Cruiser Projects and Designs of the IJN

This is as the image describes, a modified Yubari, rather a preliminary. Can you provide a source,
 
Watching on page 605 of " Japan Cruisers of World War II" I suppose to recognized Super A Cruiser , addictional ships of Oyodo Class and addictional Katori ships class all mentioned on Warships of Japanese Navy 1869-1945.
 

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I've decided to take my bet on the Chichibu this Historical-Hypothetical design:

djj08l4-91c6579f-2084-400f-ad2e-6e16e942f5a2.png
 
Martes said:
The turrets seem way too heavy for the hull.
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A bit longer than the Deutschlands turrets and with similar armour it would weight just a bit heavier say 650tons
 
With very narrow and already traditionally unstable Japanese cruiser hull... 2-gun turrets would probably be safer. Or possibly change their design to extended 8" instead of miniature 18" with smaller carriage and barbette. But those are really too large.
 
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Martes said:
With very narrow and already traditionally unstable Japanese cruiser hull... 2-gun turrets would probably be safer. Or possibly change their design to extended 8" instead of miniature 18" with smaller carriage and barbette. But those are really too large.
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I assume you can read just forgot to do so.
In the link there is a description on the stats of the ship.
But I copy it here for you together the data of the Deutschland and one other similar Italian Design UP 102

Dimensions:
Chichibu: I've chosen 187,8 (pp) x 198,4 (wl) x 201,6 (oa) x 22 x 7,5 meters
Deutschland: 181,7 (wl) x 186 (oa) x 20,7 x 7,25 meters
UP 102 Design: 172,8 (pp) x 180 (wl) x 187,5 (oa) x 21 x 5,8 meters

Displacement:
Chichibu: 15.000tons (standard)
Deutschland: 10.600tons (standard) 16.200tons (full load)
UP 102 Design: 10.770tons (standard) 13.500tons (full load)

Engines:
Chichibu: Unknown likely 100-110.000shp Kampon Steam Turbines, 4 shafts
Deutschland: 54.000shp MAN Diesel Engines, 2 shafts
UP 102 Design: 75.000shp Parsons Steam Turbines, 4 shafts

Speed:
Chichibu: 57km/h (31knots)
Deutschland: 52km/h (28knots)
UP 102 Design: 57km/h (31knots)

Armour:
Chichibu: Unknown, I've chosen Uniform 150mm Belt, 50mm Deck, 70mm Slopes
Deutschland: 80mm Machniery, 60mm Magazines Belt, 40mm Deck, 10mm Slopes
UP 102 Design: 100mm Belt, 50mm Deck

Armaments:
Chichibu:
2x3 30,5cm/45 Type 37 Cannons (alternatively 2x3 31cm/50)
2x3 15,5cm/60 Type 90 Guns
4x2 10cm/60 Type 98 DP-AA Guns
8x3 25mm/60 Type 96 AA Guns
4x4 610mm Torpedo Tubes (Alternatively 4x3)
Deutschland:
2x3 283mm/52 SK C/28 Cannons
8x1 149mm/55 SK C/28 Guns
3x2 88mm/78 SK C/31 later 105mm/65 SK C/33 DP-AA Guns
4x2 37/83 SK C/30 AA Guns
8x1 20mm/65 C/30 AA Gun
2x4 533mm Torpedo Tubes
UP 102 Design:
2x3 280mm/50 Ansaldo Modello 1937 Cannons,
6x2 120mm/40 OTO Modello 1937 DP-AA Guns
8x2 40mm/56 Bofors m/36 AA Guns
8x2 20mm/65 Breda Modello 1935 AA Guns
2x3 533mm Torpedo Tubes

Seaplanes:
Chichibu:
1x Nakajima E8N Dave
2x Aichi E13A Jake
Deutschland:
2x Heinkel He-60
UP 102 Design:
2x IMAM Ro.43
 
Tzoli said:
I assume you can read just forgot to do so.
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:)))

I never said you can't fit two 3-gun turrets there. I just say that straight scaling-down Yamato turrets looks out of proportion and should we assume the Japanese made 3x12" with much less armour, as you said, they would look differently. Shorter, and most importantly, narrower. Settsu may be a better base for the turret design, that's all.
 
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Martes said:
I never said you can't fit two 3-gun turrets there. I just say that straight scaling-down Yamato turrets looks out of proportion and should we assume the Japanese made 3x12" with much less armour, as you said, they would look differently. Shorter, and most importantly, narrower. Settsu may be a better base for the turret design, that's all.
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Well, IJN did not have much experience in triple turrets, so they likely would use Yamato-class turrets as prototype anyway.
 
From which French naval magazine/book/booklet?
 
Dilandu said:
Initially I wanted to use modified turrets from Settu, but then I realized that four guns are statistically unsuitable to score hits in long-range battle.
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I think the turrets would have been based on the Settsu design, maybe slightly longer, but wider and with accordingly wider barbette and probably somewhat cramped inside. That should fit all right.
 
Martes said:
I think the turrets would have been based on the Settsu design, maybe slightly longer, but wider and with accordingly wider barbette and probably somewhat cramped inside. That should fit all right.
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Why?
Why use an 1910's era turret? You can salvage the guns from the IJA but I think all the turrets were scrapped. Either a new turret based on the Yamato or an enlarged 20cm turret.
 
Tzoli said:
Why use an 1910's era turret? You can salvage the guns from the IJA but I think all the turrets were scrapped.
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It's a tricky question, as I mentioned earlier, it's either that or enlarged 203mm. >
Martes said:
Or possibly change their design to extended 8"
Click to expand...

But if they went to salvage the guns (which is suggested by ambiguity of choice between 45 and 50-caliber)

Tzoli said:
2x3 30,5cm/45 Type 37 Cannons (alternatively 2x3 31cm/50)
Click to expand...

Japan 12"/45 (30.5 cm) Armstrong - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com www.navweaps.com

Japan 12"/50 (30.5 cm) Armstrong/Vickers - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com www.navweaps.com

Japan 31 cm/50 (12.2") Type 0 (?) - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com www.navweaps.com

then they were going to salvage the loading machinery, at least parts of that, and the easiest way was to build a turret around that machinery, i.e. use existing plans, but extending the turret from double to triple. Would they change the cover design to make it looking like an oversized cruiser turret? Possibly, but it's really a tossup.

310mm would suggest a completely new development, of course, and somewhat synchronized with the B-65, but that would require very serious stability checks.
 
It is not cleary but apparently all of Kawachi's armament rests within her wreckege. Settsu's guns were stored and the given to the army and a few were installed at coastal defences, the rest scrapped in around 1941. That is 8x /45 calibre and 4x /50 calibre barells plus reserves say one per turret or per two turrets so an extra 4-8x /45 and 2-4 /50 calibre ones for a total of 12-16 and 6-8 barells respectively. That is enough for 2-4 ships. Again why use the old loading mechanisms when you have new ones? I'm not sure if tge coastal batteries got only tge barrels or the loaders as well.
Remember the guns of Cleveland and Worcester are the same just the loading mechanisms are different.
 
The 45-calibres were also installed on other ships - Katori, Tsukuba, Kurama, Satsuma, etc, even Mikasa and the Russian prizes. It seems there were quite a lot of them.
The mention of them in the cruiser specification suggests it was intended to reuse those guns, probably precisely because of their availability. I have no idea, as well, whether the loading mechanisms were stored or used in coastal emplacements, but it only seems logical.
 

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