royabulgaf
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 29 December 2008
- Messages
- 673
- Reaction score
- 333
Everyone, thanks for the videos. They are very helpful.
Dassault Variable Geometry: Mirage G / G4 /G8 family
- Thread starter overscan (PaulMM)
- Start date
blackkite
Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
- Joined
- 31 May 2007
- Messages
- 8,655
- Reaction score
- 7,009
Hi! Russian site. G8A,etc.
No.4 and No.6(mockup?) picture shows G8A prototype nearing complition when cancelled in March 1976. Sad......
alternathistory.com
And
renax-sharkit.blogspot.com
No.4 and No.6(mockup?) picture shows G8A prototype nearing complition when cancelled in March 1976. Sad......
Проект истребителя ACF Super Mirage. Франция. Часть 1 - Альтернативная История
Проект истребителя ACF Super Mirage. Франция. Часть 1 - Альтернативная История
alternathistory.com
And
French Dassault ACF 01 or Super Mirage par Daniel Tromeur
Find the vues concerning my last kit, a crazy one : the French Dassault ACF 01 or Super Mirage , kit based from the Sharkit model. It is ...
renax-sharkit.blogspot.com
Attachments
Last edited by a moderator:
I want the plane AND the 2cv.
blackkite
Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
- Joined
- 31 May 2007
- Messages
- 8,655
- Reaction score
- 7,009
I think the best available G8A three side view drawing is in page 170 of "FRENCH SECRET PROJECTS Post War Fighter" J.C.Carbonel, because it's seems to be a official drawing.
And in page 192/193 of "Le Mirage F1 et les MIRAGES de seconde génération, voilure en fleche par Michel Liebert st Sébastien Buyck Premier tome: Projets et Prototypes".
And in page 192/193 of "Le Mirage F1 et les MIRAGES de seconde génération, voilure en fleche par Michel Liebert st Sébastien Buyck Premier tome: Projets et Prototypes".
Last edited:
the 2CV was 100 km per hour, 30 times slower than the Mirage...
blackkite
Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
- Joined
- 31 May 2007
- Messages
- 8,655
- Reaction score
- 7,009
I saw this beauty sometimes in Japan.
Also my onetime boss had this beauty.
www.iter.org
Also my onetime boss had this beauty.
Toshihide Tsunematsu
Attachments
Last edited:
blackkite
Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
- Joined
- 31 May 2007
- Messages
- 8,655
- Reaction score
- 7,009
This drawing is excellent.
NUSNA_Moebius
I really should change my personal text
- Joined
- 26 May 2012
- Messages
- 233
- Reaction score
- 133
That's one gorgeous looking interceptor. Almost a "French Foxbat" if you will.
blackkite
Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
- Joined
- 31 May 2007
- Messages
- 8,655
- Reaction score
- 7,009
Hi! Single TF306C engine Mirage G.
https://www.pinterest.jp/pin/267190190375252496/?lp=true
www.pinterest.jp
maquettes-missiles.blogspot.com
https://www.pinterest.jp/pin/267190190375252496/?lp=true
Log in | Dassault aviation, Fighter jets, Fighter aircraft
May 20, 2015 - Dassault Mirage G French development program for a variable-sweep wing multi-role aircraft for French Air Force and French Navy use. First flown in 1967, three prototypes were built. Technology from this project influenced a number of the early designs for the competition (VFX)...
www.pinterest.jp
Le Marcel Dassault "Mirage G".
maquettes-missiles.blogspot.com
Prints of Dassault Mirage G Swing-Wing Prototype in a Hangar with ?
Dassault Mirage G Swing-Wing Prototype in a Hangar with Pratt & Whitney P&W / Snecma Tf-306 Turbofan Jet-Engine Removed Date: 1967. Available as Framed Prints, Photos, Wall Art and Photo Gifts #MaryEvansPrintsOnline
www.prints-online.com
Attachments
Last edited:
blackkite
Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
- Joined
- 31 May 2007
- Messages
- 8,655
- Reaction score
- 7,009
Hi! Twin seat twin ATAR9K engine Mirage G8-01.
www.deviantart.com
alternathistory.com
Dassault Mirage G8-01 by fighterman35 on DeviantArt
www.deviantart.com
Mirage G/Mirage G8. Они предвещают будущее боевых самолетов компании Dassault - Альтернативная История
Mirage G/Mirage G8. Они предвещают будущее боевых самолетов компании Dassault - Альтернативная История
alternathistory.com
Attachments
Last edited:
blackkite
Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
- Joined
- 31 May 2007
- Messages
- 8,655
- Reaction score
- 7,009
Hi! Single seat Mirage G8-02.
Mirage G was developed into a twin-engine, two-seat nuclear strike fighter, the Mirage G4.
G4 was intended to be powered by Snecma M53 turbofan engines.
While two G4 were under construction the requirements changed and the French military requested that the design be converted into a dedicated interceptor, the Mirage G8.
Mirage G4-01 was redesignated G8-01 and remained a two-seat aircraft (first flight 8 May 1971) with the second aircraft, G4-02 becoming a single-seat version, G8-02 (first flight 13 July 1972).
But no funding was included for the Mirage G8 in the 1971-1976 French defence budget the aircraft did not enter production.
Among G family, only G, G8-01 and G8-02 realized.
“Mirage G8 02 made its maiden flight at Istres, on July 13, 1972, piloted by Jean-Marie Saget. For its first anniversary – and its 74th sortie – on July 13, 1973, it achieved the highest speed ever for an aircraft in Western Europe: Mach 2.34 at 42,000 ft.”
Movie here.
hushkit.net
Mirage G was developed into a twin-engine, two-seat nuclear strike fighter, the Mirage G4.
G4 was intended to be powered by Snecma M53 turbofan engines.
While two G4 were under construction the requirements changed and the French military requested that the design be converted into a dedicated interceptor, the Mirage G8.
Mirage G4-01 was redesignated G8-01 and remained a two-seat aircraft (first flight 8 May 1971) with the second aircraft, G4-02 becoming a single-seat version, G8-02 (first flight 13 July 1972).
But no funding was included for the Mirage G8 in the 1971-1976 French defence budget the aircraft did not enter production.
Among G family, only G, G8-01 and G8-02 realized.
“Mirage G8 02 made its maiden flight at Istres, on July 13, 1972, piloted by Jean-Marie Saget. For its first anniversary – and its 74th sortie – on July 13, 1973, it achieved the highest speed ever for an aircraft in Western Europe: Mach 2.34 at 42,000 ft.”
Movie here.
What was the fastest ever European aircraft — and why hasn’t its record been topped in half a century?
We all know the fastest US plane was the X-15 or SR-71, and the fastest Soviet was MiG-25 – but what was the fastest European? Was it Swedish? Nope, the fastest Swede was the Mach 2.1 Viggen…
hushkit.net
Attachments
Last edited:
NUSNA_Moebius
I really should change my personal text
- Joined
- 26 May 2012
- Messages
- 233
- Reaction score
- 133
Yeah but the overall configuration and planform is closer to the Foxbat. Give it twin tails and intake ramps........
- Joined
- 25 January 2020
- Messages
- 1,224
- Reaction score
- 1,789
Is it known what weaponry would have been carried by the Mirage G,G4, G8 and the ACF respectively?
Blitzer9856
ACCESS: Restricted
- Joined
- 13 August 2019
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 70
I wish to know too. Was it tested with missiles and cannons?
The usual French stuff. AN-52 tac nuke and the coming ASMP later on. Drop tanks, twin internal 30 mm DEFA guns, Matra 530 (interceptors) and Magic AAM (self defense). Durandal, AS30 and 30L, iron bombs.
Exocet for export only because it was the Navy business.
Dassault demonstrators seldom or never had guns, only later prototypes for AdA got them. Also dummy AAMs for photo ops (the 4000 particularly, up to 14 of them !). The G and G8 were flown with drop tanks - and that was it.
Exocet for export only because it was the Navy business.
Dassault demonstrators seldom or never had guns, only later prototypes for AdA got them. Also dummy AAMs for photo ops (the 4000 particularly, up to 14 of them !). The G and G8 were flown with drop tanks - and that was it.
- Joined
- 25 January 2020
- Messages
- 1,224
- Reaction score
- 1,789
I believe that the weaponry is mentioned in Jean-Christophe Carbonel's "French Secret Projects 2".
The Mirage G was an oddball. It was neither an interceptor nor a ground pounder nor a naval aircraft - because it never any RFP attached to it by the French military.
As such, its armement was never clearly defined. Much like the other Mirages it certainly would have had the classic twin DEFA 553 guns under the air intakes - and that's it.
It essentially was an opportunistic move by Dassault
- Putting VG wings on a F2 airframe (they were extremely similar)
- Also a way of screwing the AFVG they didn't liked very much.
The Mirage G4 and G8 by contrast got a clear RFP and requirement = successors to the Mirage IVA. Very much French miniature F-111 and very similar to the Tornado.
So they would have carried A2G weapons and free-fall tactical nukes similar to the Mirage IVA: AN-21 for high altitude (and suicide against SAMs) and the AN-22 low-altitude variant with a braking parachute.
In fact the G4 was F-111 in size, and the G8 shrunk to Tornado size.
The lone G4 prototype aparently morphed into the first G8, the -01 two-seater.
Mirage G8-02 was single seat and even faster. Mach 2.34 with Atar 9K50 on July 13, 1973 (my mother turned 30 years that day !)
There is a clear legacy between that second G8 and the ACF. With M53s and without the VG wing weight, it would have hit Mach 2.5 and chased those pesky MiG-25R caught spying the Pierrelate nuclear center in the Rhone Valley.
The ACF thus closely derived from the G8-02. The ASMP cruise missile was also created for the ACF in the mid-70's. Just like the Mirage 2000 that replaced it, there would have been an ACF -C single seat interceptor, and B/D/N two-seaters for conventional strike, training, and nuclear strike.
Just like the F-15/F-16, F-14/F-18, Su-27/ MiG-29 and 2000/4000, the ACF also had a low-end: the Mirage F1-M53 that lost to the F-16 in June 1975 and was immediately abandonned afterwards.
Mirage F1-Atar started entering service in spring 1973 but the Armée de l'Air was ready to switch to F1-M53 provided it was partially funded through the deal of the century. When it lost, the ACF died with it. Only for the high-low mix to return in the shape of the 2000/4000.
Only for the twin-jet heavy fighter to kick the bucket for the fifth time in a row (!) AFVG > G4 > G8 > ACF > 4000. Same player shoot again, sixth time was the charm (!) and the Rafale finally bet the odds two decades later.
The ASMP migrated to 18 upgraded Mirage IV-A rebranded Mirage IV-P (1978-1996, 2005 for reconnaissance). Next was the Mirage 2000N (1988-2014), and finally the Rafale.
As such, its armement was never clearly defined. Much like the other Mirages it certainly would have had the classic twin DEFA 553 guns under the air intakes - and that's it.
It essentially was an opportunistic move by Dassault
- Putting VG wings on a F2 airframe (they were extremely similar)
- Also a way of screwing the AFVG they didn't liked very much.
The Mirage G4 and G8 by contrast got a clear RFP and requirement = successors to the Mirage IVA. Very much French miniature F-111 and very similar to the Tornado.
So they would have carried A2G weapons and free-fall tactical nukes similar to the Mirage IVA: AN-21 for high altitude (and suicide against SAMs) and the AN-22 low-altitude variant with a braking parachute.
In fact the G4 was F-111 in size, and the G8 shrunk to Tornado size.
The lone G4 prototype aparently morphed into the first G8, the -01 two-seater.
Mirage G8-02 was single seat and even faster. Mach 2.34 with Atar 9K50 on July 13, 1973 (my mother turned 30 years that day !)
There is a clear legacy between that second G8 and the ACF. With M53s and without the VG wing weight, it would have hit Mach 2.5 and chased those pesky MiG-25R caught spying the Pierrelate nuclear center in the Rhone Valley.
The ACF thus closely derived from the G8-02. The ASMP cruise missile was also created for the ACF in the mid-70's. Just like the Mirage 2000 that replaced it, there would have been an ACF -C single seat interceptor, and B/D/N two-seaters for conventional strike, training, and nuclear strike.
Just like the F-15/F-16, F-14/F-18, Su-27/ MiG-29 and 2000/4000, the ACF also had a low-end: the Mirage F1-M53 that lost to the F-16 in June 1975 and was immediately abandonned afterwards.
Mirage F1-Atar started entering service in spring 1973 but the Armée de l'Air was ready to switch to F1-M53 provided it was partially funded through the deal of the century. When it lost, the ACF died with it. Only for the high-low mix to return in the shape of the 2000/4000.
Only for the twin-jet heavy fighter to kick the bucket for the fifth time in a row (!) AFVG > G4 > G8 > ACF > 4000. Same player shoot again, sixth time was the charm (!) and the Rafale finally bet the odds two decades later.
The ASMP migrated to 18 upgraded Mirage IV-A rebranded Mirage IV-P (1978-1996, 2005 for reconnaissance). Next was the Mirage 2000N (1988-2014), and finally the Rafale.
Blitzer9856
ACCESS: Restricted
- Joined
- 13 August 2019
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 70
Do you have a screenshot of it possibly?
- Joined
- 27 September 2006
- Messages
- 6,131
- Reaction score
- 6,263
D'oh ! I've just realized I was completely wrong there. Silly me. YES, the Mirage G had a requirement attached to it. It did not come out of nowhere, as a Dassault private venture to screw AFVG. This is an urban legend, somewhat.
The 1964 DAFNE (cute acronym !) was very much a F6D Missileer / F-111B / F-14 Tomcat wannabee, for Foch and Clemenceau carriers.
DAFNE mean "Defense Aerienne des Forces Navales... and the "E" meaning escape me but you get the point.
"Air Defense of Naval Forces" ADNF in english.
Just like the Missileer, F-111B and Tomcat "long range air defense of carrier task forces".
Breguet proposed their 1200 project for it
(note: the future Jaguar was next in the projects list: the same year 1964, 1210 become 121, then Breguet winning entry into ECAT the next year, May 1965: the "supersonic trainer attack plane" that led to the Jaguar)
And Dassault created the Mirage G.
I have the very old but still pertinent book "Les avions Breguets" in Pdf, I will post the Breguet 1200 DAFNE soon.
Well, no need - because of this > https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/aeronavale-projects-early-60s.445/
Last edited:
- Joined
- 25 January 2020
- Messages
- 1,224
- Reaction score
- 1,789
Unfortunately, no, however, I shall post it here when I have the time.
- Joined
- 3 September 2006
- Messages
- 1,441
- Reaction score
- 1,373
DAFNE: Défense Aérienne des Forces Navales Éloignées
nuuumannn
Cannae be ar*ed changing my personal text
- Joined
- 21 October 2011
- Messages
- 276
- Reaction score
- 538
blackkite
Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
- Joined
- 31 May 2007
- Messages
- 8,655
- Reaction score
- 7,009
Attachments
Last edited:
The following may perhaps be of interest.
In the spring of 1969, a well-known French aircraft manufacturer began discussions with the Government of Quebec. The Société des avions Marcel Dassault was considering the possibility of building a factory in Sainte-Scholastique, near the site of the future Montreal-Mirabel International Airport.
You see, virtually all French manufacturers of war material then found themselves faced with an unofficial ban imposed by the American government, which had been deeply angered by the attitude and actions of President Charles de Gaulle. A factory on Canadian soil could facilitate access to the American market for Marcel Dassault, which hoped to boost sales of his Fan Jet Falcon business jet. Better yet, the French aircraft manufacturer was not unaware that the Canadian government had withdrawn, in the spring of 1969, from a multirole combat aircraft program launched in 1968 by a few member countries of NATO to find a replacement for the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter supersonic fighter bomber. That program later gave birth to the Panavia Tornado. Indeed, Marcel Dassault offered to the Canadian Department of National Defence a multirole version of its brand new Mirage G8. Given the lack of a Canadian order for this supersonic jet then under development and the limited number of orders for the Fan Jet Falcon, Marcel Dassault soon abandoned its project in Quebec.
In the spring of 1969, a well-known French aircraft manufacturer began discussions with the Government of Quebec. The Société des avions Marcel Dassault was considering the possibility of building a factory in Sainte-Scholastique, near the site of the future Montreal-Mirabel International Airport.
You see, virtually all French manufacturers of war material then found themselves faced with an unofficial ban imposed by the American government, which had been deeply angered by the attitude and actions of President Charles de Gaulle. A factory on Canadian soil could facilitate access to the American market for Marcel Dassault, which hoped to boost sales of his Fan Jet Falcon business jet. Better yet, the French aircraft manufacturer was not unaware that the Canadian government had withdrawn, in the spring of 1969, from a multirole combat aircraft program launched in 1968 by a few member countries of NATO to find a replacement for the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter supersonic fighter bomber. That program later gave birth to the Panavia Tornado. Indeed, Marcel Dassault offered to the Canadian Department of National Defence a multirole version of its brand new Mirage G8. Given the lack of a Canadian order for this supersonic jet then under development and the limited number of orders for the Fan Jet Falcon, Marcel Dassault soon abandoned its project in Quebec.
Nice try, Tonton Marcel - but Canada in 1969 was no longer able to afford a Tornado look-alike... future belonged to the Hornet a decade later.
Also "vive le Québec libre" scandal probably didn't helped either.
De Gaulle was a visionary but he could also be an impulsive dickhead at times...
Also "vive le Québec libre" scandal probably didn't helped either.
De Gaulle was a visionary but he could also be an impulsive dickhead at times...
I very much agree that the Tornado and G-8 were out of financial reach. Belgium and the Netherlands also left the Tornado program. In any event, the Canadian military was unlikely to go for an aircraft which had yet to fly.
If I may, de Gaulle's statement may well have been linked to the very enthusiastic reception he got as soon as he set foot in Quebec, to his displeasure at Ottawa's refusal to sell uranium to France and problems with fishing rights in the Gulf of St Lawrence, and possibly other factors.
If I may, de Gaulle's statement may well have been linked to the very enthusiastic reception he got as soon as he set foot in Quebec, to his displeasure at Ottawa's refusal to sell uranium to France and problems with fishing rights in the Gulf of St Lawrence, and possibly other factors.
Last edited:
Sorry, did some one mention France and Tornado?
Sorry, I could not help myself
Back to your normal thread...
Sorry, I could not help myself
Back to your normal thread...
Sacrilège ! Nice camoSorry, did some one mention France and Tornado?
Sorry, I could not help myself
Back to your normal thread...
Mind you I regret they stopped using the blue/white/red on the rudder, and instead now use that stupid "Armée de l'Air" script...
They could have kept with the tradition with just a thin blue/white/red stripe across the rudder.
I mean , even in Spain they kept a small St Andrew cross on the rudder, even tho it dates back from the civil war.
- Joined
- 26 May 2006
- Messages
- 33,871
- Reaction score
- 14,213
Attachments
Similar threads
-
-
-
-
Anglo-French RR Spey timeline
- Started by Archibald
- Replies: 116
-
What if : "Only deltas" French Air Force post Mirage III- Started by Deltafan
- Replies: 8