Chinese aircraft carriers - Type 002 'Shandong' and Type 003 'Fujian'

SUPER=BUG said:
So I have reason to think that the next aircraft carrier will be a sister ship of the Fujian, and not a CVN
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The mere presence of that dual catapult test module and expansion of the mockup carrier disproves the fact that Type 004 will be a (small) modification of Type 003. Unless China wants to go conventional for a 110K+ ton carrier it is very likely Type 004 will be a CVN. However there are rumors of a sister ship of Type 003 being built at JN shipyards. But currently it is very likely that either there will be a simultaneous construction of both the new Type 004 at DL and Type 003 sister ship at JN or only the Type 004 at DL.

Also that test module for new carrier has been around for from at least approximately this time last year, so it is possible fabrication of actual modules that will be used has already started and plausibly we might see the keel being laid down later this year if it hasn't already been laid down somewhere.
 
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Rumours from a few days ago already speculated that some modules seen at DL in satellite pics are for 004, though some claim the modules are civilian.
 
Tomboy said:
The mere presence of that dual catapult test module and expansion of the mockup carrier disproves the fact that Type 004 will be a (small) modification of Type 003. Unless China wants to go conventional for a 110K+ ton carrier it is very likely Type 004 will be a CVN. However there are rumors of a sister ship of Type 003 being built at JN shipyards. But currently it is very likely that either there will be a simultaneous construction of both the new Type 004 at DL and Type 003 sister ship at JN or only the Type 004 at DL.

Also that test module for new carrier has been around for from at least approximately this time last year, so it is possible fabrication of actual modules that will be used has already started and plausibly we might see the keel being laid down later this year if it hasn't already been laid down somewhere.
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China's development of aircraft carriers was finalized in August 2004, known as "Project 048". And the three-step strategy for the development of aircraft carriers is clear: the first step is to build 2 medium-sized aircraft carriers in 10 years; The second step is to build 2 large aircraft carriers in another 10 years; The third step is to develop large nuclear-powered aircraft carriers according to the situation
 
Of course, this is the plan made in 2004. I think the aircraft carrier project has been progressing steadily, and as for the CVN, it's just a matter of time. I still believe the next one to launch will be conventionally powered, after all, that's the most practical.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
当然，这是 2004 年制定的计划。我认为航空母舰项目一直在稳步推进，至于 CVN，这只是时间问题。我仍然相信下一个推出的将是传统动力的，毕竟这是最实用的。
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根据位于武汉的一对一航母模型，确定下一种航母的舰岛没有烟囱，只能使用核动力航母

Machine translation:
"According to the model of the one-to-one aircraft carrier located in Wuhan, it was determined that the ship island of the next type of aircraft carrier does not have a chimney and can only use nuclear-powered aircraft carriers"
 
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Arjen said:
@lijian90 I do not use automatic translation on this site, it appears that you do. Your comment is presented to me in Chinese text. Please present your comments in English. If necessary, use auto-translator.

Welcome to the forum.
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This is the disadvantage of the automatic translator, sometimes you write in English, but the translator automatically translates into Chinese and sends it out:mad:
 
Sorry for Chinese. The image below shows a satellite image of a one-to-one simulated concrete model of an aircraft carrier in Wuhan. From top to bottom respectively correspond to aircraft carrier 001 Liaoning 003 Fujian future aircraft carrier and the United States Ford aircraft carrier. You can see that the island of the future carrier has shrunk significantly, and it is close to the island of the Ford carrier
 

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Hmmm... This should be some kind of test, I really haven't heard of these buildings in China, maybe China's fifth aircraft carrier is a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, but the fourth is likely to be conventional power, when the fourth aircraft carrier is completed, the drawings of the fifth aircraft carrier should be determined
 
SUPER=BUG said:
Hmmm... This should be some kind of test, I really haven't heard of these buildings in China, maybe China's fifth aircraft carrier is a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, but the fourth is likely to be conventional power, when the fourth aircraft carrier is completed, the drawings of the fifth aircraft carrier should be determined
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This is not a test, the building before was a mockup for the 003 and the 003 was built shortly after. There is 0 reason to assume anything is different here
 
Wow, it looks like there's going to be an even bigger surprise in a few years！
 
lancer21 said:
Rumours from a few days ago already speculated that some modules seen at DL in satellite pics are for 004, though some claim the modules are civilian.
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Some suggest that's a test module for future 004, for feasibility study

SUPER=BUG said:
China's development of aircraft carriers was finalized in August 2004, known as "Project 048". And the three-step strategy for the development of aircraft carriers is clear: the first step is to build 2 medium-sized aircraft carriers in 10 years; The second step is to build 2 large aircraft carriers in another 10 years; The third step is to develop large nuclear-powered aircraft carriers according to the situation
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For those plans, they always change, especially when the major planning people are already in jail (both PLAN and shipyard)...

Tomboy said:
This is not a test, the building before was a mockup for the 003 and the 003 was built shortly after. There is 0 reason to assume anything is different here
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The reason of building the test structure in Wuhan is for again, feasibility study and to correct any potential issues (including EM), so they can face less troubles when building and operating the real thing

So, things still can change, and will change from the Wuhan test site.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
By the way, the military emblem
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If they're making that in cloth patches, I want one! I may have either Georgia BN or Kenticky BN patches to trade, or cash.



SUPER=BUG said:
Of course, this is the plan made in 2004. I think the aircraft carrier project has been progressing steadily, and as for the CVN, it's just a matter of time. I still believe the next one to launch will be conventionally powered, after all, that's the most practical.
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Agreed, a CVN gives a carrier a lot more volume for avfuel. And arguably more room for weapons, but the bigger advantage for the USN is avfuel.
 
SK2 said:
Some suggest that's a test module for future 004, for feasibility study
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You are probably referring to the test module showing catapult grooves, satellite images of it are from early 2024. I was referring to a different set of modules seen in satellite images this year, which are speculated to be part of the actual 004 carrier.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1898333708698202492
View: https://x.com/Rational314159/status/1898333708698202492

If that would be the case we should see 004 start taking shape soon.
 
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有人可以查看来自 Sentinel 卫星的高清图像吗？据说 004 航母的一些部分已经出现了。如果可以看到圆孔（用于固定核反应堆），则可以证明 004 是核动力的，还可以确定反应堆的数量。
 
lijian90 said:
有人可以查看来自 Sentinel 卫星的高清图像吗？据说 004 航母的一些部分已经出现了。如果可以看到圆孔（用于固定核反应堆），则可以证明 004 是核动力的，还可以确定反应堆的数量。
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Translation, please.
 
NMaude said:
Traduzione, per favore.
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"Qualcuno può controllare le immagini HD dal satellite Sentinel? Si dice che siano apparse alcune parti della portaerei 004. Se si possono vedere i fori circolari (utilizzati per contenere i reattori nucleari), si può dimostrare che la 004 è alimentata a energia nucleare e si può anche determinare il numero di reattori."
 
Translation as follow:

Can someone check high quality image from Sentinel satellite? Some said parts of 004 CV has appeared. If there are holes in circle shape, nuclear power can be confirmed as those holes are for stapling the nuclear reactors. Also number of reactors can be confirmed with number of those holes.
 
lancer21 said:
Probably too early to discern circles (see the placeholder representation of Ford class during the same building stage as 004 is alleged to be now), but this again hints that 004 module assembly has begun.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1901638856866439529
View: https://x.com/i/web/status/1901638856866439529


Also, apparently Fujian is going out tomorrow. Maybe we'll finally get to see it's eagerly anticipated and historical first aircraft take-off/ landing?
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That's at early of keel laying of a large vessel, hard to differentiate the keel from other big vessels like ULCC or ULCV, apart from being built from specific drydock.
 
Rather interesting I think to have all the parts laid out like that getting ready to be joined together.
 
945-x-548-cctv-showing-what-appears-to-be-a-model-of-chinas-v0-4ou0df5hn2yc1.jpeg
Model of Project 891, Chinese CATOBAR carrier concept from the 90s. In case anyone want to see how different it was from China’s first CATOBAR carrier.

I do find naval varient of J-10 interesting, since things did not turn out that way.
 
I remember that I saw the relevant official declassified video, and the ship seemed to be smaller than the Fujian ship
 
Given that this model is numbered 10, I suddenly have a bold speculation, is there a possibility that the reason why China's first aircraft carrier serial number started from 16 is because China has carried out 15 aircraft carrier designs before? Although these carriers were not applied.
 
I that that CV design in the photographs is from the 1990s and it's smaller I'd it was based on knowledge gained in the 1980s when HMAS Melbourne was scrapped in China (The PLA:N conducted detailed examinations of the CV for several years IIRC before it was scrapped).

From HMAS Melbourne wikipedia article, decommissioning and fate:

The ship was not scrapped immediately; instead she was studied by Chinese naval architects and engineers as part of the nation's top-secret carrier development program.[3] It is unclear whether the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) orchestrated the acquisition of Melbourne or simply took advantage of the situation; Rear Admiral Zhang Zhaozhong, a staff member at the National Defence College, has stated that the Navy was unaware of the purchase until Melbourne first arrived at Guangzhou.[168] Melbourne was the largest warship any of the Chinese experts had seen, and they were surprised by the amount of equipment which was still in place. The PLAN subsequently arranged for the ship's flight deck and all the equipment associated with flying operations to be removed so that they could be studied in depth.[164] Reports have circulated that either a replica of the flight deck, or the deck itself, was used for clandestine training of PLANAFpilots in carrier flight operations.[3] It has also been claimed that the Royal Australian Navy received and "politely rejected" a request from the PLAN for blueprints of the ship's steam catapult.[164] The carrier was not dismantled for many years; according to some rumours she was not completely broken up until 2002.[151] A 2012 article in Jane's Navy International stated that the large quantity of equipment recovered from Melbourne"undoubtedly helped" Admiral Liu Huaqing secure the Chinese government's support for his proposal to initiate an aircraft carrier development programme.[164]
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