Bristol Helicopters

[GT6Boy]

"Hold the line caller. .."

 

[GT6Boy]

This Blue document also shown in post #43 (dated 1st May 1962) was evidently submitted by the HDO(Helicopter Design Office) at Oldmixon (Weston-super-mare), of the Bristol Helicopter Division of Westland. This was the former HDO for Bristol-post 1955. Note these GA drawings are all dated drawn 1st or the 18th April 1964 and carry the Drawing numbers PD194- ** and are 1st Issue drawing.
As requested, the GA drawings.

 

[GT6Boy]

In contrast, this ring bound document titled: Westland Westonian Helicopter To Royal Air Force Draft Air Staff Target For Utility Helicopter (dated June 1962) appears to have been the Westland response, from the Main site at Yeovil, to the Air Staff request- it states Printed and Published by the Technical Publications Dept. Yeovil Division.

 

[GT6Boy]

There you go!
All this would have been so much easier if my Father was here to ask! Even though he knew his sons were bonkers-mad on aeroplanes, he never spoke of his work. He took us to airshows and the like but, work was work. He barely mentioned his 8 years in the FAA prior to working for the BAC/Westland for 35 years, all in helicopters.
He went with Westland(as it was then, on the hot weather trials for the Belvedere HC.1 as it had become by then, in 1961. These were the (speed record) breaking trials at Idris in Libya. The photo below was taken by him and according to the IHM at Weston-Super-Mare, are the only ones in existence! I gave them his negatives, so they have a formal record.

 

[GT6Boy]

...and if you will forgive me a little indulgence. Here is my father at Farnborough in 1962(?) The photograph was taken by a retired former colleague from Weston: Francis Boreham(he is mentioned in the excellent book: Weston-Super-Mare and the Aeroplane).
Evidently, by this stage my father was also involved in the Gnome conversions of Whirlwinds being enacted at Oldmixon. The photograph negative was forwarded by Mr Boreham with a lovely chatty letter stating how lovely it was to see my father and chat about things rotary. He signed off- The Old Professor.

 

[GT6Boy]

Finally- going back to a telephone conversation with Reg Austin(also formally of Raoul Hafner's HDO at the Bristol Aeroplane Co.) Here is a photograph he sent of the company model of the 194(iirc?)- on his table! He was an extremely interesting guy to talk with but, I seem to have mislaid the notes I made of our conversation at the time.
I do recall that whilst he was horrified at the manner in which the senior Westland management team walked around the Oldmixon factory and somewhat summarily advised folk that work was to stop on an enormous amount of projects, he was keen to state that the Westland support for the former Bristol twin rotor design(194?) was much appreciated.

 

[Ekimwest]

It might be worth mentioning the Bristol Type 181, there doesn’t seem to be much information on the type. According to The Journal of the Helicopter Association of Great Britain, 1952, it will be “similar in configuration to the fully developed 173, with rotors of approximately 173 size, but operated at much higher disc loading. The machine will have capacity for about 45 seats, its A.U.W. will be in the region of 40,000 lbs., and its power will be not less than 4,000 h.p”. Hesham has it with two Proteus engines in the Bristol designation thread. In the Journal they speculate that the Type 181 would be the likely Bristol proposal for B.E.A. in late 1952.

 

[hesham]

What was this air crane helicopter Project ?.

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[Ekimwest]

Bristol 10-Ton Crane Helicopter.

From a photocopy of a pamphlet issued by Sales Engineering, Bristol Aircraft Limited (with basically the same illustration):

“This is a tip-turbine driven helicopter designed to lift 10 tons with an external sling, and capable of operating 200 miles from base and returning without refuelling.

The gantry airframe can be readily dismantled into compact units for air transport to distant theatres.

The offset cockpit gives a continuous visual check of the slung load, an advantage not available with the conventional symmetric layout.”

Engines: 4 Bristol Siddeley P 189. Twin tip-turbines.
Rotor Diameter: 80ft
Basic weight: 9,800 lb
Slung load: 22,400 lb
Fuel: 1,800 lb (Max. internal fuel 6,400 lb)
Design weight: 34,000 lb

 

[hesham]

Thank you Ekimwest,

and has this report a more drawings to it ?.

 

[Ekimwest]

Interestingly, I have the Westland W.G.16 as a 10 ton lift helicopter crane, tip jet driven but at 7,000 lb. empty weight. I assume that the Westland machine would have been the Bristol one shown, or a development there of, post merger. Unfortunately I have no details to confirm that hypothesis.

 

[hesham]

Many thanks to you Ekimwest,

and maybe it was for Westland,and Bristol was just a misprint ?.

 

[yasotay]

Interestingly, I have the Westland W.G.16 as a 10 ton lift helicopter crane, tip jet driven but at 7,000 lb. empty weight. I assume that the Westland machine would have been the Bristol one shown, or a development there of, post merger. Unfortunately I have no details to confirm that hypothesis.

In the category for the ugliest helicopter ever conceived...

 

[Ekimwest]

I prefer to think of it as having ‘character’! I quite like it, it’s functional.

maybe it was for Westland,and Bristol was just a misprint ?.

Definitely Bristol, it’s called the Bristol Crane in several places, on the drawing etc., and Bristol Aircraft footnote.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I can solve this problem,when Bristol Helicopter Division became a part of Westland Aircraft Limited
in 1960,maybe only Bristol for this department,what was the date of this report ?.

 

[Ekimwest]

Unfortunately there is no date recorded.

If the Bristol Crane is the same aircraft as the Westland W.G.16 then it might just be a similar progression to the Westonian project earlier in this thread, that (according to Air Pictorial) went from Bristol Type 194 to Type 193 to Westonian to the Westland W.G.1. (Ref reply #36).

If the pamphlet had been published soon after the merger then I would expect it to have been footed Bristol Division, Westland Group (or similar) rather than ‘Bristol Aircraft Limited’.

 

[CJGibson]

A quick scribble.

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1963.

From Aeroplane 1963.

 

[Hood]

That's a nice find Hesham.

Aeroplane of course couldn't tell the full story - these were not "hypotheticals" but are part of Westland (Bristol Helicopter Division) Group Study No.1 for the WG.1 programme to NASR.358, the report coming out in May 1963.
The lower-left model is Variant A - the 30,000lb AUW transport for the RAF.
The upper-right model is Variant B or Variant D (though the drawing I've seen of 'B' has the rear engines lower down on the pylon) - 'B' was the 35,750lb AUW naval variant and 'D' was a 30,000lb RAF version of 'B'.
The lower-right model is new to me, I didn't know that a single-rotor design was studied as part of this group but it would have made sense for Bristol to have looked at single-rotor given the naval requirements of NASR.358. The result is very Frelon-esque.

I covered these studies in The Admiralty and the Helicopter but it is the first time I have seen these in model form.

 

[MMDriver]

The civilian version also found a semblance of reality thanks to Arnold Toys of West Germany.

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

Thought folks might like to see these GA of the Series 1 and 2 Type 191, as they are spoken of at length in this post.
Thanks to Paul Chapman, formally of Westlands Future Projects Group, for kind use of the 2 191 GA's.
Interesting to see the Series 2 employing the subsequent undercarriage as evidenced to the Type 192 Belvedere.
Paul had the foresight to ensure historically important documents, such as these, weren't always entirely disposed of, as is often the case.

We spent a very enjoyable afternoon talking over aspects of his career at Westlands and elsewhere- what an interesting guy he is.

 

[Nick]

The civilian version also found a semblance of reality thanks to Arnold Toys of West Germany.View attachment 732676

Nice toy. It looks rather like the real thing including the military serial number.
See here: https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1678433

 

[MMDriver]

Nice toy. It looks rather like the real thing including the military serial number.
See here: https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1678433

Wonderful photo! Thank you for sharing. I did not know that a Bristol 173 actually saw service with BEA. What a beautiful helicopter!