Chinese Space Program

Josh_TN said:
Is not the current plan an Apollo style landing split between two Long March 10 rockets? By Apollo style I mean not in number and size of rockets, but rather in the size of the capsule and lander to be delivered. The Artemis plan in contrast is more to build to a permanent presence with a space station, reusable lander, etc. The latter will take far more time to completely achieve and is spread across four delivery platforms.
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Here's a rough size comparison between Mengzhou and the other lunar capsules (Orion, 7K-LOK and Apollo CSM), the capsule proper is 4.5m wide at its base, while the service module is 5m at its widest (about the same width as the CZ-10). The capsule is ~26-27t, comparable to Orion.

The Lanyue lander proper is about the same size as the LM, afaik. But it only does the last part of the descent and the ascent to Lunar orbit, the Lunar Insertion and most of the descent is done by the Crasher stage.
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Josh_TN said:
Is not the current plan an Apollo style landing split between two Long March 10 rockets? By Apollo style I mean not in number and size of rockets, but rather in the size of the capsule and lander to be delivered. The Artemis plan in contrast is more to build to a permanent presence with a space station, reusable lander, etc. The latter will take far more time to completely achieve and is spread across four delivery platforms.
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Because even Long March 10 is enough to launch other things, such as a pressurized lunar rover and a lunar orbital station
Captura-de-pantalla-18.png
 
China looking to Baikonur just got a boost:
scitechdaily.com

Scientists Detect Record-Breaking Methane Leak in Kazakhstan: The Largest Ever Documented

Scientists have documented the largest methane leak ever in Kazakhstan's Karaturun East field, releasing 131,000 tonnes over 205 days. Their study used satellite data and advanced methods for detection and quantification. An international team of scientists, led by Dr. Luis Guanter, a professor a
scitechdaily.com

They could have methalox fuel and a pad for a song
 
publiusr said:
China looking to Baikonur just got a boost:
scitechdaily.com

Scientists Detect Record-Breaking Methane Leak in Kazakhstan: The Largest Ever Documented

Scientists have documented the largest methane leak ever in Kazakhstan's Karaturun East field, releasing 131,000 tonnes over 205 days. Their study used satellite data and advanced methods for detection and quantification. An international team of scientists, led by Dr. Luis Guanter, a professor a
scitechdaily.com

They could have methalox fuel and a pad for a song
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Hainan is much better suited for launches, there's literally no use case for Baikonur.

Also, this news has nothing to do with thw Chinese Space Program.
 
A month after the static fire incident, Space Pioneer is doing fit and GSE tests of the Tianlong 3 using an inert ground model, this gives a good idea of the scale of the full launcher
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And here's a Falcon 9 to scale:
1722376386823.png
They haven't given an updated date for the first launch, but it is speculated they may try to launch first from their Jiuqan launch pad.

On other news, the first launch of the first of the two Chinese internet mega constellation, G60/Qianfan is planned for August 5th, 18 satellites of 300kg each. This get me thinking that this is one of the few space sectors where chinese companies will be directly (instead of indirectly) in competition with SpaceX for Internet service in some countries (especially these that are neither usually geopolitically aligned with china or the USA)...

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Crude translation (read kg instead of tons)
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This slide from a ~6 months old presentation shows the sheer scale of the chinese megaconstellation effort: They need to launch 12,500 tons to upper LEO in the next decade... The launch price tag (53.8 billion USD) using existing chinese expendable launchers (which cost ~4,100 $/kg) is clearly prohibitive, hence the demand for all these "F9 copies"

This illustrates what I wrote in the previous page
 

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snne said:
I still think they should've faced some repercussions...
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From their accidental launch and crash of their first first-stage? No doubt things are already happening quietly behind the scenes.
 
TheKutKu said:
A month after the static fire incident, Space Pioneer is doing fit and GSE tests of the Tianlong 3 using an inert ground model, this gives a good idea of the scale of the full launcher
View attachment 735648
View attachment 735649
And here's a Falcon 9 to scale:
View attachment 735654
Click to expand...

Good grief...

TheKutKu said:
View attachment 735656
This slide from a ~6 months old presentation shows the sheer scale of the chinese megaconstellation effort: hence the demand for all these "F9 copies"
Click to expand...
Anything you can do I can do bigger--I can do anything better than you.

No you can't

Yes I can--yes I can!
 
TheKutKu said:
A month after the static fire incident, Space Pioneer is doing fit and GSE tests of the Tianlong 3 using an inert ground model, this gives a good idea of the scale of the full launcher
View attachment 735648
View attachment 735649
And here's a Falcon 9 to scale:
View attachment 735654
They haven't given an updated date for the first launch, but it is speculated they may try to launch first from their Jiuqan launch pad.

On other news, the first launch of the first of the two Chinese internet mega constellation, G60/Qianfan is planned for August 5th, 18 satellites of 300kg each. This get me thinking that this is one of the few space sectors where chinese companies will be directly (instead of indirectly) in competition with SpaceX for Internet service in some countries (especially these that are neither usually geopolitically aligned with china or the USA)...

View attachment 735655
Crude translation (read kg instead of tons)
View attachment 735656
This slide from a ~6 months old presentation shows the sheer scale of the chinese megaconstellation effort: They need to launch 12,500 tons to upper LEO in the next decade... The launch price tag (53.8 billion USD) using existing chinese expendable launchers (which cost ~4,100 $/kg) is clearly prohibitive, hence the demand for all these "F9 copies"

This illustrates what I wrote in the previous page
Click to expand...

Assuming an F9 launch is about 17 tonnes, 12,500 would be approaching a thousand F9 sized lifts. Call it ~700. That is a very doable number over a decade; F9 itself could surpass that. But in the short term it is probably going to require a huge amount of single use rockets, followed by one or more Chinese companies achieving F9 level reusability in a much shorter timeframe than SpaceX. Given todays technology and the amount of resources being thrown at the problem, that seems likely, but I think the next several years are going to be a little painful.
 
Long March 6? How could 18 satellites be carried? Are they micro cubesats?

Edit: ah, 6A. I was unfamiliar with this configuration.
 
TheKutKu said:
Breakup of the CZ-6A's upper stage creating over 50 debris.
This is now the third CZ-6A's upper stage to break up in a row, and 4 out of 7 launches, all were in SSO/LEO Polar and will take centuries to fall back.
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Is there anything pointing at it being intentional?
 
I'm just waiting for the next generation ChiCom space system to be christened "Wan Hu"...

As an aside, how comes that a completely dictatorial country that has clearly turned as far capitalist as possible still gets away with calling itself "communist"???

And yes, Dear Mods, freely delete away...
 
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martinbayer said:
I'm just waiting for the next generation ChiCom space system to be christened "Wan Hu"...

As an aside, how comes that a completely dictatorial country that has clearly turned as far capitalist as possible still gets away with calling itself "communist"???

And yes, Dear Mods, freely delete away...
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In Marxist theory the communist society is the end goal that requires a transitionary phase to achieve that is both dictatorial and still has a continuity in using some capitalist means of production.
So to them there is no internal contradiction.
 
TheKutKu said:
In Marxist theory the communist society is the end goal that requires a transitionary phase to achieve that is both dictatorial and still has a continuity in using some capitalist means of production.
So to them there is no internal contradiction.
Click to expand...

"Le grand soir", as they called it in french. The big day, except the said transitionary phase never ends, for a lot of reasons.

As they say in Red Storm Rising

The year I entered Frunze Academy, the Party told us the date on which we would surely have 'True Communism in our lifetime.' A solemn promise. That
date was six years ago.
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If Bernie Sanders could possess the body of Xi he would probably gut their military and space programs--since he is a true socialist.

Xi thinks of himself as an emperor of old...the hammer and sickle symbol having as much weight as a state bird--trappings only.

Another explosion:
www.newsweek.com

Video shows cargo ship container exploding in busy port

No injuries have been reported so far following the blast in eastern China.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
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These debris are created by unspent fuel explosively venting in the second stage, correct? Is it really so difficult or expensive to safely vent the stage? AFAIK only PRC CZ variants seem to routinely have these events.
 

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