd supercomputer, I guess, at least until the programmer(s) retire, but not for general use. Stuff like compiler creation are still just running off inertia of slowly aging and close to retirement programmers due to the neglect of the past generation (or two) in programming at very low levels, and the only place Assembly has left is coding things like street lights and other embedded systems, at least sometimes. There are now Windows Embedded editions, after all, so it's possible street lights in the future might run off Windows or something.

This is caused, ironically, by increasing availability of computing resources allowing for use of large libraries with relatively little (but absolutely large) overhead and allowing computers to just eat software bloat. Lack of education and dearth of widespread knowledge of low level programming ability is another reason why computing power is likely going to stagnate in the coming decades, as people are not going to have sufficient ability, nor sufficient availability of teachers, to take advantage of existing powerful CPUs and whatnot. Even if there are the occasional people in every generation who are interested autonomously in the subject (I recently saw a video of a guy who reverse engineered a PSOne programming architecture to make a simple tech demo, for instance), they will not be formally recognized for any sort of military purposes unless they become interested in that subject I suppose, so it's very much reactive.

In other words, it's literally becoming lost knowledge that will have to be rediscovered and it likely won't be. Which will vex "AI researchers" in some way I'm sure. OTOH people have developed algorithms that allow for flocks of starlings to be simulated in virtual environments, so it's likely that AI may just evolve to being bird-like for small aircraft swarms. Really, the idea of actually needing decent low level skills to emulate artificial intelligence in meaningful ways is itself highly dubious, since we're able to make pretty robust AI systems in video games with 15-20 year old hardware, using simple finite state machines.

The "good" news is that AGI already exists: it's called a maid. We'll sooner see the return of indentured domestic servants than robots tbh. The "bad" news is that AGI, at least for robots, is unlikely to be possible at any point in history. It's a bit like nuclear fusion, except we know that nuclear fusion works, because the Sun and thermonuclear weapons do it. So it's not really like nuclear fusion at all.

The other good news, actually good rather than ironic, is that you don't actually need AGI for weapons guidance, obviously.

You just need to tell an autonomous weapon swarm to go attack or defend some particular object and have it run through a massive library of images and ML trained databases to identify armored vehicles and infantrymen. Perhaps it can be electrically powered and recharge through wireless power transmission using a large transmitter near the object, so it can infinitely cycle itself through a looping path without running out of juice? Something like a far-field rectenna using a microwave wide area transmitter, hooked up to solar panels or a tiny nuclear reactor, for the purpose of powering and conveying orders to a defensive robotic swarm. Opening a box and letting the bugbots fly around would certainly be less annoying than placing Hornets and Spiders around a object. Maybe. Might be loud.

Presumably it can take off like a swarm intellect al a flock of birds, school of fish, or swarm of ants, all highly robust logical systems that require simple algorithms and can be replicated on ancient (20 year old) hardware these days, and kill people you need dead if they get too close. This might have an attack vector using thermoelectric panels or electrochromic cloth to disguise a field force as a harmless flock of sheep or cows, when in actuality it's a platoon or demi-company of ZTZ-34s or M25 Milleys with attendant infantrymen, but that's just normal weapons development.
 
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The FK-3000 auxiliary unmanned vehicle with 24 mini-SAMs is a pretty interesting idea. It seems to me such a vehicle can become organic to many formations to defeat drone swarms.

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Small Airplanes must be fought with small missiles!
 
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:oops:
• 150 heavy machine guns with thermal imagery sights to counter Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS).
 
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I guess this is what much of western forces is counting on. It seems a munition more suited to lighter vehicles, which is definitely needed given the hundreds of kilometer reach of some loitering munitions..

It seems to me that maneuver formations really ought to have more capable weapons for increased mutual support and increased capability to defeat higher velocity munitions that expensive close combat forces would face.
 
Small airplanes must be fought with small missiles!

There however is no rule prohibiting "missiles" from having airplane-like functionality, including a cheap piston engine. The missile just has to be fast enough to overtake the drone-class against which it will be used.

Guidance systems actually are much easier when the differential speed between the target and the missile is only moderate...another advantage, over and above the cost advantage over turbojets, boosted ramjets or high performance chemical rockets, of chasing a piston engine with another (but somewhat faster) piston engine.
 
Those tiny missiles are also going to be used to kill supersonic artillery shells and anti-tank missiles though.
 
Imagine swarms of mechanical bees with loaded with venom from the box jelly fish or something worse.
 
Imagine swarms of mechanical bees with loaded with ... something worse.

Smallpox, baby. Don't even need to sting you, just spritz a mist in your vicinity. Perhaps they're trained to hang out near ventilation systems. Airports. Train stations. Hospitals (hit those first, take out the medical experts).

Train them to land on and infect door handles. Seek out fresh food in grocery stores or open-air markets. Fruits, vegetables, meat, all get a tiny dose. Avoid actual humans who might notice that, up close, the bugs are a little funny.

Even better: use the bees to distribute. Use the mechanical *sparrows* to hang out in trees or on buildings where proper resources are available to feed the bioreactor that makes *more* smallpox. When a bee has dumped it's load, it flies up to the reactor to top up and resume the fight. An entire genocide in something the size of a Logan's Run lunchbox.
 
Flamethrowers and ratshot for defense…maybe attack during high winds to limit smaller swarmbots?

The tiny murderbots might be what saves tanks in calm conditions. Swarm comes in…close the hatch…set off a fuel-air on your own position and swat them all at once. A soIdier out in the open gets stung to death before he can use a MANPAD. There was mention of metal locusts at the end of days.
 
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View: https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1607337482542096384

The South Korean military aired warning broadcasts and fired warning shots.

It also deployed fighters, attack helicopters and aircraft to warn off the drones.

The military also deployed a KA-1 light attack aircraft, which crashed in Hoengseong County in Gangwon at 11:39 a.m. The two pilots on board escaped safely. The cause of the crash was not yet known.
 
What?! A KA-1 crashed while intercepting a NK UAV... That's potentially and technically an aerial victory if both where close enough to call it an engagement and the drone survived a bit longer.
 
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Or you could do the sensible thing and jam them. The required computing power to make drones semi-autonomous is pretty hefty and impossible to fit on something that small, so they'll need a direct link to a computer.

You would have to provide high-intensity jamming of entire regions 24/7. Your jamming systems would themselves make spectacular targets.

As to the computer power being impossible to pack that small: Miller's Law. Today? impossible. Tomorrow? Difficult. Day after? Available on Amazon. Day after that: in the checkout aisle next to the gum.
The biggest problem is the fact that to pump out the required processing power (and note, Moore's Law has the caveat of physics and reality being the upper limits), you'll need a lot of energy, and we've been hitting problems in the solid-state processor field including quantum interference
You know what's proven to do the job at those scales? Organic brains. Bug brains. Brains genetically modifed and grown in vast numbers in vats specifically for this sort of application seem entirely doable. Genetic modification of bees or flies or cockroaches to serve as the control systems of more capable mechancial drones seem feasible. Grow 'em in situ using drone structures made out of, say, pressed paper. Cheap as dirt, minimal lifespan, biodegradable. Store at low temperature, raise to room temperature in thier transport case, provide specific programming, then release and let the little biomechanical horrors do their things.
Here's the thing, we don't know how to program brains at all. Even if you could make factories for cybernetic bug brains, we don't know where to begin in terms of programming them. Hell, we're still scratching our heads about how brains do things more often than not.
They managed to train pigeons to guide gravity weapons back in the 40's. With similar methodology today it will not be too hard or too long once the decision is made.
 
South Korea's military has apologised for failing to shoot down five drones that North Korea flew across their mutual border on Monday.
Seoul fired warning shots and sent jets and attack helicopters to shoot down the aircraft, one of which flew close to the capital.
Despite a five-hour pursuit, the drones reportedly all returned to North Korea.
South Korea's President has said that the incident showed the military's readiness was "greatly lacking".
South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff, which represents the major branches of its armed services, acknowledged in a statement on Tuesday that while the military can counter "attack drones that pose a real threat", it is limited in its ability to detect and strike smaller spy drones.
"Our military's lack of preparedness has caused a lot of concern to the people," said a senior official, Kang Shin-chul. He added that the military would "actively employ detection devices to spot the enemy's drone from an early stage and aggressively deploy strike assets".
 
Reaching stage where best defence against drones is 'similarly sized' drones ?

Which, in turn, need a way to deploy in target zone. So, you need chunky drones with 'quick-launch plus loiter' to cover your locality, progressively dispensing multiple mini-drones that use eg terahertz to locate and kill hostile ilk during their brief life...

If necessary, fly carrier drone wide to deploy such from up-wind, the 21st century equivalent of Age of Sail's 'Weather Gage'...

Um, what does it take to set off the reactive armour 'bricks' seen on eg Russian tanks ? At least the working version there-of ??
Having a 'swarm of battle-bees' (*) descend on such and demolish the armour's 'osteoderm / scute' analogs would not only be an 'Oh, Fook !!' moment for crew, but leave the target so much more vulnerable to 'incoming' fire...

*) Thanks, OBB !!
 
Reaching stage where best defence against drones is 'similarly sized' drones ?

Which, in turn, need a way to deploy in target zone. So, you need chunky drones with 'quick-launch plus loiter' to cover your locality, progressively dispensing multiple mini-drones that use eg terahertz to locate and kill hostile ilk during their brief life...

If necessary, fly carrier drone wide to deploy such from up-wind, the 21st century equivalent of Age of Sail's 'Weather Gage'...

Um, what does it take to set off the reactive armour 'bricks' seen on eg Russian tanks ? At least the working version there-of ??
Having a 'swarm of battle-bees' (*) descend on such and demolish the armour's 'osteoderm / scute' analogs would not only be an 'Oh, Fook !!' moment for crew, but leave the target so much more vulnerable to 'incoming' fire...

*) Thanks, OBB !!
Don't need that. Just punch a hole in the main gun.
 
They managed to train pigeons to guide gravity weapons back in the 40's. With similar methodology today it will not be too hard or too long once the decision is made.
Sorry, but I'm stumped and laughing if that's your take on it. The US and other nations tried pulling this, and it didn't work.
 
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Rome was not built in a day, if it fails today, try again tomorrow. That's how technology gets to work.
 
Drones and perhaps high speed flechettes might give new life to armor built to operate in a shrapnel rich rain that MANPAD equipped trucks and infantry would do poorly in if tiny murder drone hives are towed behind said armor.
 
I've seen an article recently in the french media. Which says a Shahed 136 cost $20 000 to build, and $500 000 to destroys. No idea whether those numbers make any sense.
 
Would getting hold of some of these help Ukraine pot drones?
Not viable, largely between high ammo expenditure and unresponsiveness (the same reasons killed it in US service and caused the development of Sgt. York, something that I've covered in some detail).

You're better off using AHEAD style AAGs than anything (a drone swarm that isn't high altitude (and if it's at high altitude, it isn't swarmable due to the requirements of getting that capability required mundo expenditures).
 
I could see old fishing nets and scaffolding being used there…something to snag at them.

Winds are a drones worst enemy. Maybe guided airflow can play a role in base construction and location.

My. Washington’s weather station is probably impervious to light air attack on some days.
 
Now some of these things can roll along the ground and go airborne at the last

They are getting better at avoiding crashes
https://techxplore.com/news/2023-03-algorithm-drones-colliding-midair.html
 
Would getting hold of some of these help Ukraine pot drones?

They already have them and have for several months now.

They would not be useful for smaller drones because VADS isn't designed to search an area for targets, it's designed to kill helicopters that are already detected, usually acoustically because helicopters are loud. They might serve as an okay terminal defense against subsonic cruise missiles or something, but their best use would be ground-ground in urban offensive combat, like how the ZSU-23-4 and ZSU-57-2 was used for in Chechnya. Drones are quiet enough that they can literally sneak up on you.

The numerous Iranian Shaheds are already being chewed up by ubiquitous 14.5mm ZPUs because they're slow, loud, and resemble target drones just with a explosive warhead, but if they were being used as frontline loitering munitions instead of ersatz cruise missiles they would probably be more effective.

ZALA Lancets and Switchblade 300s can probably be stopped if you had very modern airburst grenade launchers and APS radars, like the Israelis make, but that would require not using broadly 1980's weapons like Ukraine and Russia do. Modern militaries like Western Europeans and America can do this if they wanted to foot the bill. Maybe the PRC could. Russia will probably join them in the not terribly distant future, too. They're lightly constructed, have a decently large missile-like RCS, and present similar to identical threat profiles just as slower speeds.

The other types of drones such as the notorious hand grenade quadcopters and other craft-produced things, and their mortar bomb carrying bigger brothers, are probably impossible to stop for now except by having enough warm bodies to replace the casualties. Since they don't seem to be inflicting many casualties to begin with this is probably acceptable.

The best defenses against drones right now are concealment and cover. Camouflage netting, trenches with overhead cover, and numerous redundant dugouts will reduce casualties from drone attacks. Once people start developing platoon level air defense radars, and APS becomes as ubiquitous as thermal sights, the best defense will be an airburst grenade launcher or light automatic cannon like a ADEN/DEFA with VT ammunition.

edit: oh wait that's from Jan 7 lole wow nvm
 
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We are witnessing the beginning of a long and fascinating history. See those early images as the first aerial battle over France during WWI.

Who would have thought that the 21st century would be so plentiful of aerospace innovations!
 
We are witnessing the beginning of a long and fascinating history. See those early images as the first aerial battle over France during WWI.

Who would have thought that the 21st century would be so plentiful of aerospace innovations!


Something along the lines of tiny rockets (literally bottle-rocket sized) or some kind of small-calibre recoilless shotgun or rifle that could be carried and used against enemy drones might give rise to the first "fighter drones" The use of nets or grapple hooks might even catch on this time, or some sort of laser blinding or electronic interference.

The parallel to ww1 is striking.. first observation, of actual trenches, no less.. Then bombing, then air-to-air. The fragility of these small drones seems to mirror the wood & doped fabric of early aircraft, stricly speaking, composites are usually fabric in a resin matrix.. Interesting times indeed.
 
They already have them and have for several months now.

Source for the transfer of M163s to Ukraine? I can't find one on a quick search. We've sent Avengers, but I don't see any mention of Vulcans.
 

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