Chengdu J-20 news and analysis Part III

[Hydroman]

No dice. Tried with and without VPN, changing VPN to other countries, same thing. Oh well.

I got your back

I've seen that one. I was hoping somebody had the entire performance.

And? SU-35, F-22, SU-57 have shown very impressive maneuverability and flight characteristics, is there more to the J-20 or are the Chinese holding back? I know the F-15 has impressive capabilities and they are not shown publicly, reason it's been around for so long.

 

[Deino]

No dice. Tried with and without VPN, changing VPN to other countries, same thing. Oh well.

I got your back

I've seen that one. I was hoping somebody had the entire performance.

And? SU-35, F-22, SU-57 have shown very impressive maneuverability and flight characteristics, is there more to the J-20 or are the Chinese holding back? I know the F-15 has impressive capabilities and they are not shown publicly, reason it's been around for so long.

I think you should read and rate it in context ... no-one claimed to be super-duper-hyper impressive, but "If I'm reading this correctly then for the first time the PLAAF took the J-20 a little more "off the leash" at the 2022 Changchun Air Show after all previous flight displays were rather tired flybys:

https://twitter.com/TrepverterA/status/1563410562020651009

 

[sferrin]

No dice. Tried with and without VPN, changing VPN to other countries, same thing. Oh well.

I got your back

I've seen that one. I was hoping somebody had the entire performance.

And? SU-35, F-22, SU-57 have shown very impressive maneuverability and flight characteristics, is there more to the J-20 or are the Chinese holding back? I know the F-15 has impressive capabilities and they are not shown publicly, reason it's been around for so long.

I think you should read and rate it in context ... no-one claimed to be super-duper-hyper impressive, but "If I'm reading this correctly then for the first time the PLAAF took the J-20 a little more "off the leash" at the 2022 Changchun Air Show after all previous flight displays were rather tired flybys:

https://twitter.com/TrepverterA/status/1563410562020651009

No need to get so defensive. I was merely looking for the entire performance for the entertainment value.

 

[stealthflanker]

man, the quote pyramid.

 

[Forest Green]

man, the quote pyramid.

I call it a quotem pole.

 

[sferrin]

 

[FighterJock]

Thanks for posting the video sferrin.

 

[Forest Green]

What engines is it using?

 

[Conspirator]

What engines is it using?

The J-20s are fitted with the Russian AL-31F engines and these will be gradually be replaced by the WS-15

 

[icyplanetnhc (Steve)]

More specifically, from my readings (including from @Deino) I think the early J-20 production lots appear to use the AL-31FM2 from Salyut, which is uprated to about 142 kN, or 32,000 lbf, of static augmented thrust. Newer lots use a variant of the WS-10 (not sure if the designation WS-10C is official), likely with similar output.

 

[bobbymike]

China should 'worry' about Taiwan 2027 timeline, J-20 is just 'OK' fighter: PACAF chief - Breaking Defense

“China has a much more difficult military problem from the standpoint of, they have to accomplish one of the most difficult military events that you would have to do," said Gen. Kenneth Wilsbach. “If I was them, I'd be worried. If I was a [Chinese] military commander, I'd be worried about 2027.”

breakingdefense.com

 

[TMA1]

What else would he say? Not trying to be offensive but beyond obvious allegiances it is important to remember most generals and admirals are amphibians. Half soldier, and half politician. This has always been the case but in our country one side has definitely become more dominant.

The J-20 is nothing to look down on. In many respects the Chinese have surpassed the Russians in the aviation field. I think with ws-15/izd 30 type engines it will match or even best western fifth gen fighters in certain fields. The Chinese have advanced a lot in electronic warfare and communications. Same can be said about the advances in A2A and A2G weaponry. Now add to this a very large and powerful radar and electro optical sensors and ability to supercruise throughout most of its mission when it gets the new engines. Not to mention the new two seat variety with UAVs slaved to the back seat operator.

The thing is a beast already, and will get more potent as time progresses. I will never underestimate the Chinese or their ambitions. They will not allow themselves to become a tool to another power again.

 

[In_A_Dream]

What else would he say? Not trying to be offensive but beyond obvious allegiances it is important to remember most generals and admirals are amphibians. Half soldier, and half politician. This has always been the case but in our country one side has definitely become more dominant.

The J-20 is nothing to look down on. In many respects the Chinese have surpassed the Russians in the aviation field. I think with ws-15/izd 30 type engines it will match or even best western fifth gen fighters in certain fields. The Chinese have advanced a lot in electronic warfare and communications. Same can be said about the advances in A2A and A2G weaponry. Now add to this a very large and powerful radar and electro optical sensors and ability to supercruise throughout most of its mission when it gets the new engines. Not to mention the new two seat variety with UAVs slaved to the back seat operator.

The thing is a beast already, and will get more potent as time progresses. I will never underestimate the Chinese or their ambitions. They will not allow themselves to become a tool to another power again.

+1 No one should underestimate the Chinese.

 

[bobbymike]

US general “the J-20 is an incredible aircraft”

“Hahaha another member of the MIC wanting more money”

“The J-20 pretty average overall”

“Hahaha better not underestimate the Chinese”

Tough being a general

 

[icyplanetnhc (Steve)]

Having a capability requires equipment, personnel, and training. With the J-20 still being relatively new in the PLAAF force structure, the TTPs that would enable effective employment may simply not be as developed and refined. That said, it certainly it shouldn’t be underestimated, as we need to make a honest assessment of the capabilities and limitations.

 

[donnage99]

The US military has had a history of overestimating not underestimating. Up to the point of the Ukraine invasion most US led NATO exercises and wargames had Russians beating the crap out of it.

With that being said, even though the performance and quality of china's equipment are for the most part just claims, they have proven that their ability to ramp up production over short amount of time with their ship building capability at least speaks to their technological advancement as manufacturing capability itself relies on advanced technology.

 

[AI098]

What engines is it using?

The J-20s are fitted with the Russian AL-31F engines and these will be gradually be replaced by the WS-15





View attachment 683726View attachment 683727

Use WS10， version using WS10C may be exhibited recently，Because it has TVC

 

[AI098]

看起来，我们终于有了歼-20驾驶舱的清晰图像......或者至少是它的模拟器

https://twitter.com/x/status/1575494075586732034

View: https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1575494075586732034

 

[GTX]

Translation: Looks like we finally have a clear image of the J-20's cockpit...or at least a simulator of it

 

[TomcatViP]

Not too bad. There is space & apparently clarity in information display. The seating position is however too low for my own taste.

 

[Deino]

View attachment 684727View attachment 684728

看起来，我们终于有了歼-20驾驶舱的清晰图像......或者至少是它的模拟器

Maybe we could have added simply my original Tweet

https://twitter.com/x/status/1575494075586732034

View: https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1575494075586732034

 

[Dreamfighter]

The seating position is however too low for my own taste.

Maybe that pilot is just a kid. To me he looks like he still is.

 

[TomcatViP]

@Dreamfighter : good point!

 

[Ronny]

Is it just me or anyone else feel like the window of J-20 EOTS is slightly curve inward instead of flat?. Especially the rear window?

 

[TsrJoe]

For fun try putting a flat plate shape to interface on a curved surface

 

[Ronny]

For fun try putting a flat plate shape to interface on a curved surface

the bottom of J-20 nose where the EO sensor mounted is kind of flat

 

[KUMA]

Evolution of what became J-20.View attachment 682310

This is the result of my textual research

In 1998, the aerodynamic layout of the combination of canard wing and strake wing was determined.

Around 1998 to 2002-2003, CAC scheme is still the belly intake, and it should be in 2002-2003 that it really became the two-sided intake scheme that we see now.

The following is imaginary diagram of this scheme that I drew.

 

[sferrin]

Evolution of what became J-20.View attachment 682310

This is the result of my textual research

In 1998, the aerodynamic layout of the combination of canard wing and strake wing was determined.

Around 1998 to 2002-2003, CAC scheme is still the belly intake, and it should be in 2002-2003 that it really became the two-sided intake scheme that we see now.

The following is imaginary diagram of this scheme that I drew.

View attachment 685170
View attachment 685171

That looks. . . familiar.

 

[FighterJock]

Is it just me or anyone else feel like the window of J-20 EOTS is slightly curve inward instead of flat?. Especially the rear window?

View attachment 685162
View attachment 685163
View attachment 685164

It is not just you Ronny, I thought that I saw it curved as well, weird.

 

[flateric]

For fun try putting a flat plate shape to interface on a curved surface

the bottom of J-20 nose where the EO sensor mounted is kind of flat

kind of not at all

 

[windcalm]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580124569125662721

View: https://twitter.com/louischeung_hk/status/1580124569125662721?s=20&t=TSyqb5gozFPndk_lTu9rnw

 

[dan_inbox]

Hmm. The conversation says it's CGI...

 

[Trident]

It certainly looks CGI to me, whatever people say...

 

[Forest Green]

The drones are definitely CGI.

 

[FighterJock]

The drones are definitely CGI.

Certainly looks like CGI, let’s wait and see what Deino has to say about them.

 

[Deino]

The drones are definitely CGI.

Certainly looks like CGI, let’s wait and see what Deino has to say about them.

I think it is so much obvious that these are all only CGs ... in fact I don't understand all these doubts.

 

[Forest Green]

I think the difference is that the J-20 was probably pulled into the shot from a real image of a J-20, but the drones flying alongside were never real in the first place.

 

[FighterJock]

The drones are definitely CGI.

Certainly looks like CGI, let’s wait and see what Deino has to say about them.

I think it is so much obvious that these are all only CGs ... in fact I don't understand all these doubts.

I wonder why China is bothering to put out CGI images when it is so blatantly obvious that they are, it just gets so annoying.

 

[Forest Green]

I wonder why China is bothering to put out CGI images when it is so blatantly obvious that they are, it just gets so annoying.

They're learning from the success of the Qaher-313.

 

[Deino]

The drones are definitely CGI.

Certainly looks like CGI, let’s wait and see what Deino has to say about them.

I think it is so much obvious that these are all only CGs ... in fact I don't understand all these doubts.

I wonder why China is bothering to put out CGI images when it is so blatantly obvious that they are, it just gets so annoying.

Simply since no real images available, since it is not "China" which is using such "blatantly obvious" images, but CCTV and most likely the reported who made this TV-report used them since they are fancy.

I think we need to differ between something "official" from a Chinese authority like CAC, AVIC or the PLAAF or "official" from CCTV, which is in no way an official announcement of some sort, but just a report that does not contradict the "official official" line of thoughts.