Bradley Fighting Vehicle

Those 25mm rounds seem unlikely to penetrate tank armor but they seem likely to *remove* everything *from* the armor. A tank with its optics blown off is not going to be combat effective, and blasting the bejeebers out of the active protection will make it far easier for a missile, drone or cannon to actually penetrate the armor. Chances are good the main gun is also perforated or at least bent.

In addition: imagine being inside that thing while it's being shot to hell. That tank crew is going to be the very definition of "shell shock."
 
Orionblamblam said:
Those 25mm rounds seem unlikely to penetrate tank armor but they seem likely to *remove* everything *from* the armor. A tank with its optics blown off is not going to be combat effective, and blasting the bejeebers out of the active protection will make it far easier for a missile, drone or cannon to actually penetrate the armor. Chances are good the main gun is also perforated or at least bent.

In addition: imagine being inside that thing while it's being shot to hell. That tank crew is going to be the very definition of "shell shock."
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I remember a story of an Abrams getting lit up by a Bradley in Desert Storm.

Abrams gets on the radio: "Cease fire, cease fire, you're hitting a friendly!"

Bradley comes back with: "Not shooting at you, I'm shooting the Iraqi infantry crawling all over you!"

Abrams: "Open fire, we'll deal with the headache."
 
Orionblamblam said:
Those 25mm rounds seem unlikely to penetrate tank armor but they seem likely to *remove* everything *from* the armor. A tank with its optics blown off is not going to be combat effective, and blasting the bejeebers out of the active protection will make it far easier for a missile, drone or cannon to actually penetrate the armor. Chances are good the main gun is also perforated or at least bent.

In addition: imagine being inside that thing while it's being shot to hell. That tank crew is going to be the very definition of "shell shock."
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Depends on where they hit.

The Tseries, be the old 72nils to the newest 90ms, have fuck all for side armor, topping out at 35mm on the hull side and 50mm on the turret sides. Before ERA, which gets Ablated to nothing by the amount a autocannon can put out.

The 25mm tungsten core M791?

44mm at 2000 meters, 90 at sub 400.

The newer M919 DU does something north of that.

And those figures are of the lower end averages to ensure max reliability.

Cause reality loving to show that what the paper spec says dont mean much.

So may as well set up expectations low and be happily surprised when you get the high end figures instead.

Theres longet form of that video, only the driver made it out as the tank start smoking from everywhere.

Do not get into a knife fight with an auto cannon vehicle that has a shot at you sides.

You will lose.
 
Firefinder said:
And those figures are of the lower end averages to ensure max reliability.

Cause reality loving to show that what the paper spec says dont mean much.

So may as well set up expectations low and be happily surprised when you get the high end figures instead.
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In other words...
 

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Bradleys really are amazing fighting vehicles. TBH I suck at land warfare and armored vehicles. I didn't thought a Bradley could tackle a full blown battletank, even at close range.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Those 25mm rounds seem unlikely to penetrate tank armor but they seem likely to *remove* everything *from* the armor. A tank with its optics blown off is not going to be combat effective, and blasting the bejeebers out of the active protection will make it far easier for a missile, drone or cannon to actually penetrate the armor. Chances are good the main gun is also perforated or at least bent.

In addition: imagine being inside that thing while it's being shot to hell. That tank crew is going to be the very definition of "shell shock."
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Seemed to also damage the cannon. A tank with its optics and cannon gone is a tomb.
 
Scott Kenny said:
They don't want to, but they sure can when the sewage hits the turbofan.
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We've all seen videos of a cat going ham on a far larger dog and emerging victorious. The cat damn near can't actually kill a Rottweiler, while the dog could kill the cat with one bite... but the cats wild fury is enough to make the dog run away screaming. Same thing seemed to happen here.
 
Archibald said:
Bradleys really are amazing fighting vehicles. TBH I suck at land warfare and armored vehicles. I didn't thought a Bradley could tackle a full blown battletank, even at close range.
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Oh, and in all honesty, the Bradley wants to shoot at the MBT from about 2000m away or more, where the T-series has little chance of hitting and the TOW is doing all the work. IIRC the TOW guidance sensor is also in the armored box that holds the missiles, so the Bradley can get Turret Down and still throw a TOW at someone.
 
Scott Kenny said:
IIRC the TOW guidance sensor is also in the armored box that holds the missiles, so the Bradley can get Turret Down and still throw a TOW at someone.
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I don't think so. The TOW tracker was part of the ISU and then IBAS which sits on the turret roof above the gunner. There are no optics in the launcher itself. So you could be very close to turret down but not all the way.

The M901 (M113 with TOW) had the optics in the hammerhead with the missiles.
 
The Russian armored vehicles seemed to be operating blind or with very poor situational awareness. Bad optics, training or both?
 
bobbymike said:
The Russian armored vehicles seemed to be operating blind or with very poor situational awareness. Bad optics, training or both?
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Marginal optics and bad training.


Orionblamblam said:
It just got shot in the face with an autocannon.
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Yes, but how did it not see the Bradley in front of it about to light it up like a christmas tree?
 
Scott Kenny said:
Yes, but how did it not see the Bradley in front of it about to light it up like a christmas tree?
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Bradley: Ukraine SMO Hide-And-Seek champion, 2024.

If you note the video, that T-90M ended up hitting the one intact tree in the region. What the video doesn't show was that before the video started, the Bradley was hiding behind that very same tree. Very sneaky, the Bradley.

smug.jpg
 
in harsh contrast to clueless Russian crew of T-90M
The driver try move T-90M so it main gun could aim on Bradley
seems the Two had damage the turret and main optics of T-90M
but i more surprise, how the Bradley M42 cannon manage such easy kill on that Tank
what make me wonder, has someone in T-90M factory "cut corners" and used cheaper soft steel ?
 
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Reminds me of Red Storm Rising, when the Americans (Abrams) fighting along the Germans (Leopard) are baffled because the Germans just can't give up giving the Soviet a bloody nose. They not only repeal Soviet tanks attacks but actually chase them away. Up to endangering the front line with exposed saliants in the "right" direction - Germany to USSR, rather than the other way around.
 
aonestudio said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1747744947091001556
View: https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1747744947091001556
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The last time I saw anything like that was when Reliant was gutting the Enterprise.

But..but NBC called the Bradley flawed
www.nbcnews.com

The Army decided to replace Bradley Fighting Vehicles 17 years and $22b ago. They still don't have a prototype.

This convoluted road to nowhere stems from the Pentagon shifting the goal posts, having unrealistic expectations and refusing to accept what industry offers.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

And the media is never wrong… ;)
 
Scott Kenny said:
Marginal optics and bad training.



Yes, but how did it not see the Bradley in front of it about to light it up like a christmas tree?
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T90M optics are perfectly capable. One vehicle was looking the right way and saw the other first and lit it up. They got lucky and the gunner kept his shit together to keep pressure on the target, which seems to have not just damaged optics but rattled the crew. No idea why the turret was spinning; never seen that behavior before. I would think the drivers periscopes would still be ok; not sure why he crashed.
 
Going to go out on a limb and say getting shot by autocannon causes panic. And no their optics are alright. And also panic can shut down even the best of training. The key is to do what the Ukrainians did and not relent and give the tank crew time to gather their wits. Great work on their part. Just keep shooting till what you shoot at turns into a fire and smoke factory.

Edit: interesting it almost looks like some of the relict explosive cooked off at one point. It is pretty inert stuff so it is crazy to see that happen as it is only supposed to explode thru contact with high explosive anti tank and large fin rounds from what I read and watched. Brutal stuff to witness.
 
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Josh_TN said:
T90M optics are perfectly capable.
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But not as good as what's in the Bradley.

TMA1 said:
Edit: interesting it almost looks like some of the relict explosive cooked off at one point. It is pretty inert stuff so it is crazy to see that happen as it is only supposed to explode thru contact with high explosive anti tank and large fin rounds from what I read and watched. Brutal stuff to witness.
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There are HEI rounds for the 25mm, I believe they're the standard "other" ammo. Depending on what/how the Bradley was loaded those could have been either APDS or HEI.

It would surprise me if Relikt ERA was supposed to explode if 25mm APDS hit it, but I don't know if that's my expectations being incorrect, bad Russian QA, or something else.
 
Scott Kenny said:
But not as good as what's in the Bradley.


There are HEI rounds for the 25mm, I believe they're the standard "other" ammo. Depending on what/how the Bradley was loaded those could have been either APDS or HEI.
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A modern Bradley no, an ODS Bradley yes,or probably better. The variant supplied predates the A3 with the independent thermal for the commander.

M2 25mm I believe can swap between two ammo hoppers with DU sabot and HEI being the normal (only?) options.
 
TMA1 said:
Going to go out on a limb and say getting shot by autocannon causes panic. And no their optics are alright. And also panic can shut down even the best of training. The key is to do what the Ukrainians did and not relent and give the tank crew time to gather their wits. Great work on their part. Just keep shooting till what you shoot at turns into a fire and smoke factory.
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As stated in one of the greatest movies in cinema history: "If something comes at me, I'll just pull the trigger till it goes away."
 
Josh_TN said:
I thought A3 brads already had an independent viewer?
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It does. There are still a lot of -A2ODS though.

The Army has just been penny packeting orders for CIVs for the past 25 years or so. If it's the old CIV with the 2GF, it will be the same from the 2000's, but if it's the B-kit from the new eLRAS3's then it will be the 3GF and that's from 2018 or 2016 or something. Priority goes to M1 and FA/Scout troops for 3GF B-kits though. There's plenty of money making 2GF kits for now.

2GF in U.S. is typically a LWIR iridium-antimonide cooled array and 3GF is a dual-band LWIR-MWIR that works by black magic and software that is vaguely adjacent to hyperspectral imaging. Europeans could never as they're too busy staring at America's awe-inspiring GaAs-Si wizardry from the bottom of a quantum well, so their "3GF" is a piddly ass MWIR that goes on a boat or whatever.

1GF no longer exists in service, outside of like a Guard armory with Sixties or Sheridan TTS, but would be similar to T-80UK's Agava FLIR.

Scott Kenny said:
So what's new in the M2A4E1?
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New suspension, tracks, and a higher SWaP overhead that affords. I think the alternator got changed but that might be the Stryker's ECP.
 
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