Buy more foreign weapons to save money, Armed Forces told

[Apophenia]

...returning as part of the MPF programme...

Obviously a typo but should read 'MFP programme'. A minor point but, otherwise, the UK Mobile Fires Platform (MFP) programme could get confused with the US Army's Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program.

 

[Scott Kenny]

...returning as part of the MPF programme...

Obviously a typo but should read 'MFP programme'. A minor point but, otherwise, the UK Mobile Fires Platform (MFP) programme could get confused with the US Army's Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program.

MFP is the AS90 replacement or upgrade then?

 

[Apophenia]

MFP is the AS90 replacement or upgrade then?

MFP is to be a complete AS90 replacement.
-- https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...k-accelerates-mobile-fires-platform-programme

Janes identified potential Mobile Fires Platform (MFP) competitors as:

- K9A2 Thunder from Hanwha with local partner Lockheed Martin UK

- RCH 155/52 (AGM) Boxer from Krauss-Maffei Wegmann

- CAESAR from Nexter

- Archer from the Archer Artillery Alliance*
-- * Comprising BAE Systems, Babcock and RBSL

I'm not sure if all of those potential competitors are offering bids. With the marketing merger of Nexter with Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, KNDS may want to focus on a single, unified bid. CAESAR is really a direct rival to the interim Archer already in British Army service. On the other hand, the AGM-on-Boxer combo offers something quite distinct from the truck-based Archer or tracked K9A2. Not sure how this will play out.

 

[Scott Kenny]

MFP is to be a complete AS90 replacement.
-- https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...k-accelerates-mobile-fires-platform-programme

Janes identified potential Mobile Fires Platform (MFP) competitors as:

- K9A2 Thunder from Hanwha with local partner Lockheed Martin UK

- RCH 155/52 (AGM) Boxer from Krauss-Maffei Wegmann

- CAESAR from Nexter

- Archer from the Archer Artillery Alliance*
-- * Comprising BAE Systems, Babcock and RBSL

I'm not sure if all of those potential competitors are offering bids. With the marketing merger of Nexter with Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, KNDS may want to focus on a single, unified bid. CAESAR is really a direct rival to the interim Archer already in British Army service. On the other hand, the AGM-on-Boxer combo offers something quite distinct from the truck-based Archer or tracked K9A2. Not sure how this will play out.

My preference between those would be K9A2s. The K9 is a very good system.

 

[zen]

I suspect on artillery, that Boxer is not ideal despite commonality. Germany is not flavour of the month. Unless for EU reasons not related to military reasons....

K9 Krab however is Braveheart (AS90 upgrad) on a K9 chassis. Polish UK relationship was increasing under PiS. Where it goes now is a more open question...

Archer is currently winning a lotiof praise and Sweden is increasing it's defence relationship with the UK.

 

[Apophenia]

... Archer is currently winning a lotiof praise and Sweden is increasing it's defence relationship with the UK.

I've seen two somewhat conflicting statements about proposed Archer production for MFP. One said up to 60% British content. The other implied that the Swedish line would be closed and all future Archer production would be done in the north of England (assuming that the Archer Artillery Alliance won the MFP contract, of course).

Any idea which of these statements in correct (or more current)?

 

[timmymagic]

I'm glad to see a more optimistic take on the situation. I was quoting @timmymagic who I think looked at what defense industrial base capacity the UK once had recently with what exists at the moment; in doing that things can definitely look bleak I suppose. Glad to hear things might be turning around.

It was me who updated it as well...Ukraine seems to have got at least some of Government thinking....the UK's advantage is that we had a lot of these capabilities already, or had only shuttered them recently.....starting from scratch will be far, far harder.

 

[timmymagic]

My preference between those would be K9A2s. The K9 is a very good system.

Problem is K9A2 only exists as a prototype.

And wheeled is cheaper to sustain long term, and is doing well in Ukraine...there doesn't seem to be any benefit to tracks operationally when you've got 52 cal barrels. Plus Archer has a smaller crew..

Suspect its MAN based Archer in first place, RCH155 closely followed by K9 with Caesar trailling in the far distance at present....

 

[JohnCitizen]

Someone mentioned how the Ukraine War demonstrates the speed at which nations in a modern, conventional war will burn through their front-line forces & war stocks. It's quite true. This was always the understanding throughout most of the Cold War. 20 years of counter-insurgency I think led many in the West to forget this or at least not plan for it.

Depending on the specific nature of a major peer competitor conflict, there may be time & space to replenish weapons & munitions . . . or there may not be. Even if a conflict with Russia or China (or even Iran) does not go nuclear, it could all be over very quickly.

Or it could be protracted as is the current Ukraine War. There was an article in Foreign Affairs recently detailing how a long war with China could play out, to include the necessity for in-depth defense production capability. Granted, it's from an American perspective focusing on war in the Indo-Pacific, but in the case of such a conflict I would the US being very keen on support from allies. Not just Australia which sort of is America's "Pacific UK" but the UK itself. So, once again, every potential participant would have to worry about the viability of their war stocks.

Article link if anyone's interested (enter your email for a link to get around FA's paywall)

The Big One

Preparing for a long war with China.

www.foreignaffairs.com

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

Not sure it was fully remembered through the Cold War either. BAOR was a very brittle force, with very little sustainment behind it, and with limited stocks of munitions.

Not to mention much of the rear services were reservists, and in a suprise attack may not have been mobilised in time.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

I'm not sure about the case with the BAOR and mainland European armies but in regard to American forces in Europe I think those factors were considered more than they are today but even then, still underestimated. After the 1991 Gulf War many planners were shocked at which the rate coalition forces burned through precision guided munitions and that was a rather short war.