Civilian nuclear power and renewables and other power options

T. A. Gardner said:


My view on energy is that the only viable solution to eliminating CO2, if that's what you want to do, is nuclear. Nothing else is going to work without destroying the world's economy and standard of living. Solar and wind are intermittent generators and do nothing but get in the way and destabilize the grid while grossly increasing the cost of electricity. They are worthless and should be dumped in favor of more nuclear.
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That is your view but it is disagreed with by many including many experts in the field. The economics here are also highly subjective. As for comments such as "destroying the world's economy and standard of living", please enough with the hyperbole.
 
Is it wise to allow a thread to just repeat the usual dispute between certain positions?
How does this debate the science and technology of various power production systems?

All this is, is a descent to religious views.
 
GTX said:
T. A. Gardner said:


My view on energy is that the only viable solution to eliminating CO2, if that's what you want to do, is nuclear. Nothing else is going to work without destroying the world's economy and standard of living. Solar and wind are intermittent generators and do nothing but get in the way and destabilize the grid while grossly increasing the cost of electricity. They are worthless and should be dumped in favor of more nuclear.
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That is your view but it is disagreed with by many including many experts in the field. The economics here are also highly subjective. As for comments such as "destroying the world's economy and standard of living", please enough with the hyperbole.
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Yea, experts... I judge experts on results, not credentials.

Getting back to something closer to the board... I had fairly--brisk--exchange with the author of this book. He's a PhD at Loyola University.

s-l300.jpg


Anyway, his defense to most of what I tossed at him was, I have a PhD, you don't so shut up! Typical academic full of himself but not credible based on output and results.
 
FWIW, the ruddy Victorians figured their coal-fired CO2 would cause temperatures to rise. But, they did not anticipate a zillion oil-wells, gas flaring etc etc...

The Hawaiian CO2 record brooks no doubt.
Question is how much more heat will go into deep ocean, how much will stay at surface to super-charge weather extremes...

( Forest fires in Canada in May ?? You cannot be serious... )

I'm safely situate on a UK sandstone ridge with the reassuring Medieval dry-foot suffix ' On The Hill'. But, I've several sets of cousins on the lower land, formerly fens and marshes, behind a 'soft' coast that can lose several metres to each 'king tide' or full gale...
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Oh, the old Appeal to Authority ploy. Doesn't matter. Their predictions have been rubbish.
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That is not the case. It is quite reasonable to ask for qualifications so as to allow readers to have full context and thus to make judgements as to the appropriate weight to place on the opposing views. For instance, one would normally allocate more weight to an opinion that is backed by many years of study, research and someone who has made a particular subject part of their entire their career verses someone with just an opinion.
 
GTX said:
T. A. Gardner said:
Oh, the old Appeal to Authority ploy. Doesn't matter. Their predictions have been rubbish.
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That is not the case. It is quite reasonable to ask for qualifications so as to allow readers to have full context and thus to make judgements as to the appropriate weight to place on the opposing views. For instance, one would normally allocate more weight to an opinion that is backed by many years of study, research and someone who has made a particular subject part of their entire their career verses someone with just an opinion.
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A more charitable view (if we be minded to be charitable) is that the level of education informs best how one might describe the matter.
A true educator would want to know how to shape their arguments best to the level of the one they speak to so that this person might understand.

But appeals to authority, imply something else.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Arjen said:
T. A. Gardner said:
This assumes that you accept Gorebal Warming as presented by mostly the Left.
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Some light reading from the IPCC on climate change:

Reports — IPCC

www.ipcc.ch www.ipcc.ch
The IPCC carries some weight in the meteorological community.
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I've read their reports. Their predictions, based on actual results, are rubbish. I could be better guesses from a psychic.
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In some circles, the Dutch have a reputation of being penny-pinching misers.

The Dutch government takes the IPCC's reports so seriously that it is investing billions in specific coastal defence measures - heightened dikes, flood barriers in rivers - to mitigate one effect of climate change: rising sea levels. Additionally, billions are being invested in water management to compensate for months long dry stretches alternated by periods of heavy rain - climate change as predicted by KNMI, the Dutch government's meteorological institute, entirely in line with the IPCC's reports.

Please enlighten me *why* you think KNMI and IPCC are talking 'rubbish'.
My penny-pinching compatriots would like to know.
 
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Hang on Arjen, the North Sea is sinking since the billions of tons of water came back.
By contrast Scotland and Scandinavia are rising since the billions of tons of ice went away.
 
Rising sea levels caused by melting ice caps are an immediate concern for the Netherlands. Hence the extra money for dikes and barriers.
 
UK's post-glacial isostasis hinge-line runs WSW/ENE through my location. We have neither Scotland's benefit of 'primary' up-lift nor S/SE/SW UK's worry about sinking due 'secondary' effects. Uh, how many metres are London's 'Roman Stuff' now below current bench-mark ??

FWIW, my location close to hinge line means a lot of local strata are 'mildly' fractured, enough to provide umpteen mild quakes when lubricated by hapless gas-fracking attempts. Same fractures previously put an end to local collieries....

Fortunately, we do not face wide-spread subsidence due to water or gas extraction. Some areas have collapsing coal or salt mines, but they're 'localised'....

So, here is not affected by isostasis, we just have to worry about sea level rising.
As we already have BIG tides (4m Neap ~~ 10m Spring) plus Atlantic gales driving BIG waves with lonnng 'fetch' and serious 'surge', plus a lot of soft coasts that are little more than glacial moraine, we're a tad sensitive about thermal expansion and those melting ice-caps...
 
Nik said:
UK's post-glacial isostasis hinge-line runs WSW/ENE through my location. We have neither Scotland's benefit of 'primary' up-lift nor S/SE/SW UK's worry about sinking due 'secondary' effects. Uh, how many metres are London's 'Roman Stuff' now below current bench-mark ??

FWIW, my location close to hinge line means a lot of local strata are 'mildly' fractured, enough to provide umpteen mild quakes when lubricated by hapless gas-fracking attempts. Same fractures previously put an end to local collieries....

Fortunately, we do not face wide-spread subsidence due to water or gas extraction. Some areas have collapsing coal or salt mines, but they're 'localised'....

So, here is not affected by isostasis, we just have to worry about sea level rising.
As we already have BIG tides (4m Neap ~~ 10m Spring) plus Atlantic gales driving BIG waves with lonnng 'fetch' and serious 'surge', plus a lot of soft coasts that are little more than glacial moraine, we're a tad sensitive about thermal expansion and those melting ice-caps...
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Don't worry about sea ice melting , worry about ice on land melting.
Greenland, not the Arctic matters more in the North and Antarctica in the South.

But never forget as your nails grow, so do we move. Away from America.
 
Nik said:
IIRC, Australia's BIG 'pumped storage' scheme is running several years behind schedule.

Covid, Covid, Covid, then TBM nosed into 'very bad ground', the foul fill of of a big, unsuspected sink-hole.
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Apropos of nothing much, here's a follow up to Nik's post re the Snowy 2.0 pumped hydro project in Australia. I thought this was a pretty damn good idea when it was first proposed and then put into action. Unfortunately...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654292594615271425
View: https://twitter.com/QuentinDempster/status/1654292594615271425?t=lud9ilPI7-61HxyNKtHEqw&s=19
 

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