Civilian versions of bomber aircraft

[hesham]

Model of Tupolev Tu-134 supersonic transport (SST).

NOTE: Although seller claims that model is authentic and accurate, the reader should be aware that the authenticity and accuracy of this model is in question. It may have been manufactured by another party without license.

Source: http://www.ussr-airspace.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28_39_38_100&products_id=2485

By the way,

there is anther version of Tu-134 SST Project,but fitted with four VD-19R2 engines.

http://testpilot.ru/russia/tupolev/134/134.htm

 

[RAP]

Thought I'd seen something on the forum about a civilian B26 but could not find it. Hope this is not a double post, if so remove.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Here's a few civil conversions of the A-26/B-26 for your perusal. I know I have one of the Volitan conversion - has something of a pregnant belly look to it. Will look for that and post it.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[elmayerle]

It's not exactly a secret, but let us not forget that the Learjet 23 used the aerodynamic surfaces and tip tanks of the Swiss P-16 strike fighter. It made for a very strong wing on the Learjet.

 

[NUSNA_Moebius]

Were there ever any A-26s or B-26s converted to turboprop? Seems like it would be a match made in heaven.

 

[Motocar]

Two projects Conavir passenger aircraft that give rise to civilian versions, neither was built beyond the proposal the F-106, in one case and in the other case the Astrojet, starting from a B-58 that was something more serious. The F-106 was a proposal to create an executive Jet SST after the conversion of a fighter that eliminated the weapons hold and took advantage to install a pressurized cabin to carry passengers, while the Astrojet was a medium SST plane with J58 engines in its civil version and should have benefits not negligible.

Both models are the product of speculative tweaks made by Motocar

 

[Motocar]

A small US firm Jet Craft 2 Executive also proposed converting old deHavilland Vampire trainers into executive jet planes, built one as a mockup to prove its feasibility, years later languished in a Las Vegas airport, modified by Motocar to recreate that proposal

 

[Zeppelin]

A detail that has intrigued me for years, why did the T104 have a "bomb aimers" position?

I always assumed the Soviet commercial craft kept the glass nose so in any emergency, they would always have a ready stock to requisition back for any military use?

 

[Arjen]

Those were navigator's stations. An 22 has one, Il 76 has one. Imagine using those as bombers - impractical doesn't begin to describe that idea. Transports can be requisitioned for military use, but even Western military transports have done without glass noses since forever.

 

[riggerrob]

Were there ever any A-26s or B-26s converted to turboprop? Seems like it would be a match made in heaven.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

No.
They might have contemplated converting A-26 to turboprops, but no prototype ever flew. Basically, A-26 were fading from service about the same time decent turboprop engines arrived on the market. Up until 1970, military-surplus radial engines were still cheaper than turboprops. By the time decent turboprop engines came available - during the 1960s - the youngest A-26 airframe was 20 years old. A few A-26 refurbishment contracts were abandoned when they discovered corrosion.

The only WW2-vintage airplanes that were converted to turboprop - in significant numbers - were DC-3/C-47 transports. One project used RR Dart engines, another used a trio of Pratt&Whitney PT6A engines, but the only conversion still available is done by Basler. When a DC-3 arrives at the Basler shop in Oshkosh, it is gutted, overhauled, the forward fuselage extended (for balance) and a pair of PT6A engines installed.

A few Beech 18, C-45 and AT-11 light twins were re-engined with turboprops, most notably by Westwind (P&WC) and Volpar (Garret AirResearch). Most of those converted airframes were produced after WW2. I have a hundred jumps from a Westwind Beech and hundreds more from piston-pounding Beech 18s. Thankfully, Beech 18s have retired from the skydiving scene. Hardly any still haul freight or passengers.

 

[riggerrob]

Here's a few civil conversions of the A-26/B-26 for your perusal. I know I have one of the Volitan conversion - has something of a pregnant belly look to it. Will look for that and post it.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

---------------------------------------------------------------

Those Volitan conversions look a lot like On Mark conversions.
On Mark conversions were mainly for executive transport ... up to a dozen executives. The first On Mark modification was a steel ring spar that allowed passengers to walk from the aft cabin to the cockpit. They also allowed the bomb bay to carry passengers in comfort.
On Mark installed pressurized cabins in a few A-26.
On Mark also re-militarized a batch of A-26s for the Republic of South Viet Nam Air Force ..... except that they were flown by USAF pilots. On Mark Invaders had solid noses, tip tanks and rocket rails under the outer wings. On Mark Invaders flew similar ground-attack missions to AD-1 Skyraiders and T-28D Trojans. Pistons were preferred for their longer loiter time and better manuverability in VN mountains.

 

[Deltafan]

Convair project passenger aircraft that give rise to civilian version, (...) the Astrojet, starting from a B-58 that was something more serious. (...) the Astrojet was a medium SST plane with J58 engines in its civil version and should have benefits not negligible.

model is the product of speculative tweaks made by Motocar

Thanks Motocar.

I allways liked this project from the B-58. It would have been a perfect civilian jet for a science fiction movie or comic

 

[Michel Van]

Convair project passenger aircraft that give rise to civilian version, (...) the Astrojet, starting from a B-58 that was something more serious. (...) the Astrojet was a medium SST plane with J58 engines in its civil version and should have benefits not negligible.

model is the product of speculative tweaks made by Motocar

Thanks Motocar.

I allways liked this project from the B-58. It would have been a perfect civilian jet for a science fiction movie or comic

Or for Alternate History stories, it's a Goldmine !

my take on F-106 SST and question were sit the Stewardess ?

From
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14214.msg140541.html#msg140541

 

[Deltafan]

Excellent ! ;D

For those who don't know this postwar civilian flying body (derivative of Belgian striking-looking models) :

https://www.bedetheque.com/albums-204-BD-Natacha.html

 

[RAP]

Another article on civil B26.

 

[taildragger]

I allways liked this project from the B-58. It would have been a perfect civilian jet for a science fiction movie or comic
[/quote]

I've always wondered about the purpose of the stylish fins attached to the wingtip-mounted engines on some of the B-58 airliner concepts. It seems like they would complicate and impose loads on the nacelle structure, but why?
They seem too close to the longitudinal centerline to add significant stability and predated (I think) the science on winglets. I wouldn't think that two symmetrical fins would be an effective winglet arrangement and I don't think I've ever seen any sort of winglet on a supersonic aircraft. OK, maybe the folding wingtips on the B-70 were a sort of winglet, but I think that their purpose was to interact with shockwaves not to increase the effective aspect ratio. Maybe they create some sort of dihedral of anhedral effect.
Or, since these were just concept drawings, maybe they were added as a cosmetic touch - they do look good.
Any insights?

 

[Arjen]

The Ye-155-R1 (MiG-25 prototype) didn't have outboard engines, but on its wingtips it had some strange appendages as well:

 

[Cy-27]

The Ilyushin Il-28 was adapted for mail plane use by Aeroflot as the IL-20 or IL-28P (Pochtovy / Mail). A few Il-28s were civilianised and the Aeroflot crews found them easy to fly. Conversion for Aeroflot crews started in October 1953 and the mail services began in 1954. The type carried Pravda and Izvestiya publications from Moscow to Irkutsk. One of the Il-28P carried a civil style colour scheme with red cheatline, blue pinstripe as well as Aeroflot logos and titles (cn 54006104). I know there is a photo of the Aeroflot liveried nose of construction number 54006104 in the book Ilyushin Il-28 Beagle (Airlife) by Yefim Gordon and Dmitri Komissarov.

A similar mail service was operated by the Tu-104G which was a demilitarised Tu-16. Both types helped the basic jet training of the airline crews before the advent of the Tu-104.

 

[Deltafan]

[quote author=Deltafan]
I allways liked this project from the B-58. It would have been a perfect civilian jet for a science fiction movie or comic

I've always wondered about the purpose of the stylish fins attached to the wingtip-mounted engines on some of the B-58 airliner concepts. It seems like they would complicate and impose loads on the nacelle structure, but why?
They seem too close to the longitudinal centerline to add significant stability and predated (I think) the science on winglets. I wouldn't think that two symmetrical fins would be an effective winglet arrangement and I don't think I've never seen any sort of winglet on a supersonic aircraft. OK, maybe the folding wingtips on the B-70 were a sort of winglet, but I think that their purpose was to interact with shockwaves not to increase the effective aspect ratio. Maybe they create some sort of dihedral of anhedral effect.
Or, since these were just concept drawings, maybe they were added as a cosmetic touch - they do look good.
Any insights?
[/quote]
I remember (there are maybe other that I don't know or don't remember) only the Russian Myasischev M-50 and the French SNCASO Trident as supersonic jets with wingtip-mounted engines (the Tsybin NM-1 was a subsonic model for the never flown Tsybin RSR).
For the "stylish fins", I can only said that in my book on the B-58 (Convair B-58, Jay Miller, Aerofax Inc/Midland) it's wrote that the nacelle-mounted winglets, for the transport passengers (Mach 2.5) 58-9 project, were for "improved directional stability".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myasishchev_M-50

 

[famvburg]

There was a proposed turbo prop civil A-26, I believe by On-Mark. The excellent Crowood book on the A-26 has a bit of info and a drawing.

 

[famvburg]

A bit of trivia. A-26 N6840D was owned and operated by a company in my town in the 1960s, possibly as photographed here. It has been restored as a Korean War B-26 and can be seen on the airshow circuit as The Spirit of North Carolina.

 

[RAP]

Aviation Week drawing from 1957 of BB-152.

 

[MaxLegroom]

Weren't the Boeing 307 and 377 both built using the wings, vertical and horizontal stabilizers of bombers (B-17 and B-50 respectively)? Did I miss someone mentioning this?

 

[famvburg]

The original 377 used B-29 wings, engines and tail. So did the Tu-70.

 

[lark]

Is the someone who ever have seen an illustration,or who haves more info of
the civil transport version of the Short Sperrin ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[lastdingo]

An ancient thread was dug out. Let's thus mention that the He 111 was also built and intended as fast passenger and postal aircraft. It was less economical than Ju 52/3m (and less safe), though.

There are plenty photos of He 111C on the web, so I won#t post any here. You should look at them, it was probably the best-looking passenger aircraft of the 30's (despite the Condor)!

 

[sienar]

The 111 was designed as a passenger plane like how the 109 was designed as a fast mail carrier.

 

[archipeppe]

The 111 was designed as a passenger plane like how the 109 was designed as a fast mail carrier.

Please do not forget the famous Dornier Do-17 airliner..... ;D

 

[Artie Bob]

In the early 1950s, I was a line boy at one of the two major airports in Louisville, Ky. During the week before the Kentucky Derby, it seemed like every executive aircraft in the USA flew in (surely an exaggeration)! I remember executive conversions of B-23, -24,-25 and even a Martin B-28 with a large oval window in the aft fuselage. there were several Douglas B-26s (aka A-26), but IIRC, the most common executive conversions were Lockheed Venturas.

Best Regards,

Artie Bob

 

[fightingirish]

In 1954-55, the Myasischev OKB designed M-29 - an airliner version of well-known M-4 Bison strategic bomber:
http://avicopress.ru/plane.php?id=169
The M-29 was designed also in military transport version, but both were unbuilt.

Link: https://raigap.livejournal.com/531733.html
I will not attach the pictures because of the copyright and forum rules.

 

[elmayerle]

Okay, it's not a transport, but AiResearch in Phoenix used an A-26 with mounts in the nose for various TPE331 engines as a testbed for a fair while.

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://twitter.com/northropgrumman/status/1088859048651513856

Could it be time for commercial tailless flying wings? A cutaway illustration shows the interior of a proposed flying wing commercial airliner developed by Northrop in 1951 from the commercial passenger variant of the YB-49/YB-35 flying wings. #NorthropGrumman #FlyingWingFriday

 

[ucon]

Aviation Week drawing from 1957 of BB-152.

Rare booklets of Baade 152 with nice cutaway drawings inside

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

I found some artwork, photos and drawings of the Avro Atlantic, an airliner that was to be developed from the Avro Vulcan.

I'm hoping to find some more on the Vickers VC.7/V.1000 and the Handley Page HP.97 and HP.111

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Some articles, models and artwork for the Handley Page HP.97, based of off the HP.80 Victor bomber, in service with the RAF at the time.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Next comes the HP.111 military transport aircraft, which spawned numerous others variants, including passenger variants and an STOL variant with blown flaps. It too, was based off of the Victor. The HP.111 could also trace its roots back to the HP.96, a previous concept which was tendered alongside the Avro 722 (Atlantic) and Vickers VC.7/V.1000 for a jet transport for the RAF.

Go here for further information: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/handley-page-hp-111.10388/

More information could be found about both the HP.96 and the HP.111 from Chris Gibson's book "On Atlas' Shoulders".

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Finally, we have the Vickers VC.7/V.1000. The VC.7 was a passenger derivative of the V.1000, a transport aircraft tendered to an RAF requirement. The later variants of the V.1000 featured a moveable crane on the inside and a cargo door and can be distinguished from the passenger variants and other earlier variants by having a small hump over the rear of the fuselage, as certain pieces of hardware had to be moved into this hump due to the crane.

For further information visit: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/vickers-vc-7-and-v-1000.1067/

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

All previously mentioned projects are described in Chris Gibson's book "On Atlas' Shoulders".

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

The 111 was designed as a passenger plane like how the 109 was designed as a fast mail carrier.

Please do not forget the famous Dornier Do-17 airliner..... ;D

Do you mean this?

 

[nuuumannn]

Let's thus mention that the He 111 was also built and intended as fast passenger and postal aircraft.

Hm, but intended as a fast bomber. Just as an aside, (I originally posted this on another forum I frequent) out of interest on the He 111, while it did become a most successful bomber, it's conversion was somewhat quirky. The first time I got to look at an He 111 close up, including getting on board it, I marvelled at how small it was. Clambering around inside, it is very apparent that it began life, not as a bomber, but as a transport, even if it was eventually supposed to be one.

The bomb bay doors are rubber and flop open by a lever, the bombs tumbling out tail first, and sometimes striking the doors on the way out since they aren't rigid, then the doors snap shut by the use of springs actuated by the same lever. The bomb racks inside the fuselage look like they were made out of tool shed metal shelving, the defensive armament positions look like they were plonked in place because no one had thought of these things beforehand.

The cockpit area is confined and cramped, with gauges scattered about the place seemingly at random because of the lack of a conventional instrument panel, but gives an illusory sense of space because of all that glazing. But then, when you taxi you have this weird thing where you slide the hood above your head rearward and wind your seat up so you can stick your head outside to see where you are going! It's just a bit of a botch job of an aircraft. Don't get me wrong, the He 111 was one of the great all time WW2 aeroplanes, but it doesn't convey the air of a bomber like, say the Wellington, which in person looks and feels like a bomber should. It's got a flight deck, a long purposeful looking bomb bay, gun turrets at each end and a proper bomb aimer's area; the latter not sharing a cramped goldfish bowl with the pilot.

The RAF Museum's He 111 is sagging at the knees somewhat.