Caproni aircraft designations
- Thread starter hesham
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Maveric said:
My dear Maveric,
you forget the Ca.81,and Ca.87 was transatlantic aircraft as in
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/flyboat/ca87.html
may be you meant that;
Ca.81 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.84 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.85 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.86 Bomber 1929
Am I right or not?.
lucamax
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Hi,
Few days ago I visited the "Museo dell'Aeronautica Caproni" (Caproni's Aeronautical Museum) in Trento. I took some pictures of many wooden models of projects that were completely without identification: I put some of the photos I took in the hope that we can at least give a name to the models!
I hope you like!
Few days ago I visited the "Museo dell'Aeronautica Caproni" (Caproni's Aeronautical Museum) in Trento. I took some pictures of many wooden models of projects that were completely without identification: I put some of the photos I took in the hope that we can at least give a name to the models!
I hope you like!
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Avimimus
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Now that is a lovely design (Ca.150) - Is there any more information about it?
(I always loved this particular engine configuration - and wondered if you could shut down one of the engines to increase range and make up for the added weight...)
(I always loved this particular engine configuration - and wondered if you could shut down one of the engines to increase range and make up for the added weight...)
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Obviously we need a separate Caproni Vizzola designation list. 
I'm postulating that an almost uninterrupted numerical sequence can be made of Caproni Vizzola designations (until the gap between the C-22J and the 'zwilling' A41). However, even if true, there is one anomoly -- the Caproni Vizzola MF.
[Update: Hesham's C.V.7 shows that a sequences cannot be made with Caproni Vizzola designations.]
The MF is listed by j2mcl Planeurs (http://www.j2mcl-planeurs.net/) as a single-seat training glider with a 14 metre span. Only 1 MF was built in 1938. The MF is attributed to Caproni Vizzola & Gruppo Tommaso dal Molin. Design was by Carlo Ferrarin and Livio Sonzio (who also designed the C.V. 1° and C.V. 2° sailplanes).
There is also a cryptic mention in Golden Wings of a "Vizzola glider" (I-ABNY at Varese 30.04.40). So, was this MF glider registered at I-ANBY (or was that reg for the C.V. 1° or one of the four unaccounted-for C.V. 2°s)? Alternatively, was MF an alternative designation for either the C.V. 1° or C.V. 2°?
Then there are questions of Caproni Vizzola designation style. Why was Caproni Vizzola the sole Caproni company not required to use 3-digit designations? And what did the prefix letters stand for? Here is a guess:
C.V. - Obvious stood simply for Caproni Vizzola
A -- Probably just stood for alianti (glider)
F - Stood for designer, ing. Fabrizio Fabrizi
C - Stood for Caproni (Caproni Vizzola being the sole survivor)
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Caproni Vizzola Alpha-Numerical Designations
C.V.1 - single-seat parasol sailplane w/o canopy, 1 built (c/n 1?), 1937(?)
- C.V.1: Usually referred to simply as the Caproni Vizzola 1°
C.V.2 - single-seat parasol sailplane with canopy, 14 m span, 6 built, 1938-
- C.V.1: Usually referred to simply as the Caproni Vizzola 2°, (c/n 2-6)
-- Caproni Vizzola 2°: c/n 2 (I-ABKX), c/n 3 (I-RENI)
C.V.3 - (Project) single-seat biplane aerobatic trainer; spatted main u/c
- C.V.3 : 1 x Isotta Fraschini Beta 6-cyl inline (?); span 10.71 m
- C.V.3: In competition with Ba.92, Ca.214, Ca.602, CANSA FC.11, & IMAM Ro.71
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-vizzola-cv-series.44671/#post-722525
C.V.4 - (Project) 1940 single-seat monoplane fighter aircraft
- C.V.4 : Low-winged monoplane with retractable main u/c
- C.V.4 : 1 x 1,175 hp Daimler Benz DB 601A IV-12; span (??)
-- C.V.4 design is almost certainly related to Fabrizi's F.4 fighter
-- Previously reported with 350 hp IF Gamma as fighter-trainer*
-- * If at all accurate; parallel to later F.5 Gamma development
C.V.5 - (Project) biplane aerobatic trainer; enlarged C.V.3/C.V.7
- C.V.5 : Few details but approximately 130% the size of C.V.7
- C.V.5 : 1 x (??) hp (??) inline engine;* span 10.00 m
-- * Being larger than the C.V.7, possibly an IF Gamma IV-12?
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-vizzola-cv-series.44671/#post-722586
C.V.6 - (Project) 1940 2-seat, twin-engined monoplane fighter; twin tails
- C.V.6 : Close-coupled back-to-back crew; leading edge radiator intakes
- C.V.6 : 2 x 1,175 hp Daimler Benz DB 601A IV-12s;* span (??) m
-- * Presumably Alfa Romeo R.A.1000 R.C.44 intended for prod'n type
C.V.7 - (Project) 1940 2-seat biplane trainer; single- or 2-seat vers. studied
- C.V.7 : 1 x 300 hp Isotta Fraschini Beta R.C.10-I; span 7.70 m
--https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-vizzola-cv-series.44671/#post-722529
________________________________________________________________________________
F.4-F.7 Series - Single-seat, single-engine fighters, design begun 1937-38
F.4 - Mixed-construction (wood wing, steel-tube fuselage), inline engine
- F.4: Init., 959 hp Isotta-Fraschini Asso 121 R.C.40, construction halted
- F.4: As completed, 1,175 hp DB 601, 1 prototype built, flown July 1940
F.5 - Parallel design to F.4 with radial engine, prototype flew Feb 1939
- F.5: 870 hp Fiat A.74 R.C. 38, prototype + pre-production a/c, 13 built
- F.5bis: 1.175 hp Alfa Romeo R.A.1000 R.C.44-la Monsonie, 1 x F.5 conv.
- F.5 Gamma: [Project] 1-/2-seat advanced trainer, 540 hp IF Gamma R.C.35 IS
F.6 - Revised Caproni Vizzola F.4 fighter design with fully-metal structure
- F.6M: 1,175 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A, 1 prototype built, flown Sept 1941
-- F.6M: 'M' for Metallico (to indicate the shift to all-metal construction)
- F.6Z: 1,250 hp Isotta-Fraschini R.C.25/60 Zeta, 1 prototype, flown Sept 1941
-- F.6Z: 'Z' for Zeta, X-24 engine expected to produce 1,500 hp, aka F.6MZ
F.7 - (Project) Revised F.6M, 1 x 1,475 hp Fiat RA.1050 R.C.58 Tifone
- F.7: F.6 wing, longer fuselage and new engine
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2472.msg20609.html#msg20609
Calif series sailplanes (design by Carlo Ferrarin & Livio Sonzio, 1969- )
A10 - single-seat sailplane, 1969, 1 built
A11 - (??)
A12 - single-seat sailplane, 1970 (?), 2 built
A13 - (??)
A14 - single-seat sailplane, 1 built
A15 - single-seat sailplane, 1 built (I-VIZA, Museo Gianni Caproni)
A16 - A19 (??)
A20 - single-seat sailplane, 1972
- A20S: 2-seat derivative of the A20 sailplane
A21: two-seat deriv. of 'monoposto' A14, metal/fiberglass, 1970
- A21: two-seat derivative of A14 sailplane, 20.36 m span
- A21S: refined production version of A21 2-seat sailplane, 1970, x 53
-- - TG-12A: single A21S Calif used by USAF Test Pilot School
- A21J: jet A21, 220 lb, low-mounted SERMEL TR18, 5 built, 1972
-- A21J No 1: research a/c mod. by Lockheed/MSU, high-mounted jet
- A21SJ: jet-powered A21S, revised higher position Mictroturbo TRS18
-- last produced s/n 257
- A21SJA: (Unofficial desig.) Rebuild from A21S/'SJ parts, TRS18-046-1
-- A21SJA: 1 x conversion (VH-GCM) in June 2000
C22J - Ventura, 2-seat trainer, 2 x Microturbo TRS18-1, 2 built, 1980
- C22J: 2 x prototypes (I-CAVT c/n 001 and I-GIAC c/n 002)
- C22R: (Project) reconnaissance variant of C22J
A41: (Project) Gemello, twin-fuselage (A21 Calif) four-seater
Undesignated Caproni Vizzola Projects
MCT (Monoposto Caccia Trigona) - (Project) 194? single-engined heavy fighter
-- Alfa Romeo 101, German DB 605 or Reggiane L.105 engine behind pilot
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3291.msg26796.html#msg26796
Sagittario - (Project) March 1943 single-engined fighter-bomber aircraft
- Sagittario: Also high-altitude fighter w/ exhaust gas turbocompressor (DB 605D)
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17595.msg167623.html#msg167623
[Update: Hesham's C.V.7 shows that a sequences cannot be made with Caproni Vizzola designations.]
The MF is listed by j2mcl Planeurs (http://www.j2mcl-planeurs.net/) as a single-seat training glider with a 14 metre span. Only 1 MF was built in 1938. The MF is attributed to Caproni Vizzola & Gruppo Tommaso dal Molin. Design was by Carlo Ferrarin and Livio Sonzio (who also designed the C.V. 1° and C.V. 2° sailplanes).
There is also a cryptic mention in Golden Wings of a "Vizzola glider" (I-ABNY at Varese 30.04.40). So, was this MF glider registered at I-ANBY (or was that reg for the C.V. 1° or one of the four unaccounted-for C.V. 2°s)? Alternatively, was MF an alternative designation for either the C.V. 1° or C.V. 2°?
Then there are questions of Caproni Vizzola designation style. Why was Caproni Vizzola the sole Caproni company not required to use 3-digit designations? And what did the prefix letters stand for? Here is a guess:
C.V. - Obvious stood simply for Caproni Vizzola
A -- Probably just stood for alianti (glider)
F - Stood for designer, ing. Fabrizio Fabrizi
C - Stood for Caproni (Caproni Vizzola being the sole survivor)
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Caproni Vizzola Alpha-Numerical Designations
C.V.1 - single-seat parasol sailplane w/o canopy, 1 built (c/n 1?), 1937(?)
- C.V.1: Usually referred to simply as the Caproni Vizzola 1°
C.V.2 - single-seat parasol sailplane with canopy, 14 m span, 6 built, 1938-
- C.V.1: Usually referred to simply as the Caproni Vizzola 2°, (c/n 2-6)
-- Caproni Vizzola 2°: c/n 2 (I-ABKX), c/n 3 (I-RENI)
C.V.3 - (Project) single-seat biplane aerobatic trainer; spatted main u/c
- C.V.3 : 1 x Isotta Fraschini Beta 6-cyl inline (?); span 10.71 m
- C.V.3: In competition with Ba.92, Ca.214, Ca.602, CANSA FC.11, & IMAM Ro.71
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-vizzola-cv-series.44671/#post-722525
C.V.4 - (Project) 1940 single-seat monoplane fighter aircraft
- C.V.4 : Low-winged monoplane with retractable main u/c
- C.V.4 : 1 x 1,175 hp Daimler Benz DB 601A IV-12; span (??)
-- C.V.4 design is almost certainly related to Fabrizi's F.4 fighter
-- Previously reported with 350 hp IF Gamma as fighter-trainer*
-- * If at all accurate; parallel to later F.5 Gamma development
C.V.5 - (Project) biplane aerobatic trainer; enlarged C.V.3/C.V.7
- C.V.5 : Few details but approximately 130% the size of C.V.7
- C.V.5 : 1 x (??) hp (??) inline engine;* span 10.00 m
-- * Being larger than the C.V.7, possibly an IF Gamma IV-12?
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-vizzola-cv-series.44671/#post-722586
C.V.6 - (Project) 1940 2-seat, twin-engined monoplane fighter; twin tails
- C.V.6 : Close-coupled back-to-back crew; leading edge radiator intakes
- C.V.6 : 2 x 1,175 hp Daimler Benz DB 601A IV-12s;* span (??) m
-- * Presumably Alfa Romeo R.A.1000 R.C.44 intended for prod'n type
C.V.7 - (Project) 1940 2-seat biplane trainer; single- or 2-seat vers. studied
- C.V.7 : 1 x 300 hp Isotta Fraschini Beta R.C.10-I; span 7.70 m
--https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-vizzola-cv-series.44671/#post-722529
________________________________________________________________________________
F.4-F.7 Series - Single-seat, single-engine fighters, design begun 1937-38
F.4 - Mixed-construction (wood wing, steel-tube fuselage), inline engine
- F.4: Init., 959 hp Isotta-Fraschini Asso 121 R.C.40, construction halted
- F.4: As completed, 1,175 hp DB 601, 1 prototype built, flown July 1940
F.5 - Parallel design to F.4 with radial engine, prototype flew Feb 1939
- F.5: 870 hp Fiat A.74 R.C. 38, prototype + pre-production a/c, 13 built
- F.5bis: 1.175 hp Alfa Romeo R.A.1000 R.C.44-la Monsonie, 1 x F.5 conv.
- F.5 Gamma: [Project] 1-/2-seat advanced trainer, 540 hp IF Gamma R.C.35 IS
F.6 - Revised Caproni Vizzola F.4 fighter design with fully-metal structure
- F.6M: 1,175 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A, 1 prototype built, flown Sept 1941
-- F.6M: 'M' for Metallico (to indicate the shift to all-metal construction)
- F.6Z: 1,250 hp Isotta-Fraschini R.C.25/60 Zeta, 1 prototype, flown Sept 1941
-- F.6Z: 'Z' for Zeta, X-24 engine expected to produce 1,500 hp, aka F.6MZ
F.7 - (Project) Revised F.6M, 1 x 1,475 hp Fiat RA.1050 R.C.58 Tifone
- F.7: F.6 wing, longer fuselage and new engine
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2472.msg20609.html#msg20609
Calif series sailplanes (design by Carlo Ferrarin & Livio Sonzio, 1969- )
A10 - single-seat sailplane, 1969, 1 built
A11 - (??)
A12 - single-seat sailplane, 1970 (?), 2 built
A13 - (??)
A14 - single-seat sailplane, 1 built
A15 - single-seat sailplane, 1 built (I-VIZA, Museo Gianni Caproni)
A16 - A19 (??)
A20 - single-seat sailplane, 1972
- A20S: 2-seat derivative of the A20 sailplane
A21: two-seat deriv. of 'monoposto' A14, metal/fiberglass, 1970
- A21: two-seat derivative of A14 sailplane, 20.36 m span
- A21S: refined production version of A21 2-seat sailplane, 1970, x 53
-- - TG-12A: single A21S Calif used by USAF Test Pilot School
- A21J: jet A21, 220 lb, low-mounted SERMEL TR18, 5 built, 1972
-- A21J No 1: research a/c mod. by Lockheed/MSU, high-mounted jet
- A21SJ: jet-powered A21S, revised higher position Mictroturbo TRS18
-- last produced s/n 257
- A21SJA: (Unofficial desig.) Rebuild from A21S/'SJ parts, TRS18-046-1
-- A21SJA: 1 x conversion (VH-GCM) in June 2000
C22J - Ventura, 2-seat trainer, 2 x Microturbo TRS18-1, 2 built, 1980
- C22J: 2 x prototypes (I-CAVT c/n 001 and I-GIAC c/n 002)
- C22R: (Project) reconnaissance variant of C22J
A41: (Project) Gemello, twin-fuselage (A21 Calif) four-seater
Undesignated Caproni Vizzola Projects
MCT (Monoposto Caccia Trigona) - (Project) 194? single-engined heavy fighter
-- Alfa Romeo 101, German DB 605 or Reggiane L.105 engine behind pilot
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3291.msg26796.html#msg26796
Sagittario - (Project) March 1943 single-engined fighter-bomber aircraft
- Sagittario: Also high-altitude fighter w/ exhaust gas turbocompressor (DB 605D)
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17595.msg167623.html#msg167623
Last edited:
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Hi,
Ca.175 was a single seat high performance fighter project
Ca.605 was single seat biplane project
Ca.606 was two seat biplane project
http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/storiaTradizione/ufficioStorico/Documents/documenti/Direzione%20Costruzioni%20Aeronautiche.pdf
Ca.175 was a single seat high performance fighter project
Ca.605 was single seat biplane project
Ca.606 was two seat biplane project
http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/storiaTradizione/ufficioStorico/Documents/documenti/Direzione%20Costruzioni%20Aeronautiche.pdf
Jan den Das
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Concerning the Kaproni Bulgaria.
I found on a Yugoslavian site that the KB-9 Bekas (projects) would be a replacement of the KB-6 (KB-309) Papagal.
It could be armament but also for civil use.
They could not give me further information than the folow:
Specifications
Crew: 2
Passengers: 4
Length: 44.3 ft (13.5 m)
Wingspan: 59 ft (18 m)
Height: 13 ft (4 m)
Wing area: 484.4 ft² (45 m²)
Empty weight: 5,512 lb (2,500 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 8,598 lb (3,900 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Argus As 410 inverted V-12, 450hp each
Performance
Maximum speed: 210 mph (338 kph)
Range: 800 mi (1,287 km)
Service ceiling: 20,000 ft (6,096 m)
Armament
- 1 × .30cal MG
- 150kg bombs
Who knows/has more about this project?
Jan
I found on a Yugoslavian site that the KB-9 Bekas (projects) would be a replacement of the KB-6 (KB-309) Papagal.
It could be armament but also for civil use.
They could not give me further information than the folow:
Specifications
Crew: 2
Passengers: 4
Length: 44.3 ft (13.5 m)
Wingspan: 59 ft (18 m)
Height: 13 ft (4 m)
Wing area: 484.4 ft² (45 m²)
Empty weight: 5,512 lb (2,500 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 8,598 lb (3,900 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Argus As 410 inverted V-12, 450hp each
Performance
Maximum speed: 210 mph (338 kph)
Range: 800 mi (1,287 km)
Service ceiling: 20,000 ft (6,096 m)
Armament
- 1 × .30cal MG
- 150kg bombs
Who knows/has more about this project?
Jan
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alemilb
I really should change my personal text
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hesham said:
The Ca.702 seems to have been a product of the Fábrica Nacional de Aviones Caproni Peruana.
Libeccio, a forum member at Stormo!, asked about the Ca.702. His unlisted source said that "work had been started [on] a batch of Ca.702 'advanced trainers', however, war in Europe began and all further work was suspended, the airframes being scrapped."
http://stormomagazine.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=83&sid=f23baf75d173f2be9d31c776bdfd3eaa
So Ca.702 assembly had began at FNA Caproni Peruana (co-located at CAP's Base Aérea Las Palmas, Lima) but never completed. That raises the question: What did the Cuerpo Aeronáutico del Perú use as advanced trainers instead? (The CAP Ca.114 fighters didn't become trainers until after WW2.)
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I suppose we could add it ... but to what sequence? I can find no mention of a Caproni Ca.700 or Ca.701. And Libeccio's query is the only online reference to the Ca.702 that I could find (other than as the matricola of a WWI Ca.3 bomber) ???
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