Clément Ader’s Avion III

[steelpillow]

Do we know at what height the Wright Flier flew the first time ?

In fact, they reached a negative altitude, given that they started from a hilltop and went down the slope.
That first time, they basically managed to go down less steeply than the hillside.

So, that first accomplishment was in fact more a "controlled fall" than a "take off". They did better than Æthelmær and all the other blokes who jumped from a tower or cliff, yes, but they still basically finished off lower than where they started from. That's the extent of the great achievement on that day.
But hey, with enough blind nationalism, the narrative can be changed into what they believe today.


Smart alec mode: OFF
Don't start the transatlantic nuclear war yet, I was just having some fun. Can you bear some good-natured chain-yanking?
My only point is that there are usually more than one way to look at things, and that insisting on "no, mine is the only truth" is not the only option.

The joke falls a bit flat when you realise it is factually wrong, a classic fake news item. You are describing the acknowledged abortive attempts of 14 December, see for example https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/first-flight where the Smithsonisan's bulldog Tom Crouch roars forth on his home turf. He adds (my bold):

"On December 17, on the other hand, Orville took off from the sand flats near their camp and flew into a headwind gusting from 24 to 27 miles per hour. The speed of the machine over the ground was perhaps eight miles per hour, so low that Wilbur, as seen in the famous photograph, had no trouble keeping up. This time, while the distance over the ground was only 120 feet, the true distance flown through the air into that headwind was calculated at 540 feet, well beyond the 300 feet the brothers had decided would constitute a sustained flight. Each of the four flights that the brothers made that morning was longer than the one before, culminating in Wilbur’s final effort just before noon, in which he flew 852 feet over the sand in 59 seconds"​

There, I hope I have both attacked and defended that venerable institution enough in this thread to demonstrate impartiality - something I would like to see more of in discussions of Ader and early flights.

 

[dan_inbox]

You are correct. That was for the Dec 14 first attempt down the rail, when it "flew" for 3.5 seconds.

 

[Archibald]

ah, the evil Wright brothers. THEY WEREN'T THE FIRST TO FLY WHITEHEAD DID IT BEFORE THEM.

Well, I might believe that was relevant here if anybody had been saying that. Rather, it is an inescapable part of a Secret Projects remit to re-examine such controversies and their relevance to similar ones; please do not be too dismayed if we do so from time to time.

Stop quoting part of my posts out of context. Plus humour and "second degré" seem alien to you... does "tongue in cheek" rings a bell ?

 

[steelpillow]

ah, the evil Wright brothers. THEY WEREN'T THE FIRST TO FLY WHITEHEAD DID IT BEFORE THEM.

Well, I might believe that was relevant here if anybody had been saying that. Rather, it is an inescapable part of a Secret Projects remit to re-examine such controversies and their relevance to similar ones; please do not be too dismayed if we do so from time to time.

Stop quoting part of my posts out of context. Plus humour and "second degré" seem alien to you... does "tongue in cheek" rings a bell ?

My apologies, but was your remark not out of context in the first place? Am I to be forbidden what you are allowed?
Also, you may or may not be aware that written communications such as Internet fora often mask the finer subtleties, obvious in face-to-face conversation, and people are far more likely to take offence where none was intended, typically to interpret harmless humour as veiled insult and/or as misguided argument. I saw your kind of humour, saw its deliberate barbs, and felt that for other readers' benefit some balancing comment would be appropriate. But perhaps my kind of twisted humour is deeper than yours, my being a native English-speaker and you not (I think you said). Let us both apologise and stop playing with fire.

 

[galgot]

ah, the evil Wright brothers. THEY WEREN'T THE FIRST TO FLY WHITEHEAD DID IT BEFORE THEM.

Well, I might believe that was relevant here if anybody had been saying that. Rather, it is an inescapable part of a Secret Projects remit to re-examine such controversies and their relevance to similar ones; please do not be too dismayed if we do so from time to time.

Stop quoting part of my posts out of context. Plus humour and "second degré" seem alien to you... does "tongue in cheek" rings a bell ?

My apologies, but was your remark not out of context in the first place? Am I to be forbidden what you are allowed?
Also, you may or may not be aware that written communications such as Internet fora often mask the finer subtleties, obvious in face-to-face conversation, and people are far more likely to take offence where none was intended, typically to interpret harmless humour as veiled insult and/or as misguided argument. I saw your kind of humour, saw its deliberate barbs, and felt that for other readers' benefit some balancing comment would be appropriate. But perhaps my kind of twisted humour is deeper than yours, my being a native English-speaker and you not (I think you said). Let us both apologise and stop playing with fire.

@steelpillow - I think you are experiencing the difficulty of a dialogue with 2 (or more ...) frogs (me included) at the same time, and mixing the croaks. No worry, even between us frogs, it can be extremely difficult…

To all : THIS IS HUMOUR.

 

[TomcatViP]

Do we really need to read all this? The thread introduction (@nuuumannn ,thank you) was top-notch quality and then this...

 

[steelpillow]

La grenouille et le rosbief, hein? Je ne suis pas bouilli avec de la sauce au menthe (comme les Bretons d'Asterix et Obélix)! C'est vrai que j'oublie quelquefois mon vrai nom, mais votre compatriote semblait un peu malheureux, c'est tout.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Fine art by Vicente Segrelles

 

[Jemiba]

As the last posts didn't really deal with Ader's Avion III, I've moved them to an own topic here
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/firsts-in-the-history-of-aviation.34387/
Feel free to come up with a better title.

 

[Justo Miranda]

1/72 model here
https://www.britmodeller.com/forums...ion-iii-dr-design-multimedia-172nd-scale-kit/

dR design Clement Ader Avion III - 1/72 photoetched/resin

-This is the building article, the completed model can be seen here: http://wingsofintent.blogspot.com/2014/02/dr-design-clement-ader-avion...

wingsofintent.blogspot.com

 

[Richard N]

 

[Richard N]

 

[galgot]

Oh wow, This from Daniel Costelle’s « histoire de l’Aviation » series of documentaries. First release on French TV about 30 years ago. Loved it. Une Madeleine de Pr... Ader.