Canada Future fighter capability project (ex-Next Generation Fighter Capability)

[Arjen]

F35 makes sense in more ways than one vis a vis gripen..... One thing to note is the multiple countries from where Gripen is actually sourced from. Must be a headache for maintenance and logistics.

F-35 parts production is spread over several countries.

F-35 Global Partnership

The F-35 Global Partnership

www.lockheedmartin.com

Wiki cites eight level 1/2/3 global partners, Lockheed Martin's global partners map additionally shows Japan, South Korea and Israel as supplier countries. That map also shows Turkey, which is set to produce some parts until 2022.

 

[riggerrob]

Ottawa is not in the habit of making quick decisions when it come sot weapons. They just spent a few billion dollars to update the CF-18A fleet for the next decade.

As for why Ottawa is finally talking about fighters with enough range to defend our high arctic ... with global warming and arctic ice melting, the Northwest Passage will soon be navigable for ships from dozens of countries.
Heck! Even Communist China claims "observer" status to Artic conferences.
The difficult part of defending Canada's high arctic is stationing white men (European ancestry) in the high arctic. Few white men enjoy those long winter nights. Also supplying them with be prohibitively expensive.
Hint: I spent a summer at CFS Alert ... doing construction work.

would it be easier to station local people there who are used to those long winters.. say locals of Nunavut?
I dont know how Canada works, but in the US the national guard tends to be comprised mostly of locals of the state they represent.

Northern Canada is very sparsely populated more than a few hundred kilometers north of the US border (49th parallel). The main military presence is a few hundred Canadian Arctic Rangers. They are Inuit and Cree who's ancestors have lived on the land for thousands of years. They are traditional hunter-gatherers who depend upon fishing, sealing, hunting cariboo, etc. Their "sovereignty patrols" are along their traditional trap lines and seasonal hunting migrations. They were armed with WW2 surplus, .303 Lee-Enfield rifles until recently. Now they carry 7.62 x 51 mm Sako bolt-action rifles. They also train with both regular and reserves army soldiers from the south. When I went on a Canadian Army Reserve hiking trip - during 1975 - we were assisted by a pair of Canadian Arctic Rangers who showed us edible plants and killed a handful of Arctic Hare for us to cook and eat. Only natives are allowed to hunt in the Canadian high arctic due to sparse wildlife. I learned tremendous respect fro those guys who could scrape out a living in a land that would freeze and starve white-men in a few days.
Inuit also have a reputation for being talented mechanics who can keep their snow-mobiles running despite shortages of spare parts.
Only small numbers of natives (Iroquois, Migmaw, Cree, Algonquin, Dene, Inuit, etc.) join the Canadian Armed Forces, partly because they only represent a tiny percentage of the Canadian population.

 

[perttime]

Ottawa is not in the habit of making quick decisions when it come sot weapons. They just spent a few billion dollars to update the CF-18A fleet for the next decade.

As for why Ottawa is finally talking about fighters with enough range to defend our high arctic ... with global warming and arctic ice melting, the Northwest Passage will soon be navigable for ships from dozens of countries.
Heck! Even Communist China claims "observer" status to Artic conferences.
The difficult part of defending Canada's high arctic is stationing white men (European ancestry) in the high arctic. Few white men enjoy those long winter nights. Also supplying them with be prohibitively expensive.
Hint: I spent a summer at CFS Alert ... doing construction work.

would it be easier to station local people there who are used to those long winters.. say locals of Nunavut?
I dont know how Canada works, but in the US the national guard tends to be comprised mostly of locals of the state they represent.

Northern Canada is very sparsely populated more than a few hundred kilometers north of the US border (49th parallel). The main military presence is a few hundred Canadian Arctic Rangers. They are Inuit and Cree who's ancestors have lived on the land for thousands of years. They are traditional hunter-gatherers who depend upon fishing, sealing, hunting cariboo, etc. Their "sovereignty patrols" are along their traditional trap lines and seasonal hunting migrations. They were armed with WW2 surplus, .303 Lee-Enfield rifles until recently. Now they carry 7.62 x 51 mm Sako bolt-action rifles. ...

Tikka bolt action rifles, actually. Manufactured by Colt Canada under license.

Winter Is Here: The Canadian Rangers’ Tikka T3x Arctic Rifle

The quasi-military Canadian Rangers are entirely unique to the North American continent, tracing their history back to the WWII Pacific

www.tactical-life.com

 

[Cjc]

going off topic by why US ( Lockheed) doesnt introduce a 'wattered down' version of the F-22 for export (with F100-110 engines px) like the old F-16/79 project? Most off the closest allies really need a twin engined air-superiority aircraft.

Because it would have cost $1-2 billion just to develop an F-22 without the sensitive technology onboard that the USA didn’t want exported. The issue wasn’t the engines but structures and systems onboard that would reveal how to make certain technologies that the USA did not want revealed. Further the ‘closest allies don’t really need twin engine air-superiority aircraft they need a high survivability, high lethality networked strike fighter. The F-35 will provide this capability which is why everyone is buying it.

Well our allies (looking at you isreal) didn't exactly make it esey to argue that they wouldn't gust hand over the tech to the Russians/Chinese. Before (and after the f-35 has better tech then the f-22) the US had no issue selling full up f-4, f-14,f-15,f-16 all of wich were barely in the us wheel house when they were sold over seas.

 

[riggerrob]

Ottawa is not in the habit of making quick decisions when it come sot weapons. They just spent a few billion dollars to update the CF-18A fleet for the next decade.

As for why Ottawa is finally talking about fighters with enough range to defend our high arctic ... with global warming and arctic ice melting, the Northwest Passage will soon be navigable for ships from dozens of countries.
Heck! Even Communist China claims "observer" status to Artic conferences.
The difficult part of defending Canada's high arctic is stationing white men (European ancestry) in the high arctic. Few white men enjoy those long winter nights. Also supplying them with be prohibitively expensive.
Hint: I spent a summer at CFS Alert ... doing construction work.

would it be easier to station local people there who are used to those long winters.. say locals of Nunavut?
I dont know how Canada works, but in the US the national guard tends to be comprised mostly of locals of the state they represent.

Canada does not have a National Guard.
However, our Army Reserve and Naval Reserve serve similar roles as American Reservists.
We used to have RCAF Reserve squadrons, but they were too expensive to equip unless serving alongside a Regular Air Force Squadron flying the same type of aircraft. Regular technicians did all the major maintenance and reserve pilots just "borrowed" aircraft to fly during weekends.
Most major cities in Canada have an old brick armory used by a reserve regiment or three. Traditionally Canadian Reservists are high school or college students who need a part-time job to finance their studies. Reserve ranks are often bolstered by former Regular soldiers and sailors who now only want to sail part time. Most Canadian Reservists only parade only 1 or 2 evenings per week and 1 weekend per month. The more ambitious reservists try to attend summer courses that last a month or two. Reservists are usually equipped with last-week's-fashion of weapons and vehicles. This mean zero conversion training for former Regular soldiers and a reservist can carry a single model of rifle for his/her entire service.
Since the Cold War, more and more Canadian reservists attend Regular Army courses which allow them to be quickly contracted to fill the ranks of regular regiments assigned to NATO or UN missions. Few Canadian Army regiments are kept up to full strength during peace time, so they scramble to integrate reservists whenever assigned a mission overseas.
OTOH reservists are often called-out to deal with local disasters (Aid to Civilian Powers) like fires, riots and mud-slides.

 

[siegecrossbow]

A bit of a tangent but Slovakia recently leaked the specs of the Gripen C in comparison with F-16 block 70. I don’t think it is competitive with the F-35.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

A bit of a tangent but Slovakia recently leaked the specs of the Gripen C in comparison with F-16 block 70. I don’t think it is competitive with the F-35.

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To be very honest with you, this "leak" seems like a LM sales pitch, be it as their response to RFI or for actual marketing purposes. Also, the Gripen that is touted as F-35 competitor is 39E/F not C.

 

[apparition13]

The block 70 has 1500kg more internal fuel than block 50? How?

Well I suppose if you count CFTs as internal, but wouldn't that affect the performance figures as well?

And the combat range for the F-16 is straight off wikipedia, which is for 2 Sidewinders, 2 amraams, and 3 fuel tanks, but no CFTs. If internal counts CFTs, why doesn't the range include them?

 

[siegecrossbow]

The block 70 has 1500kg more internal fuel than block 50? How?

Well I suppose if you count CFTs as internal, but wouldn't that affect the performance figures as well?

And the combat range for the F-16 is straight off wikipedia, which is for 2 Sidewinders, 2 amraams, and 3 fuel tanks, but no CFTs. If internal counts CFTs, why doesn't the range include them?

It includes CFT. This is why the climb rate is only 235 m/s.

 

[eagle]

A bit of a tangent but Slovakia recently leaked the specs of the Gripen C in comparison with F-16 block 70. I don’t think it is competitive with the F-35.

Those are not "leaked specs". Unless by leaked specs you mean a heavily biased compendium based on wikipedia numbers. It looks like a brief for clueless politicians or media.

It includes CFT. This is why the climb rate is only 235 m/s.

The climb rate stated is 50k feet/minute. That's the number given for initial climb rate at sea level for an F-16 without CFTs.

Btw. internal fuel with CFTs should be 10172 lbs or 4618 kg.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Those are not "leaked specs". Unless by leaked specs you mean a heavily biased compendium based on wikipedia numbers. It looks like a brief for clueless politicians or media.


The climb rate stated is 50k feet/minute. That's the number given for initial climb rate at sea level for an F-16 without CFTs.

Btw. internal fuel with CFTs should be 10172 lbs or 4618 kg.

Indeed. I concede that Slovakian military probably wanted to paint their selection of F-16 in a good light.