Chengdu J-20 news and analysis Part III

bobbymike said:
China’s Gen6 mock-up?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1477624613869961229
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1477624613869961229
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There's been numerous tailless high speed flying wing/delta/dorito aircraft in the form of concept art, models, and possibly even one flying demonstrator, that are either related to the 6th gen fighter project or intended as a generic stand in for the 6th gen fighter project.

But the key word is generic -- just as we don't know what exactly the USAF's 6th gen fighter will look like despite a plethora of manufacturer concept art and some tantalizing models, we similarly don't know what the PLA's 6th gen fighter will look like despite similarly having concept art etc.
 
The mockup of the 6th generation fighter is certainly an interesting design Deino, I like it.
 
FighterJock said:
The mockup of the 6th generation fighter is certainly an interesting design Deino, I like it.
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Indeed interesting, but as noted in my Tweet: "...surely not an accurate model of the real concept and as such more a generic placeholder..."

True source is:

航空工业机载座舱系统事业部首届科技大会成功举办_中国航空新闻网

中国航空新闻网（Can News）隶属于《中国航空报》社有限公司（CAN Press），是航空行业第一新闻门户网站，主要内容包含航空制造业、民航运输、军事防务、MRO、通用及商务航空、科技前沿、图集、视频、策划专题及会展活动等。旗下看航空IP是行业知名新媒体矩阵品牌，产品覆盖微信、微博、今日头条、网易、搜狐、腾讯、凤凰网、百度、一点资讯、UC大鱼、优酷、爱奇艺、H5及海报等。
www.cannews.com.cn www.cannews.com.cn
 
Deino said:
FighterJock said:
The mockup of the 6th generation fighter is certainly an interesting design Deino, I like it.
Click to expand...


Indeed interesting, but as noted in my Tweet: "...surely not an accurate model of the real concept and as such more a generic placeholder..."

True source is:

航空工业机载座舱系统事业部首届科技大会成功举办_中国航空新闻网

中国航空新闻网（Can News）隶属于《中国航空报》社有限公司（CAN Press），是航空行业第一新闻门户网站，主要内容包含航空制造业、民航运输、军事防务、MRO、通用及商务航空、科技前沿、图集、视频、策划专题及会展活动等。旗下看航空IP是行业知名新媒体矩阵品牌，产品覆盖微信、微博、今日头条、网易、搜狐、腾讯、凤凰网、百度、一点资讯、UC大鱼、优酷、爱奇艺、H5及海报等。
www.cannews.com.cn www.cannews.com.cn
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Thanks Deino.
 
1642166637451.png
Allegedly this is the first shot of a WS-15 equipped J-20. If true this is a huge news proving China finally has a fully mature jet engine design and manifacturing capability. Also it's a major milestone for the J-20 program, the new engine should close the gap with F-22 in power weight ratio and supercruise capability.
 
Would be incredible though I am doubtful for one reason. The Chinese have matched and in certain fields overtaken Russia all but in engine tech. Russians are going full steam ahead on their izd 30 engine and yet it doesnt start full on testing till late this year and won't finish tests till mid 2024 I believe.

So I am not sure what to think on this. Maybe the Chinese have gotten that proficient as they have been heavily investing in the field.
 
TMA1 said:
Would be incredible though I am doubtful for one reason. The Chinese have matched and in certain fields overtaken Russia all but in engine tech. Russians are going full steam ahead on their izd 30 engine and yet it doesnt start full on testing till late this year and won't finish tests till mid 2024 I believe.

So I am not sure what to think on this. Maybe the Chinese have gotten that proficient as they have been heavily investing in the field.
Click to expand...

Izd 30 first flew on a Su-57 in December 2017, with izd 30 on one side, existing interim Al-41 on the other.

The rumours are saying that J-20 started flight testing WS-15 sometime during 2021 in a similar format, with WS-15 on one side, existing interim engine on the other. That is what these pictures are depicting -- see how in that picture the engine nozzle on the right side of the aircraft (top one in the photo) is shorter and fatter than the other.
Better compared with a compilation of the various pictures from the last year taken supposedly of this WS-15 test J-20 airframe, kindly created by @Deino:

View: https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1481988682508914694

ws15 compare.jpeg



====

That's nearly a four year gap between those equivalent milestones of testing between izd 30 and WS-15, so it seems pretty reasonable to me? Not that incredible.

Of course, that four year gap between those equivalent milestones doesn't mean we know how long each engine will take to reach further milestones such as twin engine testing on new aircraft, low rate production, full rate production etc...
 
I'm curious if there is any shots depicting J-20's engine afterburning section. Would love to see whether they adopt "stealthy augmenter" solution similar as F-22's.
 
Thank you @Deino & @aonestudio

But i guess no one yet tried to make this kind of shot yet for J-20. As seen here the turbine are not visible, due to obstruction by the stealthy augmentor.

Different blocker.png
 
siegecrossbow said:
I don't think WS-10 has stealth augmentors. You could see the flame stabilizers pretty easily.
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I see.. then this should be still actual.

y5UzAB4.jpeg
 
Wow :oops::p:D

Finally a first clearer image of the J-20 engine testbed - as it seems an older 201x prototype - was posted. Even if still not clear of a TVC-variant of the WS-10C or already the rumoured WS-15, it anyway clearly reveals for the first time the nozzles.

(Image via @shawnhwang_)

014586FD-2F56-4325-9E36-B667948A3973.jpeg A91E6A1E-992D-43CF-B8D5-F629B132B340.jpeg
 
Deino said:
Wow :oops::p:D

Finally a first clearer image of the J-20 engine testbed - as it seems an older 201x prototype - was posted. Even if still not clear of a TVC-variant of the WS-10C or already the rumoured WS-15, it anyway clearly reveals for the first time the nozzles.

(Image via @shawnhwang_)

View attachment 672406View attachment 672407
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Interesting that the left engine has serrated airframe fairing to nozzle support interface, along with serrated nozzle support to external flaps. The right engine nozzle with the serrated nozzle flap trailing edges has straight interface and support.

Looks like they are still investigating the effects of various features on the signature.
 
The left one is the standard AL-31F installation, the one on the right is a test engine installation that probably doesn't concern itself with low observability.

What surprises me is that the nozzle doesn't seem to have the split petal design that was seen on the TVC J-10. Doesn't mean it's not TVC capable though - most TVC nozzles lack split petals, after all...
 
I don’t think this would be useful for radar signature though, as RF wave interactions in the rear sector between the two nozzles would be significant, and probably not helpful in predicting the RCS of the final symmetrical product. Perhaps IR signature? I’m not sure if the J-20 bleeds air through the engine bay and the aft cowling like on the F-35.
 
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Trident said:
The left one is the standard AL-31F installation, the one on the right is a test engine installation that probably doesn't concern itself with low observability.

What surprises me is that the nozzle doesn't seem to have the split petal design that was seen on the TVC J-10. Doesn't mean it's not TVC capable though - most TVC nozzles lack split petals, after all...
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I think it does. Just the sharpness of the image is poor so it’s hard to see.
 
Looks similar to izd 30 nozzle. To me this nozzle looks different from the ws-10c nozzle or the TVC prototype seen earlier. Not sure though. As someone said it needs better resolution images.
 
Looks like a low quality mockup of one of the 2001/2002 prototypes.
The J-10 in the background doesn't look right either.

I suspect it's probably at a private military theme park of some kind... when I visited the Kiev, they also had a bunch of non-official mockups made of various aircraft for display purposes.
 
www.flightglobal.com

F-35s have encountered J-20s over East China Sea: USAF general

A top US Air Force (USAF) general says that Lockheed Martin F-35s have had at least one encounter with Chengdu J-20s, and that the Shaanxi KJ-500 airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft has a key role in long-range air-to-air kill chains.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

First encounter between two hostile fifth gen fighter aircraft in human history.
 
siegecrossbow said:
www.flightglobal.com

F-35s have encountered J-20s over East China Sea: USAF general

A top US Air Force (USAF) general says that Lockheed Martin F-35s have had at least one encounter with Chengdu J-20s, and that the Shaanxi KJ-500 airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft has a key role in long-range air-to-air kill chains.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

First encounter between two hostile fifth gen fighter aircraft in human history.
Click to expand...
Can we see the bloody sky in the nearly future?
 

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