Caproni aircraft designations

[hesham]

I agree with you my dear Apophenia,

maybe this was a fake design,we must check.

 

[hesham]

A windtunnel model, that may represent a Caproni type, too, is shown in the "Deutschen Technikmuseum Berlin"
(German technical museum Berlin)

My dear Jemiba,

it was Caproni Ca.150 heavy fighter Project.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://www.viagginellastoria.it/caproni/illibro.htm

 

[Apophenia]

Fantastic link, blackkite From that, I've added details or corrections to over 50 Caproni types!

 

[hesham]

Hi,

a details about some Caproni Airplanes and Projects.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201948%2002.pdf

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks ... good stuff Hesham. Details added to list.

 

[Sherman Tank]

Enrico Cernuschi and Vincent O'Hara's article on Italian aircraft carrier design ("Search for a Flattop: The Italian Navy and the Aircraft Carrier 1907-2007") in Warship 2007 has some additional information about the Caproni Ca.165 biplane fighter... apparently it was at least partially designed as a carrier-based fighter. The follow quote is from page 70 of the aforementioned article:

"[The end of the war in Ethiopia removed the urgent need for an Italian aircraft carrier and] also ended hopes for the 14,000t carrier [design], which was cancelled despite the order already placed for the fighters (the Caproni Ca.165 biplane) and the torpedo-bomber (a single-engined, more powerful Isotta Fraschini version of the little Cant. Z.1012 which, at least in theory, had performance characteristics analogous to the Japanese Nakajima 'Kate')."

 

[blockhaj]

The English wikipedia for the Caproni CA.313 mentions a "Ca.312 An enhanced Ca.310 with inline engines. Sold to Norway." Anyone know what this might refer too?

 

[hesham]

The English wikipedia for the Caproni CA.313 mentions a "Ca.312 An enhanced Ca.310 with inline engines. Sold to Norway." Anyone know what this might refer too?

I will check.

 

[Hood]

Norway ordered 15 Ca.312bis which had an unglazed stepped nose like the Ca.311 and 650hp Piaggio P.XVI RC.35 engines. These shouldn't be confused with the 4 Ca.310 deliviered to Norway earlier. The 15 Ca.312bis were later diverted to the Regia Aeronautica after the German invasion of Norway.
24 similar aircraft were also ordered by the Belgains, those too ended up with the Regia Aeronautica.

 

[blockhaj]

Norway ordered 15 Ca.312bis which had an unglazed stepped nose like the Ca.311 and 650hp Piaggio P.XVI RC.35 engines. These shouldn't be confused with the 4 Ca.310 deliviered to Norway earlier. The 15 Ca.312bis were later diverted to the Regia Aeronautica after the German invasion of Norway.
24 similar aircraft were also ordered by the Belgains, those too ended up with the Regia Aeronautica.

Well i know this. The norwegians ordered the Ca.312bis with redial engines.

So it sounds weird when it says that Ca."312" a 310 modded with inline engines and then sold to norway?

 

[Hood]

Sounds to me like another Wikipedia error.

Though I must say I've always found the Ca.310 series to have been quite complicated to follow with so many variants and mooted exports!

 

[Apophenia]

I've received a host of Caproni designation confirmations (and details) courtesy of boxkite. He gleaned these from the publication Gente dell'aria, Vol. 7, by Giorgio Evangelisti (2007, Editoriale Olimpia, Sesto Fiorentino, Florence). These have now been incorporated into the Caproni lists ... with Gente dell'aria volume/page numbers given as 'G7 pxx').

Other details and sub-types that I've come across have also been added to the lists. Some are 'orphans'. Eg: I've nested the 'Super Ghibli' and two 'Ghibli meteorologico' studies within the Ca.309 series - although they may have received their own designations within the range of 'missing' Ca.3xx types.

I've also taken the opportunity to re-format all the Caproni lists (hopefully making them more easily readable and adding some more links).

Inevitably, there are a few designs which do not fit into the standardized designation scheme. The additions are:

Tricap* - 1933 2-seat tandem trainer monoplane, x 1 (MM196)
-- * Tricap name is a contraction of Trigona-Caproni**
- Tricap: 1 x 130 hp Farina T.58 5-cyl. radial, span 11.40 m
- Tricap: (Project) 1 x 110 hp Fiat A.53 7-cyl., G7 p84
-- Intended for prod'n as Fiat A.53-powered tourer/trainer
-- aka Caproni Sauro-1, ** designed by Ercole Trigona

Caproni AP.5: (Project) Postwar 2-seat helicopter
- AP.5: Designed by Amilcare Porro, G7 p194

Presumably, the AP.5 was Amilcare Porro's fifth complete design for Caproni - he shared credit on numerous designs (and exclusively designed at least the Ca.193 light transport and unbuilt Ca.195 jet trainer). At any rate, this postwar AP.5 designation has nothing to do with the better-known prewar AP.1 - which stood for 'Assalto Pallavicino' after its designer, Ing. Cesare Pallavicino.

Many thanks again to boxkite! Any other Ca.xxx designations, Caproni details, and/or corrections are most welcome.

 

[hesham]

Many thanks my dears Apophenia and Boxkite,

but for AP.5,certainly it was a series from AP.1 to AP.4,not related to AP.1 of prewar
designation.

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks hesham. Do you have more on any of those postwar 'AP' designations? With Amilcare Porro designing so many Caproni (and other) aircraft during this period, it is odd to see a separate AP.xx series.

BTW: Dr Ing Porro became general manager of Aerfer (Industrie Meccaniche Aeronautiche Meridionali—Aerfer) in early 1968. Does anyone know anything about the Aerfer Ae-105 design?

 

[hesham]

Thanks hesham. Do you have more on any of those postwar 'AP' designations? With Amilcare Porro designing so many Caproni (and other) aircraft during this period, it is odd to see a separate AP.xx series.

BTW: Dr Ing Porro became general manager of Aerfer (Industrie Meccaniche Aeronautiche Meridionali—Aerfer) in early 1968. Does anyone know anything about the Aerfer Ae-105 design?

Unfortunately I have not,but certainly they were in Caproni Ca.190s designs,and about the Aerfer Ae.150,it was a high-wing transport aircraft Project,later became Fiat G.222.

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks to the ever-generous boxkite, I've now been able to view three volumes on Caproni aircraft - all by or with contributions from the late, great Rosario Abate. These books were:

Gli Aeroplani Della Caproni Aeronautica Bergmasca: 1920-1946, Volume Primo - Dalle origini al Ca 135 e derivati by Rosario Abate, Edizione Bizzarri, Roma, 1975

Gli Aeroplani Della Caproni Aeronautica Bergmasca: 1920-1946, Volume Secondo - Dalle "Borea" ai "Libeccio" (Ca.306-Ca.318) by Rosario Abate, Edizione Bizzarri, Roma, 1978

Aeroplani Caproni: Gianni Caproni and His Aircraft, 1910-1983 by Rosario Abate, Gregory Alegi, & Giorgio Apostolo, Museo Caproni [Associazione Museo dell'Aeronautica "G. Caproni"], Trento, 1992

All this wonderful new info has allowed me to correct, amend, and add to all of the Caproni designation number lists. I have also taken the opportunity to re-organize those lists. Many of the undesignated (or unknown designation) projects have now been edited out of the number lists. These are now organized in their own list (below) along with a few undesignated (or unknown designation) project duplications from the number lists.

Again, a big thank you to boxkite for making all of this possible!

 

[Apophenia]

Undesignated (or unknown designation) CAB Projects

I have clumped all undesignated (or unknown designation) Caproni Aeronautica Bergmasca projects here. For the most part they are gathered into somewhat arbitrary groupings.

Some projects may have had no sub-type (or change of designation) applied. For example, one Ca.105 (MM.280) was employed for drone experiments but likely had no designation change. On the other hand, an export version of the Ca.134 with the Asso XI V-12 replaced by a Wright Cyclone would likely have received an entirely new designation had it been built. But did Caproni bother to apply such a designation at the project stage? Probably not. Perhaps arbitrarily, these 'undesignated' projects are not listed here.

A few of these are duplications from the number lists. Where planned or built sub-types are well-known but seem to have no designations, I've included them is both locations. Examples are: the built AP.1 Idro (which likely also had a now-unkown Ca.308 sub-type designation); and the unbuilt British orders for Libeccio derivatives (which may have had export-nation suffixes added to Ca.310, Ca.311, and Ca.313 designations).

Others - eg: a Tifone-powered development of the unbuilt Ca.331 - have also been left in both places for completeness. Doubtless as big a change as switching from Delta to much more powerful Tifone powerplants would have warranted a new designation. However, I've lumped this assault variant in with the Ca.331 in the Ca.3xx list until a proper type/sub-type designation is unveiled. Ditto for a range of other Caproni projects currently lacking know new- or sub-type designations.

_____________________________________

Undesignated CAB Velivoli Commerciali Studies

1934 Bimotore Trasporto Passeggeri studies for 8-seat (pilot, radio operator + 6 pax) light cabin monoplanes. These studies led up to the 1935 Ca.306 (Ca.308 Borea prototype).

(I) - Low-winged, retractable main undercarriage
- (I) : 2 x 140 hp Fiat A.54 7-cyl., span 16.00 m
- (I) : Alt. engine, 2 x 240 hp Alfa-Romeo D.2 9-cyl

(II) - High-winged, fixed/strutted main undercarriage
- (II): 2 x 140 hp Fiat A.54 7-cyl., span 16.00 m
- (II): Alt. engine, 2 x 240 hp Alfa-Romeo D.2 9-cyl
- (II): Fitted with flaps - concept (I) had no flaps

August-September 1936 study for a larger, trimotor passenger airliner with a crew of 3 carrying 18 passengers.

(III) - Low-winged trimotor, fixed/trousered main u/c
- (III): 3 x (various engine types),* span 25.00 m
-- * I-F K.14, Fiat A.80 RC, Piaggio P.XI RC.50

Undesignated CAB Bimotore a Grande Autonomia Project

(IV) - Twin-engined, long-range a/c, 2 x versions
- (IV): Fwd cockpit, mid-winged, retr. main u/c*
- (IV): 2 x Piaggio P.VII radials, span (below)
-- 2 x 460 hp P.VII C.16s or 470 hp P.VII C.35s
- (IV) 1st vers.: span 13.50 m, wing area 26 m2
-- Straight-tapered trapezoidal wing plan
- (IV) 2nd vers.: span 16.00 m, wing area 34 m2
-- Similar wing w/ constant-chord root extension
-- * Resemb. Blenheim but constant dihedral

Unknown/Undesignated Caproni Ca.135 Projects

Ca.135(?) - (Project) Alt. engine to Asso XI RC.40
-- 2 x 860 hp Isotta-Fraschini Asso XI RC.15 V-12s

Ca.135(?) - (Project) Alt. engine to Asso XI RC.40
-- 1937, 2 x French 910 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-21 V-12s

Ca.135(?) - (Project) Alt. engine to Asso XI RC.40
-- 1937, 2 x French 870 hp Gnome-Rhône 14Kirs 14-cyl.

Ca.135(?) - Alt. engine to Asso XI RC.40, 1 x conv.
-- Sept 1938 radial conv.of Ca.135 Asso MM.20922
-- Official request conv. to 2 x 780 hp A-R 126 RC.34 radials
-- Alfa-engined Ca.135 later conv. to prototype Ca.169 (qv)

Ca.135 bis (?) - (Project) July 1939 CAB study, Piaggio P.XII
- Ca.135 bis (?): 2 x 1,300 hp Piaggio P.XII RC.35 18-cyl.

Ca.135 bis (?) - (Project) Dec 1941 unarmed paratroop transp.
-- Study: Ca.135 bis conv. to carry 12 x paracadutisti
-- Trasporto paracadutisti usually desig. suffix 'P'

Unknown/Undesignated Caproni AP.1 Projects

(??) - (Project) 1936 re-engined AP.1 deriv.
-- (??): 1 x 870 hp Gnome-Rhone K14 radial
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11933.msg345580.html#msg345580

-- - (Project) 1937 re-engined AP.1 deriv.
-- (??): 1 x 910 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y V-12
-- (??): Full-canopy, Ca.308-style tail*
-- * Rounded rudder, elevator struts/wire
-- HS.12Y project matured as 1938 Ca.335
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11933.msg345580.html#msg345580

(??) - (Project) 1938 refined AP.1 develop't
-- (??): CAB AP.1 ricognitore armato (armed scout)
-- Added ventral observation/gun position
-- (??): 1 x 780 hp Alfa Romeo 126 RC.34
-- 2 x 7.7 or 12.7 mm + 1 x flex 7.7 mm*
-- * Flex gun movable to belly position
-- Abate, 1975, lists all guns as Scotti
-- (??): Full-canopy, refined tailplane**
-- ** Square-cut, no elevator bracings

(??) - (Project) 1938 dual-control AP.1 deriv.
-- (??): CAB AP.1 advanced/conversion trainer

(??) - AP.1 Idro,* twin-float vers. not delivered
-- 1941: 4 x AP.1 Idro all conv. for RA training
-- Poss. desig. 'Ca.308 Idro' but no evidence

Unknown/Undesignated Caproni PL.3/Ca.302 Projects

(??) - (Project) 1935 assault/strategic recce aircraft
-- As Ca.302 except for separate pilot/gunner cockpits

(??) - (Project) 193? high-altitude (~10,000 m) a/c
- PL.3 deriv., disting. by more compact canopy
-- PL.3 (alta quota): 1 x 550 hp Piaggio

Unknown/Undesignated Caproni PS.1/Ca.303 Projects

(??) - (Project) June 1934, shorter-fuselaged variant
-- 1 x Fiat A.70, span 11.00 m, fuselage length 6.90 m

(??) - (Project) 1934, alternative engine PS.1 variant
-- 1 x 130 hp Colombo S.63 air-cooled inverted 6-cyl.

(??) - (Project) Dec 1934, single-seat military vers.
-- 1 x Fiat A.70, 1 x synchronized mg in fuselage *
-- * Abate, 1975, says "cal. 7,6 mm", prob. 7.7 mm

(??) - (Project) Nov 1935, revised & updated 4-seater
-- 1 x 185-200 hp Walter Major 6, span 10.67 m

Unknown/Undesignated CAB Borea Projects

Ca.308(?) - Armed version for Ministero delle Colonie**
-- ** 1 x fuselage-mounted 7.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine gun

Ca.308(?) - (Project) Radial-engined variant
-- (??): No details

Unknown/Undesignated CAB Ghibli Projects

Here are the known but undesignated Ca.309 Ghibli development projects and studies. Some of these are new entries but some of these undesignated projects have been removed from the original Ca.309 listings.

Ca.309 (?) - Experimental twin-tail & rudder installation
-- Trapezoidal endplate fins & rudders test install.
-- Twin-tail Ghibli was photographed unmarked*
-- * Matricoli Militari number seems to be unrecorded

Ca.(?) - (Project) Ghibli military development
-- Metal fuselage, long raised canopy, twin tails
-- Rearward-retr. main u/c, spinners on props
-- Bomb bays for 400 kg vertically-stacked load
-- Def. armament: 3 x 7.7 mm (nose/dorsal/belly)
- 1st: Dec 1935, radials in NACA cowls, span 16.20 m
-- 2 x 400 hp Piaggio Stella 7-cyl radials
- 2nd: Jan/Feb 1936, inline engines variants
-- Jan 1936: 2 x 185 hp de Havilland Gipsy 6s
-- Feb 1936: 2 x 240 hp Renault 6Q Bengalis

Ca.(?) - (Project) 1936 single-engined Ghibli
- Several Ca.309-based single-engined projects
-- Ghibli-type wing with inward-retr. u/c
- 1st: 'Stella singula[/i', 'Piaggio S7' radial
-- Raised canopy, low fuselage deck, span 16.20 m
-- 2 x 400 hp Piaggio Stella (P.VII) 7-cyl
- 2nd: 'doppia Stella' ('Double Stella') [1]
-- Faster single-engined a/c for the recce role
-- Ghibli-style fuselage, dorsal gun turret*
-- * + flex. ventral gun fit mounted in belly hatch

Ca.309 - (Project) Military devel. w/ Piaggio radials
- 1st: Military devel.: Slimmer fuselage w/ ext. glazing*
- 2 x ?? hp Alfa-Romeo 115 inverted-6, trousered u/c
-- * Nose; tandem, stepped cockpit, mid-fuselage
- 2nd: Offset (portside) tandem cockpits, retr. u/c

Ca.(?) - (Project) 1939 'Ghibli meteorologico' (I)
- Single-engined 'Ghibli meteorologico' project
-- 1 x 500 hp Isotta-Fraschini Gamma V-12, span 16.40 m
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8743.msg345158.html#msg345158

Ca.(?) - (Project) 1939 'Ghibli meteorologico' (II)
- Twin-engined 'Ghibli meteorologico' project
-- 2 x I-F Gamma V-12 engines,* Ca.316-style nose
-- * In drawings, look more like IV-8s (Hirth HM 508s?)
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8743.msg345192.html#msg345192

Ca.(?) - (Project) 'Super Ghibli' 1940 devel.
-- 2 x 280 hp I-F Beta R.C.10, span 16.40 m
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8743.msg345158.html#msg345158

Ca.309 (?) - Experimental 20 mm cannon under-nose inst.
-- Swivelling gun-mount trialled on Ghibli MM.12366

Ca.(?) - (Project) Alt. engines military Ghibli
- 'Ghibli con Alfa 115 mod.' variant
- 1st: Military devel.: Slimmer fuselage w/ ext. glazing*
-- 2 x 200 hp Alfa-Romeo 115 inverted-6, trousered u/c
-- * Nose; tandem, stepped cockpit, mid-fuselage
- 2nd: Offset (portside) tandem cockpits, retr. u/c

Ca.(?) - (Project) Alternative engines Ghibli
- 'Ghibli con Piaggio S7' radial engines
-- 2 x 400 hp Piaggio Stella (P.VII) 7-cyl
-- To have rearward-retracting main u/c units
- Military vers.: Slimmer fuselage w/ gun positions*
-- * Under-nose, stepped cockpit, retr. belly pos.

Ca.(?) - (Project) Alternative engines Ghibli
-- 2 x 460 hp* Argus As 410A-1 air-cooled IV-12s
-- Standard Ca.309 other than engines, spatted u/c
-- * Abate, 1978, mislists As 410A-1 as '270 hp'

Ca.(?) - (Project) 1943 'aeroproiettile' pick-a-back
- Ca.309 carrying dorsal strut-mounted light a/c*
-- * Drawing show Nardi FN.305 with FN.315 mentioned
-- Meant to test 'Mistel'-style weapon potential
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3157.msg288589.html#msg288589

Ca.(?) - (Project) Postwar Ghibli variants
- 1946 Ca.309-based 6-passenger feederliner variant
- 1946 Noctural variant, 2 x A-R 115 6-cyl. engines
- 1946 Ca.309-based 8-passenger feederliner variant
- 1946 Ca.309, 2 x 445 hp Hirth HM.512B IV-12s

Unknown/Undesignated Caproni Ca.31x Projects

There was a wide range of Libeccio sub-types and descendants. Most of those designations are known. And obvious case where this is not the case is the shifting sub-types ordered (or planned to be ordered) by Britain before Italy's entry into WW2 on the Axis side.

British preferences shifted as Caproni offered or developed new sub-types. It may be that, in the resulting confusion, no dedicated sub-type designations were applied ... although sub-type suffixes seemed to have been applied to all other export customers for these types. For completeness, the shifting British orders were:

Ca.310(?) - 200 ordered by Britain for the RAF
-- The RAF intended to use Ca.310s as trainers

Ca.311(?) - 100* ordered by Britain for the RAF
-- * This was a replacement order for 200 x Ca.310s

Ca.313(?) - 300 ordered by Britain for the RAF
-- As with other Capronis for the RAF, none delivered

An export sub-type which almost certainly did receive a sub-type designation was the Ca.312 for Belgium. This potential order remained at the level of an expression of interest before Belgium fell. However, Caproni must have put design work into this specific sub-type since it was to have been a hybrid Ca.312bis airframe with a Ca.311M fuselage.

Ca.312(?) - Belgian interested in 24 x modified examples

Undesignated Ostro fighter studies

Ostro - (Project) 1935-1937 fighter studies
- Ostro: 4 x diff. single-seat fighters
- Ostro (I): Sept 1935 single-bay biplane
-- (I) : 1 x 820 hp I-F Asso XI RC, span 12.20 m
-- (I) : Eliptical wings, fixed and spatted u/c
-- (I) : Shoulder-mount upper wing, open cockpit
- Ostro (II): Aug 1936 low-winged monoplane
-- (II) : 1 x 835 hp I-F Asso XI RC, span 12.00 m
-- (II) : Rearwar, rotating retr. u/c, 2 x 12.7 mm
- Ostro (III): Dec 1936 low-winged monoplane
-- (III) : As II except for engine type/armament
-- (III) : 1 x 835 hp HS.12Ycdrs V-12, span 12.00 m
-- (III) : 20mm moteur canon (+ 2 x 12.7 mm ?)
- Ostro (IV): June 1937 low-winged monoplane
-- (II) : 1 x 835 hp I-F Asso XI RC, span 11.10 m
-- (II) : Double-taper wing form, squared tailplane

Other Undesignated/Unknown Designation Caproni Projects

Ca.164 - Several variants of 1938 2-seat biplane trainer
- Ca.164 ala ridotta: Reduced span version
-- * ala ridotta is more descriptive than desig.
- Ca.164 (?): 100 order for French Armée de l'Air**
-- Should reasonably be 'Ca.164F' but no evidence

Raffica - (Project) 19?? twin-engined bomber
- Raffica: 2 x Alfa-Romeo 135 radials
-- Presum. derived from 1938 Ca.320 trimotor bomber

(??) - (Project) Higher-powered Ca.331 assault deriv.
-- 2 x Fiat R.A.1050 RC.58-I Tifone, 1 x 37 mm gun

Ca.193 - Several variants of 1948-49 light transport
- (??): (Project) turboprop fighter-trainer
- (??): (Project) radar-equipped maritime patrol aircraft
- (??): (Project) 'Coloniale' style multi-purpose a/c

Ca.204 - Several variants of 4-engined long-range bomber
- Ca.204: 1938-39 for Bombardiere a Grande Raggio (BGR)
- Ca.204: Several versions w/ different engines/arrangements
-- Ca.204: (Project) 4 x 1,500 hp I-F Asso L.180 IRCC
-- Ca.204: (Project) 4 x 1,250 hp I-F Zeta R.C.42

Ca.211 - (Project) 1939 trimotor long-range bomber variant
- Ca.211(?) : (Project) Higher-speed (575 km/h top) variant
-- Re-submission for Bombardiere a Grande Raggio (BGR)

Ca.401 - Several variants of twin-engined recce-fighter
- (??): (Project) Mid-winged, wing-mounted radial engines
- (??): (Project) Vers. with engines buried in fuselage
- (??): (Project) Single fin/rudder vers., buried engine
-- Probably remained as undesignated Ca.401 studies

__________________________________________________________

[1] That 'doppia Stella' presumably refers to the Piaggio P.XI. That 2-row, 14-cylinder radial was derived from the French Gnome-Rhône 14K. Likewise, the single-row, 7-cylinder Stella was derived from the Gnome-Rhône 7K.

 

[boxkite]

I have just returned from the library where I was allowed to view the book

Caproni, Gianni:
Gli Aeroplani Caproni - Studi - Progetti - Realizzazioni dal 1908 al 1935
Publisher: Edizione del Museo Caproni, Milano, Italy, 1937

in the reading room. It was in a slightly desolate condition, so using a scanner was forbidden by itself. Here are some pictures I made in a hurry with the camera.
I apologize to @Apophenia that in this case I can not offer him more material from the book for the purpose of a more profound research. Second hand copies of the book can be found at bookfinder.com - for more than 150 € ... :-/

 

[archipeppe]

I have just returned from the library where I was allowed to view the book

Caproni, Gianni:
Gli Aeroplani Caproni - Studi - Progetti - Realizzazioni dal 1908 al 1935
Publisher: Edizione del Museo Caproni, Milano, Italy, 1937

in the reading room. It was in a slightly desolate condition, so using a scanner was forbidden by itself. Here are some pictures I made in a hurry with the camera.
I apologize to apophenia that in this case I can not offer him more material from the book for the purpose of a more profound research. Second hand copies of the book can be found at bookfinder.com - for more than 150 € ... :-/

Cooooool!!!

 

[Silencer1]

Caproni, Gianni:
Gli Aeroplani Caproni - Studi - Progetti - Realizzazioni dal 1908 al 1935
Publisher: Edizione del Museo Caproni, Milano, Italy, 1937

This book could be downloaded from this site http://www.avia-it.com/ - not a perfect quality, although, all pages in place

 

[hesham]

Yes,and I displayed all of its Projects in this thread
and began with post # 20 ;

Caproni early aircraft

Hi all, once again a question about Caproni... I don´t know project or not, but I search for pics or drawings of the following early Caproni aircraft Ca.52/Ca.54/Ca.55/Ca.78(sure project)/Ca.81(sure project)/Ca.88(real aircraft) and Ca.110(project). Thanks Maveric

www.secretprojects.co.uk

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks for that boxkite!

... Second hand copies of the book can be found at bookfinder.com - for more than 150 € ... :-/

Ouch!

 

[fredymac]

 

[Grey Havoc]

The Ca.60 Transaereo is mentioned in the article below:

When Giant Airplanes Ruled the Sky

The Great War triggered a trend toward big flying machines. Really big.

www.airspacemag.com

 

[juanT]

Hi
CA-150 https://www.delcampe.net/es/colecci...eliocopia-aereo-caproni-ca-150-776520926.html

 

[juanT]

CA-120 https://www.delcampe.net/es/colecci...eliocopia-aereo-caproni-ca-120-776526011.html

 

[juanT]

CA-165 https://www.delcampe.net/es/colecci...do-aereo-caproni-165-prototipo-776588240.html

 

[hesham]

Nice find dear Juan,

and Ca.380.

DISEGNI ORIGINALI AEREO CAPRONI CA 380 mai prodotto | Zu Kauf auf Delcampe

Ab 88,30 € – Kategorie: Andere Themen & Sammelgebiete > Transport > Kommerzielle Luftfahrt > Schnittbilder

www.delcampe.net

 

[hesham]

Nice find dear Juan,

and Ca.380.

DISEGNI ORIGINALI AEREO CAPRONI CA 380 mai prodotto | Zu Kauf auf Delcampe

Ab 88,30 € – Kategorie: Andere Themen & Sammelgebiete > Transport > Kommerzielle Luftfahrt > Schnittbilder

www.delcampe.net

 

[avion ancien]

I have just returned from the library where I was allowed to view the book

Caproni, Gianni:
Gli Aeroplani Caproni - Studi - Progetti - Realizzazioni dal 1908 al 1935
Publisher: Edizione del Museo Caproni, Milano, Italy, 1937

in the reading room. It was in a slightly desolate condition, so using a scanner was forbidden by itself. Here are some pictures I made in a hurry with the camera.
I apologize to @Apophenia that in this case I can not offer him more material from the book for the purpose of a more profound research. Second hand copies of the book can be found at bookfinder.com - for more than 150 € ... :-/

Having looked today, at the online booksellers, the going price now seems to have increased to a touch under 500 €. In view of that, I don't think that I'll bother asking Santa even to think about it!

 

[jwsleser]

Good day

I am currently completing my book on the paracadutisti italiani, Infantrymen of the Air. During my research, I recently came across a mention of the Ca 180 in Pignato's and Cappellano's Gli veicoli da combattimento dell'esercito italiano vol. secondo p.242. The mention is only two sentences, "The problem of airlifting the M tank was addressed, but not solved. In fact, the Caproni CA 180 transport aircraft did not go beyond the concept." The authors did include a drawing of the aircraft on p.281.


Unfortunately the authors did not footnote/cite the source of their information. I am hoping that someone here on this forum can offer some additional information. My search of this site, however, has come up empty. I am hoping to discover the date that this research was initiated.

The M13 series of tanks entered service in 1940, so I am assuming that this concept was initiated sometime in 1941. Work to transport a L3 series vehicles using a SM.82 was started in 1940 and successfully demonstrated in 1941. It is likely that this effort with the M13 tank was in support of the development of a divisione aviotrasportabile that was started in 1939 and resulted in the creation of the 80º divisione avio. «La Spezia».

Thank you for assistance.

Pista! Jeff

 

[hesham]

Welcome aboard Jeff,

and amazing find,but unfortunately no Info,except the Ca.179 of 1940/41
was also intended as transport aircraft project,powered by four engines,
may it nearly likes this one as I remember ?.

 

[jwsleser]

Thank you hesham. The similarity to the Ca 179 project could be interesting. Alas it too lacks any information that I can find.

Pista! Jeff

 

[hesham]

C.V.4 - [??]

May it was a single seat fighter trainer project,iit was powered by one 350 hp
Isotta Fraschini Gamma engine,low proplution motor,intended to compete
Breda Ba.204.

 

[hesham]

C.V.5 - (??)

C.V.6 - (??)

I think they are the rest of series,here;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/italian-dive-bomber-projects.17595/

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks hesham. So, you're speculating that the Sagittario/Arciere concepts were assigned those C.V.5 and C.V.6 designations?

 

[hesham]

Yes my dear Apophenia.

 

[Maveric]

Another attempt: Are there any photos or drawings of ca.15, ca.24, ca.88 and ca.110?

 

[hesham]

Another attempt: Are there any photos or drawings of ca.15, ca.24, ca.88 and ca.110?

Nothing in this book ?.