Canada’s FFLIT (Future Fighter Lead In Trainer)

[Devin]

I thought I’d start a thread for discussing Canada’s FFLIT (Future Fighter Lead In Trainer). Perhaps not an overly exciting project but one that could provide some interesting speculation till we get some hard answers. I couldn't find anything on this but if it exists please delete.

CAE has been identified by Canada as a strategic partner for FFLIT. CAE is also a partner in SkyAlyne which was selected for the FAcT training program with a whole raft of new training aircraft for the RCAF. These aircraft include 23 Grob 120Tp, 19 PC-21, 19 H135, 7 King Air 260’s and 3 DHC-8-400.

Previously Canada operated 22 CT-155 Hawk trainers for advanced training/ LIFT. I’m not sure if Canada intends to change the mix when it comes to advanced trainers/ LIFT keeping in mind that the PC-21 is quite capable at advanced training. This may offload some of the training from the LFT fleet resulting in lesser numbers than the Hawks.


The obvious contenders would be:


T-7A Redhawk – Aircraft is not yet in service which may work against it.

T-50 – In service with multiple users including NATO member Poland.

M-346 – In use with multiple users including several NATO users.

FFLIT program: Canada selects CAE as partner to work with RCAF

CAE identified as strategic partner to Canada to work with RCAF to design and co-develop the Future Fighter Lead-in Training (FFLIT) program.

canadiandefencereview.com

 

[robunos]

In the current situation, I would think that the T-7 would be the political choice . . .

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Arjen]

In June 2017, during DJT's first term, Canada became less than amenable to US demands when combined anti-dumping and anti-subsidy duties were announced.

In October 2017, for CAD$ 1, Bombardier sold its 50.1% stake in the CSeries program to Airbus.

In December 2017, combined anti-dumping and anti-subsidy duties totaling 292 percent on Bombardier CSeries airliners were imposed by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross.

In January 2018, those duties were rejected by the US independent trade panel:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/26/boeing-trade-petition-bombardier-jets-372331

The CSeries was rebranded as Airbus A220.
So far, over 900 A220s have been ordered,, nearly 400 have been delivered.

Let's just wait and see.

 

[GTX]

Has anyone seen the actual SOW for the program or at least the key elements?

 

[scorp]

Leonardo had proposed M-345 (not -346) few years ago, but this aircraft's sales prospects now seem dim (everywhere).

 

[Avimimus]

In the current situation, I would think that the T-7 would be the political choice . . .

cheers,
Robin.

It might have to be sold through SAAB though.

 

[Apophenia]

Has anyone seen the actual SOW for the program or at least the key elements?

In theory, FFLIT has only just passed its RFI stage (amended to close 31 Dec 2024 from original 28 Aug 2024). In other words, the FFLIT Project is already lagging behind its 2021 deadlines. [1] And, perhaps, that is why so much public fuss is being made over selecting the only plausible candidate for project advisors?

Project requirements will be partially revealed once we get to the RfP stage (although, as contracted services are a part of FFLIT, there will be contractor performance-related SOWs later as well). In the meantime, probably only DAR 5 personnel are privy to the technical requirement details. (As the folks responsible for both fighter- and trainer-related issues, I'd say that the Directorate of Air Requirements 5 is particularly well-suited to dealing with FFLIT.)
________________________________

[1] When the FFLIT Project was announced in 2021, it was anticipated that options analysis and the definition phase would be underway by 2023/2024. At this rate, I can't see FFLIT Implementation beginning on schedule by sometime next year.

 

[Scott Kenny]

If they really need it soon, I'd expect T-50s.

 

[helmutkohl]

Leonardo had proposed M-345 (not -346) few years ago, but this aircraft's sales prospects now seem dim (everywhere).

there doesn't seem to be a market for jet powered basic trainers. Looks like a number of air forces, if they have the funding, a turboprop basic trainer and a jet advance trainer.

for Canada, I guess it largely depends on when the decision will be made. Right now the T-7A is at a disadvantage due to tensions between the US and Canada. Could be a two way race between the T-50 and the M-346.