Chinese spy balloon floating over the US

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Orionblamblam said:
If a supersonic fighter can get up to the same altitude as a balloon, you have to wonder if it would be just as effective so simply fly by the balloon real fast and let the shockwave tear the envelope apart. Then you at least don't have bullets raining down on your own territory.
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You realize that there is a probability of collision in such dangerous maneuver on extreme altitude?
 
jeffb said:
it doesn’t look very sophisticated at all.
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That brings to mind that man-carrying balloon flight goes back to the 1700s, in a balloon having an envelope of cotton laminated with paper and which used hot air for lifting power.

In 1783,
"The ladder up to the basket was now ready for the first human feet. And so, in front of the Dauphin at Château de La Muette on 21 November, Pilâtre de Rozier became the first man ever to be borne aloft. A new page had been written in the history of mankind."
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en.chateauversailles.fr

The first hot air balloon flight

The first 'aerostatic' flight in history was an experiment carried out by the Montgolfier brothers at Versailles in 1783. At long last, man could leave the surface of the earth below.
en.chateauversailles.fr en.chateauversailles.fr

And then ...

"On December 1, 1783, just ten days after the first hot air balloon ride, the first gas balloon was launched by physicist Jacques Alexander Charles and Nicholas Louis Robert. This flight too started in Paris, France. The flight lasted 2½ hours and covered a distance of 25 miles. The gas used in the balloon was hydrogen, a lighter than air gas that had been developed by an Englishman, Henry Cavendish in 1776, by using a combination of sulphuric acid and iron filings."
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History Of Ballooning | National Balloon Museum

www.nationalballoonmuseum.com www.nationalballoonmuseum.com
 
Hit the gondola rather than the envelope, interesting.
 
Apparently it had been tracked since January 28th before it even crossed into Alaskan airspace.
 
Wonder if any of the instrument package is recoverable?
 
ah ha seems that the USS Carter Hall was moving into position off the Coast of the Carolinas to assist with Recovery Operations.
 
www.airandspaceforces.com

Chinese Surveillance Balloon Shot Down By F-22 After Crossing the US | Air & Space Forces Magazine

On Feb. 4, an Air Force F-22 from Joint Base Langley-Eustis shot down a Chinese surveillance balloon that crossed the U.S.
www.airandspaceforces.com www.airandspaceforces.com

"The U.S. Air Force successfully shot down a Chinese spy balloon off the coast of South Carolina on Feb. 4, ending days of uproar, speculation, and confusion. At 2:39 pm Eastern time, an F-22 Raptor from the 1st Fighter Wing at Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Va. fired one AIM-9X Sidewinder into the approximately 90-foot wide balloon, causing it to fall towards the Atlantic Ocean, according to senior U.S. defense and military officials"

"F-15s from Barnes Air National Guard Base, Mass., well as well as multiple tankers assisted in the effort, according to the Pentagon. In a briefing to reporters, U.S. defense and military officials said an F-22 fired the Sidewinder from 58,000 feet, hitting the balloon operating at around 60,000 to 65,000 feet. It is the first known air-to-air takedown for an F-22."
 
Not sure if that comment was directed at me or not @sferrin

Another moderator locked the topic, not me. Users simply kept posting on the topic in new or alternate topics. I tried to stop this.
It is simply not correct behaviour - if a topic is locked by a moderator it is intended to temporarily (or permanently) pause a discussion, either to calm down a volatile situation or to allow time for the topic to be cleaned up of bad posts. Carrying on the discussion after it was locked is simply poor self-control.
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
Users simply kept posting on the topic in new or alternate topics.
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I posted an article from Airandspaceforces.com about the shoot-down in the F-22 thread. Because the article mentioned it was an F-22 which executed the shoot-down (the first known air-to-air 'kill' for an F-22), which weapon (AIM-9X) was used, what the altitude the F-22 was flying at (58.000 ft), etc.
Do you regard that somewhat as an inappropriate post, but not inappropriate enough to be deleted?
(Just asking, to maybe get a better understanding of what is allowed/tolerated or not on your forum when some matters are not specifically mentioned or maybe not well enough explained in the forum-rules.)
 
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Dilandu said:
Arjen said:
A weather balloon.
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Such claims from China is probably the main reason, why US military argued against shooting it down. If they wouldn't find anything definitely spy-ish in the wreck, the China would spin the story about "those insane Americans shot down harmless weather balloon that just accidentally drifted into US airspace". Considering the current state of US-China relations, shooting down a Chinese balloon and being unable to prove that it was doing anything bad is the last thing Washington DC may desire.
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Seems like, i was told, RC-135’s were circling balloon. And same type crafts were running up and down coast of China. Evidence gathering?
 
Orionblamblam said:
Moose said:
Hit the gondola rather than the envelope, interesting.
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The gondola is a bunch of metal, lots of radar reflectors and maybe warm solar panels. The envelope was almost certainly radar invisible, likely IR transparent.
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Given a few days to prep, I was wondering if they'd try for a clean hit on the envelope to maximize recovery opportunity. Probably mroe trouble than its worth.
 
Moose said:
Orionblamblam said:
Moose said:
Hit the gondola rather than the envelope, interesting.
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The gondola is a bunch of metal, lots of radar reflectors and maybe warm solar panels. The envelope was almost certainly radar invisible, likely IR transparent.
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Given a few days to prep, I was wondering if they'd try for a clean hit on the envelope to maximize recovery opportunity. Probably mroe trouble than its worth.
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Other opportunities will doubtless arise.
 
The Chinese surveillance/weather (delete to choice) balloon drifting across the USA this month was reportedly shot down by an AIM-9X fired from an F-22. This puzzles me somewhat as the AIM-9X is said to have an IR seeker only, and I would not have expected a helium-filled balloon that's been at high altitude for days to present a very good IR target.
Any comments?
 
It hit the gondola, not the balloon. This presumably contains electronics and a power source.
 
OK, but even so I would have thought that the AIM-9X seeker would have been optimised for homing onto much hotter sources, such as jet exhausts. However, my knowledge of guided missiles is somewhat tenuous... :(
 
Early IR seekers only liked really hot stuff like jet engine exhausts (around 2 micron range). Missiles moved to 3-5 micron seekers when all-aspect capability was needed.

AIM-9X has a 128 * 128 FPA sensitive to MWIR 3-5 micron IR radiation, and possibly also LWIR, 8-12 micron (modern IR seekers tend to use multiple bands or 'colours' to help reject flares, IR countermeasures etc. Not sure about the AIM-9X).

As to why 3-5 or 8-12 micron, this graph should help. 2 micron is hot jet engine exhaust, 5 micron is warm skin of aircraft or jet efflux. Atmosfaerisk_spredning.png
 
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sferrin said:
View attachment 692755
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Almost 18 years of Operational status (Almost 26 years if you include First Flight, and 42 years if you count the beginning of the Advanced Tactical Fighter program), and the F-22 Raptor got its first Air-To-Air Kill.

It may have just been a balloon, but better late than never. Here's to more successful Air-To-Air kills for the venerable Raptor in the years until its Retirement, however few they will be.

(Unless of course, the F-22 Raptors were possibly involved in some currently classified missions in which they did some Air-To-Air kills, the identities of whom we'll never know)
 
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Story doing the rounds that at least three ballons entered US airspace during Donald Trumps time at the White House and nothing was done.
 
A video of the balloon shot
donnage99 said:
Or hopefully for the mankind, no kills at all.
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That can do too. The Raptor can just remain a deterrence and will kill only when provoked, hopefully. Can't really say the same about the ground strikes it did, especially over Syria.
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
Not sure if that comment was directed at me or not @sferrin

Another moderator locked the topic, not me. Users simply kept posting on the topic in new or alternate topics. I tried to stop this.
It is simply not correct behaviour - if a topic is locked by a moderator it is intended to temporarily (or permanently) pause a discussion, either to calm down a volatile situation or to allow time for the topic to be cleaned up of bad posts. Carrying on the discussion after it was locked is simply poor self-control.
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Wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Just seemed like the frantic censorship of the subject (locking threads and deleting posts) seemed a little over the top for what seemed like relatively tame discussion.
 
PMN1 said:
Story doing the rounds that at least three ballons entered US airspace during Donald Trumps time at the White House and nothing was done.
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Already debunked. Basically some politician made that up.
 
Just an afterthought.... the F-22 seemed to be very close before firing the missile. Presumably the pilot waited until he got a "locked on" signal?

P.S.1: I recall that early in the Cold War the USA launched lots of "spy balloons" like this one to float across the USSR. The Soviets found them bothersome enough to develop special aircraft cannon ammunition to use against them - the shells were fitted with extremely sensitive flat-nosed fuzes designed to be triggered by impact with balloon fabric.

P.S.2: Which further reminds me that during WW1 the British developed a special anti-balloon fuze for 37mm cannon (the No. 131 fuze IIRC) which was very sensitive, with the nose made from thin metal foil.
 
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