Current US hypersonic weapons projects. (General)

[sferrin]

More hypersonic vaporware from the US.

 

[NMaude]

More hypersonic vaporware from the US.

Maybe, time will tell.

 

[Ronny]

View: https://youtu.be/yHuigtCP3IU?si=rnIqrhYH5Wg-Fe5t
https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...kheed-martin-unveils-mako-hypersonic-missile/

Air launched PRSM basically?, let go

 

[Ronny]

More hypersonic vaporware from the US.

This one is simple enough, not complex like scramjet and hypersonic boost glider. Hopefully they can do it

 

[NMaude]

This one is simple enough, not complex like scramjet and hypersonic boost glider. Hopefully they can do it

Do you have a link to the details? The Wikipedia doesn't appear to have anything.

 

[bobbymike]

Six per F-35 looks cool. An F-15EX must be able to carry a bunch.

 

[Forest Green]

Do you have a link to the details? The Wikipedia doesn't appear to have anything.

My guess is basically a PrSM with chines, attachment points and a 350lb warhead instead of a 200lb one. Theoretically it could manage ~1,000km from a high altitude supersonic launch off an F-15EX or similar. At 4m long it should fit internally in F-35A and Cs and maybe F-22s?



When you look at the big picture integration between that capability and the US Space Force GMTI capability, it's pretty game changing. Certainly wouldn't like to be a SAM radar operator.

Six per F-35 looks cool. An F-15EX must be able to carry a bunch.

And therein lies the real beauty. It isn't a huge 1 shot per aircraft missile.

 

[sferrin]

This one is simple enough, not complex like scramjet and hypersonic boost glider. Hopefully they can do it

Even China has had stuff like this for years. CM-400AKG

 

[TomcatViP]

Not hypersonic.

 

[Ronny]

Even China has had stuff like this for years. CM-400AKG

CM-400AKG (YJ-12) is supersonic but limited to Mach 4, roughly the same as AARGM-ER i think. Also CM-400 won’t fit inside F-35 internal weapon bay. Hypersonic missile that can fit inside the internal weapon bay is pretty useful I think

 

[Ronny]

Do you have a link to the details? The Wikipedia doesn't appear to have anything.

I unfortunately don’t have any link. But based on the shape, it quite clearly a simple rocket

 

[Dreamfighter]

If this was LM´s bid for SiAW, is NG´s SiAW 'hypersonic' as well?

 

[TAOG]

There may be 4 flight test of TBG (air launch).

According to previous budget, Raytheon and lockheed both have made 2 test vehicle.

TBG will end by 2024, no idea whether Navy or airforce will consider to transit it from RD to formal weapon development, especially TBG is contiuous to develop Navy variant which can be compatible with MK41 VLS.

 

[TAOG]

TBG FY2021-2024

FY2021-2022 seems like vehicle1 occur captive carriage flight testing fail but they fix the problem and return to flight test (see fy2022 document).

Second TBG performer refer to raytheon, which raytheon claim their winged glider is more advanced:


"... Meanwhile, Raytheon continues to develop its version of a winged glider under the TBG program as an alternative to Lockheed’s AGM-183A ARRW. The company’s goal is not to deliver a “me-too” version of the Lockheed design but something even more capable.

“We focused on capabilities that we don’t believe ARRW has,” Bussing says. “So I would look at Raytheon’s TBG solution as maybe the ARRW-2.” ..."

 

[TAOG]

Six per F-35 looks cool. An F-15EX must be able to carry a bunch.

But AARGM-ER could be carried 10 per F-35 (8 external+2 internal).

Is that mean LM's SiAW proposal is heavier than NG?

 

[Ronny]

But AARGM-ER could be carried 10 per F-35 (8 external+2 internal).

Is that mean LM's SiAW proposal is heavier than NG?

NG proposal currently is only an interim solution which is still AARGM-ER

 

[sferrin]

CM-400AKG (YJ-12) is supersonic but limited to Mach 4, roughly the same as AARGM-ER i think. Also CM-400 won’t fit inside F-35 internal weapon bay. Hypersonic missile that can fit inside the internal weapon bay is pretty useful I think

CM-400AKG (YJ-12)

Those are two different weapons.

YJ-12

 

[Josh_TN]

This one is simple enough, not complex like scramjet and hypersonic boost glider. Hopefully they can do it

They can do it; the question is whether anyone wants to buy it. It seems to fill a space already occupied by SiAW in terms of size and capability, though perhaps with more speed and range. It does look more or less like an air launched PrSM, and given that Incr 2 has a terminal seeker that can work against ships, the idea should work well enough were anyone to want to pay for it.

 

[Forest Green]

They can do it; the question is whether anyone wants to buy it. It seems to fill a space already occupied by SiAW in terms of size and capability, though perhaps with more speed and range. It does look more or less like an air launched PrSM, and given that Incr 2 has a terminal seeker that can work against ships, the idea should work well enough were anyone to want to pay for it.

Commonality with the PrSM (if we're correct) should also reduce the production costs of both missiles.

 

[kqcke for you]

that mean LM's SiAW proposal is heavier than NG?

Probaly. AARGM-ER only has 68% of the diameter of PrSM and this could be made even longer to 4.1m from 3.96m. well a higher diameter is also possible to around ~450-480mm but it looks not that fat (atleast as fat as a MK.84 or JSM).

Edit:
Lockheed's old Video for SiAW which only Shows the launch of the missile.

View: https://youtu.be/bqGzt64U-i4?si=TjdrDXrP1AJPAFS5

 

[Moose]

More hypersonic vaporware from the US.

RUMINT is describing this as "ready to cook," so I'm interested to see what we hear next. LM doesn't burn it's own cash without reason.

 

[Josh_TN]

RUMINT is describing this as "ready to cook," so I'm interested to see what we hear next. LM doesn't burn it's own cash without reason.

It may well be that it gets bought as a way of diversifying the production of munitions, even if it has a lot of overlap with SiAM. USAF is trying to stockpile as many PGMs and AAMs as it can in light of how exhausting the Ukraine war has been on everyone’s inventories. AGM-158 production is expanding and programs like ERAM (or USN MACE) seek to add faster to produce, lower cost weapons. We shall see.

Did not LM also produce a SiAM concept? They might simply have carried on development even after losing the contract.

 

[NMaude]

USAF is trying to stockpile as many PGMs and AAMs as it can in light of how exhausting the Ukraine war has been on everyone’s inventories.

So the USAF is going back to Cold War levels of munitions production and stockpiling?

 

[Scott Kenny]

So the USAF is going back to Cold War levels of munitions production and stockpiling?

I think they're trying to get back there.

 

[sferrin]

So the USAF is going back to Cold War levels of munitions production and stockpiling?

I hope so. The "Peace Dividend" killed us.

 

[TomS]

Did not LM also produce a SiAM concept? They might simply have carried on development even after losing the contract.

I've lost track. Do you mean SiAW, or is SiAM something different? If SiAW, there is a video just a couple of post up about LM's concept.

 

[Forest Green]

I hope so. The "Peace Dividend" killed us.

The peace dividend was time not money. They wasted the time and the banks wasted the money.

 

[bobbymike]

The peace dividend was time not money. They wasted the time and the banks wasted the money.

But mostly money especially procurement money

 

[kqcke for you]

„Osterhoudt described the Mako, which is powered by a solid-fuel rocket motor, as “the missile of 13s.” This reflects the missile’s dimensions — 13 feet long and 13 inches in diameter — as well as its weight of 1,300 pounds, including a 130-pound warhead.....
And when I say the next steps, it’s Preliminary Design Review Technology Readiness Level (TR) 6 or above.“
https://www.twz.com/air/the-lowdown-on-lockheeds-newly-revealed-mako-hypersonic-missile

 

[Desertfox]

Air-launched PrSM makes sense, just like the AS-24 Killjoy. Might explain ARRW being cancelled as well if you have a smaller missile that can do the same mission from a larger variety of platforms.

 

[sferrin]

„Osterhoudt described the Mako, which is powered by a solid-fuel rocket motor, as “the missile of 13s.” This reflects the missile’s dimensions — 13 feet long and 13 inches in diameter — as well as its weight of 1,300 pounds, including a 130-pound warhead.....
And when I say the next steps, it’s Preliminary Design Review Technology Readiness Level (TR) 6 or above.“
https://www.twz.com/air/the-lowdown-on-lockheeds-newly-revealed-mako-hypersonic-missile

"PDR". So they have the challenge coins and powerpoints nailed. I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.

 

[Dreamfighter]

"PDR". So they have the challenge coins and powerpoints nailed.

Which apparently took about 7 years of development (time) to get to.

 

[Josh_TN]

Air-launched PrSM makes sense, just like the AS-24 Killjoy. Might explain ARRW being cancelled as well if you have a smaller missile that can do the same mission from a larger variety of platforms.

It would not be anything like ARRW in terms of range or speed. It is essentially a different flavor of SiAW.

ARRW was probably cancelled because it was too expensive, serviced a niche use case (likely limited to static,soft targets), and was limited to B-52s which would likely already be over tasked.

 

[NMaude]

and was limited to B-52s which would likely already be over tasked.

I thought that the F-15E Strike Eagle would be able to carry it?

 

[Josh_TN]

I thought that the F-15E Strike Eagle would be able to carry it?

Possibly one on the centerline; it was never clear.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Possibly one on the centerline; it was never clear.

By weight, it should be able to carry 2x, one under each CFT. It may also be able to carry one on each wing since it can carry 5000lb bombs on the wing pylons.

 

[kqcke for you]

For me this weapon looks like a lost opportunity to make a weapon which fits the B version. To round everything Up:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1778503925789851895

View: https://x.com/AlexHollings52/status/1778503925789851895

 

[asVAL]

Mako is air launched PrSM? Now we are turning full circle back to air launched ATACMS.
To quote a famed SDF user:

laugh at Kinzhal, understand Kinzhal, become Kinzhal

Also if this is 13ft long and 13in in dia shouldn't it fit in Harpoon canisters nicely?

 

[kqcke for you]

Yes. Would be interresting to now if a Booster small enough to fit to make it achieve air launched capabilitys.

 

[litzj]

IMHO, it is not important that it would be regarded as Fancy Modern Hypersonic or not.

Recent US concentrates on out-numbering modest performance.

If it reach its target with reasonable react time and size, US says JUST OK