British manned program in 60s?

[Grey Havoc]

I was always a Dan Dare fan myself. ;D

 

[uk 75]

I also get the Dan Dare mag Spaceship Away. My first space show was Fireball xl5. I also commend Stephen Baxter. He did a short piece on the net about a British manned mission. But Jeff Hawke is special because the kit was based on real designs and the near future that we once thought was round the corner- the stuff of what-if. In one episode the Raf has b70 and tsr2 derived designs.

 

[pathology_doc]

IIRC Arthur C. Clarke (in one of his novels) saw the nett result of a Commonwealth moon shot being a mission sometime in the 1970s, although he envisaged a composite system with a nuclear-powered first stage lifting the travelling and lunar landing vehicle into orbit and then returning. Takeoff was (not surprisingly, given the propulsion system) from rails at Woomera.

 

[PMN1]

IIRC Arthur C. Clarke (in one of his novels) saw the nett result of a Commonwealth moon shot being a mission sometime in the 1970s, although he envisaged a composite system with a nuclear-powered first stage lifting the travelling and lunar landing vehicle into orbit and then returning. Takeoff was (not surprisingly, given the propulsion system) from rails at Woomera.

Prelude to Space - a good book.

 

[Barrington Bond]

From The Times Survey of British Aviation Sept 1958.

Looks vaguely familiar...

 

[Michel Van]

... from a Gerry and Sylvia Anderson production
or does it mean that Derek Meddings & co had a subscription on The Times Survey of British Aviation ?

THX for picture Barrington Bond

 

[pathology_doc]

... from a Gerry and Sylvia Anderson production

Chris Gibson and I have had just this discussion re. some of the stuff in BSP4 reminding me of Thunderbirds. Someone seems to have seen stuff and used the ideas when designing the models.

 

[uk 75]

There is a sad echo of this thread in the anouncement that China intends to put a Man on the Moon on its own.

The world of Dan Dare was right in this way. If the Great Powers had pooled their resources into a UN Spacefleet the giant Saturns would still be flying, not just to the Moon, but to Mars.

If anyone in India, Brazil, China, South Africa is reading this thread. Learn from the folly of the British and the Americans/Soviets. Space belongs to all Mankind. If you do have to go back to the Moon then let it be to land a representative of all the great Continents under the UN Blue Flag in peace. After all, you may one day have to do so in earnest if ET proves more like the Mekon than Robin Williams!

 

[Barrington Bond]

That nor anything quite like it has appeared (unless I'm proven wrong) in any Anderson show god knows I have enough reference material . BUT I am sure I have seen something similar before but can't place it - perhaps in an advert?!

Regards,
Barry

 

[AAAdrone]

... from a Gerry and Sylvia Anderson production
or does it mean that Derek Meddings & co had a subscription on The Times Survey of British Aviation ?

THX for picture Barrington Bond

I honestly figure half of the stuff on SP could have been featured in the Thunderbirds really. I'm guessing it could be true that maybe the model designers saw pictures of various '50s and '60s concepts and got inspiration from them.

 

[Grey Havoc]

... from a Gerry and Sylvia Anderson production
or does it mean that Derek Meddings & co had a subscription on The Times Survey of British Aviation ?

THX for picture Barrington Bond

I honestly figure half of the stuff on SP could have been featured in the Thunderbirds really. I'm guessing it could be true that maybe the model designers saw pictures of various '50s and '60s concepts and got inspiration from them.

Actually, at least some of the time it was the other way around.

 

[Barrington Bond]

From Thunderbirds look at what is pasted on the rear wall. That is Mike Trim doing the detailing - his designs always looked as though they could be built for real. Saw him at a convention a couple of years ago with Dominic Lavery - the interviewer challenged them to come up with a design for I think an exploratory spacecraft that could operate underwater. Mike came up with a lovely lifting body design while Dominic came up with some Manga type !"£$%*.

Regards,
Barry

 

[AAAdrone]

The ones that stick out to me are the TFX the F2Y Sea Dart and XFY Pogo. I see a lot of love for Convair there. I wonder if Mike Trim is a fan?

 

[The Artist]

From The Times Survey of British Aviation Sept 1958.

Looks vaguely familiar...

Some elements of that are reminding me of the entry gliders from the old HAWK MOL kit - the one based on the Atlas booster. http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/CONVAIR%20ATLAS%20MOL%20PAGE.htm

Then there's also the old Convair Space Shuttle kit. http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/CONVAIR%20SPACE%20SHUTTLE%20PAGE.htm

 

[starviking]

That nor anything quite like it has appeared (unless I'm proven wrong) in any Anderson show god knows I have enough reference material . BUT I am sure I have seen something similar before but can't place it - perhaps in an advert?!

Regards,
Barry

The composition, though not the spacecraft, is similar to this piece by Chris Foss:

http://www.likecool.com/Gear/Pic/Chris%20Foss/Chris-Foss.jpg

 

[Michel Van]

From The Times Survey of British Aviation Sept 1958.

Looks vaguely familiar...

Barrington, you know the Terran Trade Authority book by Stewart Cowley ?
like classic "Spacecraft 2000-2100 AD"

 

[Barrington Bond]

I remember those books when they first came out - I've browsed through them but have never got around to aquiring them.

Chiz,
Barry

ps the thing that niggles me is the strips on the pop out wings - I'm sure I have seen something similar but it wasn't explained.

 

[Grif]

Those pop-out wings look very similar to those on "Supercar" - the show that got Anderson into SF, because puppets can't walk convincingly and if they're in a vehicle, they can sit down all the time!
Grif

 

[martinbayer]

The closest thing in any of the Anderson universes it reminds me of is the SHADO lifting body from UFO: http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/UFO_ShadoLiftingBody/ShadoLiftingBodyTop.htm

Martin

 

[Michel Van]

or this Prototype aircraft from UFO episode "Exposed"
http://www.framecaplib.com/ufolib/html/episodes/images/exposed/expos020.htm

 

[uk 75]

Try this page from an excellent site about the models of "Captain Scarlet": VGR the Variable
Geometry rocket at the bottom of the page has a certain similarity

http://www.tvcentury21.com/marc/models-of-cs-o.html


It is interesting that Gerry Anderson series models often drew their inspiration from ideas that were already out of date even when the series aired, but which looked cool.

In "Stingray" made in about 1964 the pair of big missiles in front of Marineville control tower are raised with their launchers on to the surface before launch like the initial Atlas and Titans. However, by 1964 in the real word these had given way to the Minuteman and Titan 2 which simply launched straight of out of silos in the ground.

This is after all a Children's TV show and had to be made with materials readily available and looking exciting (as the two framing missiles in every Marineville Battle Stations drill undoubtedly did).

The transport aircraft which helps out Fireflash in the first episode of Thunderbirds is a jet version of a Nord Noratlas or AW Argosy twin boom tail transport. Again in real life the twin boom tail design was from the 50s not the 60s, but it met the bill.

VSTOL in Anderson derives from the Short SC1 or Flying Bedstead era. All Anderson craft right into the 90s and Space 1999 have fixed downward pointing jets. No Harriers here..

Ships and cars come off much worse, as there were plenty of nice American kits to quickly re-dress and provide the background. However, Ocean Pioneer 1, the fuel tanker ship in Thunderbirds i remarkably similar to a class of Polish built merchants of the 60s. She is a scratchbuilt and may have been inspired by a contemporary newspaper or magazine article about the real thing.

Aircraft carriers in Gerry Anderson series are derived from Revell US Navy models or scratchbuilt. Warships generally have 50s style missile launchers.

Finally, I know this has nothing to do with the thread, but those who have never heard of Anderson's series might now be wondering how such a wonderfully complicated technical background came about just for a kid's show..

 

[Barrington Bond]

Aviation Week 21 April 1958 has an article with a hypothetical plane very similar in layout but with a proper delta shape and no pop out wings. Unfortunately couldn't scan it but did some doodles. The thing is I don't think it's the drawing I remember.

Regards,
Barry

 

[Barrington Bond]

1962 RAF space capsule...

 

[Barrington Bond]

Yes I can but I wanted to see what comments it might draw before I do...

 

[Michel Van]

1962 RAF space capsule...

OMG

I see for first time a Mockup of British Manned spacecraft B)
BIG THX Barrington Bond

On space craft the Picture show that the Craft has:
2 solar panels (of four ?)
A antenna for communication
Back on heat shield that packet look part of a RCS ? or is this a retro packet like Mercury ?

you got this picture in higher resolution, Barrington?
i try photoshop on it
maybe i get the writhing on mockup, readable...

 

[The Artist]

1962 RAF space capsule...

That thing looks rather flat to me - like it is a painted cut-out. Is that a still (or a behind the scenes shot) from a training or publicity film?

 

[Michel Van]

That thing looks rather flat to me - like it is a painted cut-out. Is that a still (or a behind the scenes shot) from a training or publicity film?

It's not flat.
The rounded off cone has no shado, because the flashlight used to take the picture
but the packet to shade on head shield

 

[Barrington Bond]

Sorry,
had to go to a birthday party. Was hoping to get more info from the show program which I found that Aldershot Library had but alas just one mysterious line.
It's from the 1962 Royal Tournament organised that year by the RAF. Apparently it was lowered from the ceiling at the end of a display. I assume the photo is not from the display as it is described in the text as being white with RAF roundels. The picture in question is from the September 1962 RAF Flying Review - thats a Hoover inflating his suit lower right.
Regards,
Barry Hinchliffe

 

[Barrington Bond]

Now this is quite interesting - last para first page and first of second.

 

[CNH]

The RAF did issue a requirement for a manned space shuttle [OR 9001], and with a straight face, RAE drew up a suitable launcher design. It bore no resemblance to anything in production, and probably would have required the same degree of effort and expense as the real shuttle. Still, there's nothing like dreaming ....

 

[alertken]

and dreaming is the point.

For any conspiracy to work large numbers of folk-in-the-know must conspire. We know that to have worked once in modern UK Aero: Churchill was surprised in 10/51 to find that Attlee had been able to get on with a UK Bomb, buried from Parliamentary view. It was squirreled deep in the Ministry of Works Votes. Hundreds, do I mean thousands, of prospective whistle-blowers (= thieves of Intellectual Property) passed on the chance of money and fame, because they accepted Ministers' judgement that the Sovs presented a mortal Threat, and silence was our best weapon. So:

I was one of (IIRC: 50,000) staff of Ministry of Aviation in 1962-64. I handled money into engine R&D. RZ2 was dribble-funded for ELDO. Oddly MoA also directly contracted fuel work at (Air Products? and) Br.Oxygen Co. Dribble. If a backlog of unpriced work from 1950s' manned/ICBM projects was with the accountants, I would have handled the contract files. But I didn't, 'cos none existed. So: either: I am an unindicted conspirator; or Big Streak was well-buried in a black hole; or...dreams. Dan Dare fantasy.

 

[Barrington Bond]

Interesting to read the text...

 

[TsrJoe]

i wonder if theres any photographs of the mentioned show capsule mockup with roundels out there B)

 

[TsrJoe]

not clear enough to make out any detail, but here high in the trusses ...

Finale of the Royal Air Force's "Cavalcade of Flying" in the arena at Earl's Court, London, during a dress rehearsal of this year's Royal Tournament. The Cavalcade commemorates the 50th anniversary of the Royal Flying Corps Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: Finale of the Royal Air Force's Cavalcade of Flying in the arena at Earl's Court, London, during a dress rehearsal of this year's Royal Tournament. The Cavalcade commemorates the 50th anniversary of the Royal Flying Corps. - RJ774N from Alamy's library of millions of...

www.alamy.com

 

[CNH]

Ah ... Dan Dare

 

[uk 75]

Re-visiting this thread I am impressed by how the spacecraft in the film 2001were overtaken by reality in the form of computer processing power. Unmanned spacecraft in the 70s were able to.make the same journey as the massive Discovery spacecraft and send back pictures and data unburdened by humans or HAL.
The UK carved out a key role in satelite design and construction. This did not need a costly launcher or manned space programme. We actually got it right (by accident of course).