Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative

The Angry Astronaut is right

Since Starliner unmanned Test flight on 20 dec 2019
Has past over 14 Months and almost nothing happen at Boeing,
After some excuse like "Covid" or "Winter in Texas" and now "ISS is occupied by SpaceX we can't Launch"
Follow by Boeing demands for more Money to deal with 83 issue of Starliner

At this speed Boeing will overtake by SNC Dream Chaser unmanned Test-flight in 2022
and in this game the winner get contract...
 
Michel Van said:
At this speed Boeing will overtake by SNC Dream Chaser unmanned Test-flight in 2022
and in this game the winner get contract...
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SNC isn't competing for a Commercial Crew contract (they lost that one already in 2014). The current Dream Chaser effort is for Commercial Resupply-2, but it isn't going to be human-rated. It's going to launch inside a shroud, which means it CAN'T be man rated in the current configuration.
 
TomS said:
It's going to launch inside a shroud, which means it CAN'T be man rated in the current configuration.
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So it's mean they can build Manned version if NASA take them after Successful unmanned flights and Starliner still not ready...
 
Michel Van said:
TomS said:
It's going to launch inside a shroud, which means it CAN'T be man rated in the current configuration.
Click to expand...
So it's mean they can build Manned version if NASA take them after Successful unmanned flights and Starliner still not ready...
Click to expand...

Sorry, not sure I'm following.

Right now, the plan is for Dream Chaser to fly inside a 5-meter payload fairing on Vulcan (and maybe Ariane V at some point on the future). But that doesn't really set them up for a manned version. You can't launch a crewed vehicle inside a fairing because there are no viable escape options. So crewed Dream Chaser is a largely separate development.

SNC say they are committed to a crewed version but I don't see a customer right now. NASA has competed Commercial Crew already. Even of Starliner never works, they have the Dragon 2 crew version and that's all they really need to ensure a non-Russian route to ISS.

I don't see NASA finding money for another commercial crew vehicle while also trying to fund Artemis to the Moon, especially as ISS approaches it's likely end of life within the next decade or so.
 
TomS said:
Sorry, not sure I'm following.
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Original Dream Chaser had to be manned and plans for that are complete
Now they build unmanned version for Commercial Resupply-2 to launch in 2022
If Boeing mess up Starliner program by delay or another Failure during unmanned flight 2
While Dream Chaser Cargo make successful test flight

I think not that NASA stand there and pump more money in Starliner
they transfer the budget to SNC with demand build Manned rated version

payload fairing are not the problem
ESA study there manned Capsule to launch in side of Ariane 5 fairing
in case of launch failure the fairing are jettisoned and capsule pull away from Booster with launch escape system
same could goes for Dream Chaser by solid rocket engine, in fact that Orginal plan by SNC
 
I am not sure if a fairing ejection under high dynamic pressure and unforeseen load and attitude as should be expected during an emergency can be deemed safe or efficient.
Think at the external dyn pressure load on the huge fairing surface, the amount of separation means needed and all the weight and electrical glitches that would go with it. :rolleyes:
 
Michel Van said:
I think not that NASA stand there and pump more money in Starliner
they transfer the budget to SNC with demand build Manned rated versio
Click to expand...

In theory, yes, there is an unfunded extension of Commercial Crew that NASA could fund to restart Dream Chaser. But they're not going to do that. If Starliner is dropped, they won't have "free" money they can just reallocate to SNC. Instead, they'd have to go get new money from Congress, which seems pretty unlikely.


Michel Van said:

payload fairing are not the problem
ESA study there manned Capsule to launch in side of Ariane 5 fairing
in case of launch failure the fairing are jettisoned and capsule pull away from Booster with launch escape system
same could goes for Dream Chaser by solid rocket engine, in fact that Orginal plan by SNC
Click to expand...

SNC never proposed to fly a manned Dream Chaser inside a fairing, because NASA rules do not permit a crewed vehicle to launch inside an enclosed fairing. The crewed version of Dream Chaser was to fly exposed on top of an Atlas V.

Looking at the latest ESA crewed capsule (CSTS), the launch escape system is attached to a capsule cover, which would be pulled off with the capsule in the event of an abort. The two parts would only separate after the crew is clear of the launch vehicle. No problem; this is how Apollo worked, for example. But I can't find any example of putting a crewed capsule inside a separate, non-connected, fairing.
 
And I really like the way the Soviets made it on the Soyuz. So the crew seats in the middle module ? No problem ! Let the service module attached to the failing rocket; and have the escape system pulls the entire fairing with the two upward modules still attached inside; once the whole thing a safe distance away from the ground, let the crew module falls backwards, from the bottom of the fairing... since there is no service module nor exploding rocket below it ! then sprout the parachutes, fire the landing rockets, and voilà, crew saved.
 
www.spacedaily.com

SpaceX in orbit on route to ISS

Kennedy Space Center FL (AFP) Apr 23, 2021 - SpaceX launched its third crew to the International Space Station an hour before sunrise Friday, recycling a rocket and spacecraft for the first time.
www.spacedaily.com
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1413484917380501505
View: https://twitter.com/commercial_crew/status/1413484917380501505


Orbital Flight Test (OFT-2) Launch
️ Friday, July 30
⌚️ 2:53 p.m. ET

The uncrewed OFT-2 mission will test the end-to-end capabilities of @BoeingSpace's Starliner spacecraft and @ulalaunch's Atlas V rocket from launch to docking to a return to Earth: go.nasa.gov/2UAMQ2q
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1413548229128491008
View: https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1413548229128491008


The uniquely configured #AtlasV rocket is assembled following initial stacking operations for the launch of @BoeingSpace's CST-100 #Starliner spacecraft for the #OFT2 mission for the @Commercial_Crew program.

Read more: https://blog.ulalaunch.com/blog/oft-2-atlas-v-rocket-stacked-for-starliner-launch
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blog.ulalaunch.com

Atlas V Starliner OFT-2: By the Numbers

The United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V rocket will launch Boeing's CST-100 Starliner spacecraft on its second Orbital Flight Test (OFT-2) to the International Space Station for NASA's Commercial Crew Program. Here is a look at the launch by the numbers.
blog.ulalaunch.com blog.ulalaunch.com
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1420022310002733069
View: https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1420022310002733069


The ULA Launch Readiness Review (LRR) was completed today for the #AtlasV launch of @BoeingSpace’s #Starliner #OFT2 mission to the @Space_Station on Friday at 2:53 p.m. EDT (1853 UTC). Follow the mission in our countdown blog: bit.ly/av_oft-2 #LaunchAmerica
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1420067139822698498
View: https://twitter.com/nasa/status/1420067139822698498


LIVE NOW: Watch mission experts provide the latest update about our July 30 launch of @BoeingSpace’s Starliner spacecraft on a mission to the @Space_Station.
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View: https://youtu.be/21X5lGlDOfg
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1422437671297765407
View: https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1422437671297765407


The countdown has started for today's liftoff of the #AtlasV rocket and @BoeingSpace's #Starliner on #OFT2 to the @Space_Station. Launch time is 1:20pmEDT, and the live webcast will begin at 12:30pmEDT. Live blog now underway: bit.ly/av_oft-2
#LaunchAmerica
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1422450709933568001
View: https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1422450709933568001


The Atlas-Centaur rocket has been powered up for its launch of #Starliner later today. The flight computer is warming up now in preparation for guidance system testing and steering checks of the engine nozzles prior to cryogenic fueling. bit.ly/av_oft-2
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spacewatch.global

NASA to launch second Collaborations for Commercial Space Capabilities - SpaceWatch.Global

Edinburgh, 4 November 2022. - NASA is launching CCSC-2, its second Collaborations for Commercial Spa
spacewatch.global spacewatch.global
Edinburgh, 4 November 2022. – NASA is launching CCSC-2, its second Collaborations for Commercial Space Capabilities initiative to foster the development and growth of the American space industry, the agency said. Under the collaboration, NASA will share its expertise and capabilities to support US company innovations.

CCSC-2 continues to pursue the goals set in the US National Space Policy and NASA’s strategic plan, the agency said. The plan, in turn, will benefit human spaceflight and the country’s commercial low Earth orbit (LEO) economy. A robust LEO economy is expected to boost education and job growth in STEM areas. In addition, it will spur economic growth through the new space markets created in the process.

The program will allow for future business and government needs being met via unfunded Space Act Agreements (SAA). SAAs advance commercial space-related efforts by leveraging NASA’s technical expertise, assessments, information, technologies, and data. NASA released its Announcement for Proposals earlier this week, aiming to select one or more SAAs. The proposal deadline is 9th December.
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TheSpaceBucket has just put out a video about whether or not the Boeing CST-100 is ready for a crewed flight:


For over a decade now, the Boeing Starliner spacecraft has been under development, gone through testing, and performed two uncrewed orbital test flights. All of which in hopes of achieving certification from NASA to begin participating in consistent crewed missions. While the two past launches each had their own respective complications, both Boeing and NASA are confident that the spacecraft is now ready for humans.
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After both these past flights and especially the first, the agency and Boeing made significant changes to the spacecraft to ensure what went wrong never happened again. Even though they were very thorough, issues still arose on the second orbital flight. This brings up questions about exactly what was done to prepare Starliner for each mission.
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With the first crewed orbital flight test just months away, the safety and reliability of this system are of the utmost importance. Here I will go more in-depth into the changes made to Starliner, the issues NASA and Boeing are working to avoid, what to expect in the near future, and more.
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Full article here - https://thespacebucket.com/is-the-boe...
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