Columbia-class SSBN (SSBN-X Future Follow-on Submarine)

Desertfox said:
The Russians don't want us uploading any more than we want them, they will play ball until the treaty ends.
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The Russians have specifically stated they have withdrawn from all parts of New Start except the warhead limits. That said, the elephant in the room is the chinese, and what will happen there.

As for SSGN(X) - you definitely don't want to mix nuke subs + conventional weapon shooters, as boomers are your secure second strike. If the program picks up pace, I would expect congress to accelerate the last few ships in columbia class, and then finish out with a few conventional shooters, who have had some pricey bits removed.

The problem with modern over-optimized dod mega programs is that every ounce of slack and margin is removed - so whether we like it or not, the original plan will continue, or capabilities will get cut.
 
zevets said:
As for SSGN(X) - you definitely don't want to mix nuke subs + conventional weapon shooters, as boomers are your secure second strike. If the program picks up pace, I would expect congress to accelerate the last few ships in columbia class, and then finish out with a few conventional shooters, who have had some pricey bits removed.
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Exactly my thoughts.

Once EB and NNS get a couple of Columbia class built, they'll have ideas for how to simplify and speed up construction (see what happened to the Virginias), and will be able to speed up production. Then build ~6x SSGNs at either full Columbia size or slightly shortened so the conventional shooters can be identified from satellite. If the timing works out, the UK might have bought the first of the diver quadpacks.
 
How are the current Ohio based SSGNs different so they can be identified?
 
bobbymike said:
How are the current Ohio based SSGNs different so they can be identified?
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Externally they are not, unless they are carrying a dry deck shelter. Though I would argue if you are not physically in Kings Bay or Bangor that you are almost certainly looking at an SSGN.

There is no reason to make SSGNs visibly identifiable; physical inspections can confirm the nature of the platform in the unlikely event there is an new arms control treat.
 
bobbymike said:
How are the current Ohio based SSGNs different so they can be identified?
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The turtleback is wider where the DDS sit. The standard BN turtleback tapers up, the GN turtleback up forward goes straight up.

Here's a picture of USS Floridia SSGN without DDS, you can see where the turtleback is wider.
USS_Florida_%28SSGN-728%29.jpg

Also, note the lack of nonskid for a long stretch of the turtleback.
 
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TomS said:
I think it was done to keep the two DDS from overhanging the sides of the turtleback. You can really see it here:

View attachment 731654
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^^ That was the picture I was looking for and didn't find quickly, Tom, thank you!

And yes, it's more likely to have been done for making a place for the DDS to land square to the turtleback. Look at the line of nonskid and how it basically lines up on the inner rails for the DDS.

But it also makes a convenient "Look at this spot, it's different from the SSBNs" for the Compliance folks to look at. See also the Yankee Notch sub on the Russian side.

As a side note, that SSGN is sitting deep in the water by a couple of feet, you should be able to see the limber line clear of the water and a bit of pressure hull out of the water, not just the turtleback.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
Building the same very large objects, so similar layout is to be expected. Or they may have bit the bullet and bought the layout from HII if it was somehow proprietary.
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There's more than one way to skin a cat, while this new Austal building looks a lot like a larger take on HII's SMOF, HII also has a new module site at the JMAF on the north end of their NN yard which doesn't share the layout. I think this is more a case of the linear site leading them to a SMOF-like set of decisions.
 
So... new plants in Alabama and Florida producing materials and modules (so not nuc-certified work) - accesses new worker population bases and thus potentially frees nuc-certified workers to increase build rate.
 
BlackBat242 said:
So... new plants in Alabama and Florida producing materials and modules (so not nuc-certified work) - accesses new worker population bases and thus potentially frees nuc-certified workers to increase build rate.
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Not really, The biggest choke point hasn't widen.

The Number of Reactor made per year, both the core, pressure vessel and all the other bits of a ship reactor.

Which is like 3 per year and one of thoses are for the CVNs.

Basically like the old battleships, the big hold up on those was the Armor and turrets. Alot of the Time you had a BB Hull sitting work on for days cause they hit the point of need to install either of those to continue.

And they didn't arrive yet.


Same issue here. Apparently one of the yarda have two Virginias all but complete, waiting for their reactors to arrive.

To really increase the build ability we need to make more everything on the reactor, not just the technicians.

Or figure out how to make a modern diesel sub with 20k miles of range.
 
Firefinder said:
Not really, The biggest choke point hasn't widen.

The Number of Reactor made per year, both the core, pressure vessel and all the other bits of a ship reactor.

Which is like 3 per year and one of thoses are for the CVNs.

Basically like the old battleships, the big hold up on those was the Armor and turrets. Alot of the Time you had a BB Hull sitting work on for days cause they hit the point of need to install either of those to continue.

And they didn't arrive yet.


Same issue here. Apparently one of the yarda have two Virginias all but complete, waiting for their reactors to arrive.

To really increase the build ability we need to make more everything on the reactor, not just the technicians.

Or figure out how to make a modern diesel sub with 20k miles of range.
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Ah, that IS an issue.
 
Virginias increased in cost by 20% over the last 3 years on top of a 20% increase in shipyard staff costs, ouch. Also the federal government directly allocating $518m funds for a wage rise at two private business seems a bit odd, normally you would just negotiate an increase in the price you were paying for the work, which they are already doing in this allocation.
 
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WatcherZero said:
Virginias increased in cost by 20% over the last 3 years on top of a 20% increase in shipyard staff costs, ouch. Also the federal government directly allocating $518m funds for a wage rise at two private business seems a bit odd, normally you would just negotiate an increase in the price you were paying for the work, which they are already doing in this allocation.
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I believe that is to allow the shipyard to offer a competitive wage to the highly skilled welders that they need, to draw them away from the petroleum industry.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Unusual for an SSBN to be named for a city.
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Well Columbia implied that, it is name for the District OF Columbia which is a city.

Also the Navy hasnt had a proper naming scheme since the 1950s, it is on half what ever pleases the Critters to get budget and another half of what the dart lands on today.
 
Use fish names again. Oh wait, all of the cool ones have been taken. USS Spiny Lumpsucker isn't going to work...
 
Scott Kenny said:
Unusual for an SSBN to be named for a city.
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Its the home city of General Dynamics Electric Boat, a Los Angeles class previously used the name until 1997.
The lead one was supposed to be named for Columbia the City rather than Columbia District but the name was still in use.
The second was named Wisconsin because of lobbying by the two senators from Wisconsin that passed a resolution forcing the name.
 
The Virginia class has helped use up most state names that were not in use by the Ohio class... not much choice but to use different names.
 
BlackBat242 said:
The Virginia class has helped use up most state names that were not in use by the Ohio class... not much choice but to use different names.
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Fair point.

I did kinda wonder why the Virginia class got state names instead of cities (like the US historically used for cruisers).
 
The 62 LA class SSNs used up 61* of the biggest cities in the US - not many left for the number of boats planned in the Virginia class.

Yes, they could have re-used cities, especially those of boats retired early in the Virginia build schedule, but someone "had a better idea". However, the last 13 Virginias ordered were named for cities (8), fish (4), and one person.

The current planned size of the Virginia class is 66 boats - only 24 have been built to date (plus 10 more building and 4 ordered).


* The class actually had 62 boats - the 22nd, SSN-709, was named for Adm. Hyman G. Rickover (it was planned to be named Providence, and SSN-719 received that name instead). SSN-795 Hyman G. Rickover has perpetuated Adm. Rickover's name in the submarine community.
 
BlackBat242 said:
The 62 LA class SSNs used up 61* of the biggest cities in the US - not many left for the number of boats planned in the Virginia class.

Yes, they could have re-used cities, especially those of boats retired early in the Virginia build schedule, but someone "had a better idea". However, the last 13 Virginias ordered were named for cities (8), fish (4), and one person.

The current planned size of the Virginia class is 66 boats - only 24 have been built to date (plus 10 more building and 4 ordered).


* The class actually had 62 boats - the 22nd, SSN-709, was named for Adm. Hyman G. Rickover (it was planned to be named Providence, and SSN-719 received that name instead). SSN-795 Hyman G. Rickover has perpetuated Adm. Rickover's name in the submarine community.
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The 4 Fish are the legendary boats from WW2, commanded by men who won the Medal of Honor for how much shipping they sank. Remember, before the 688s, subs were named for fish.
 
Scott Kenny said:
The 4 Fish are the legendary boats from WW2, commanded by men who won the Medal of Honor for how much shipping they sank. Remember, before the 688s, subs were named for fish.
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Silversides SS-236 never won a MOH - her first captain, Creed Burlingame (1st-5th patrols) won 3 Navy Crosses, and her second captain, John S. "Jack" Coye, Jr. (6th - 11th patrols), won 1 NC.
Silversides' 12th-14th patrols saw only 2 ships sunk combined.

Silversides SSN-679 seems to have done nothing out of the ordinary for a SSN - that is, nothing that is unclassified/declassified. ;)
 
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