Boeing F-15EX/QA and related variants

NMaude said:
Well in that case then call it the F-15G.
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F-15G is a long-standing - as in since the 90s, proposal for a Wild Weasel variant. Which should be have been done then, and should still be done. There is also one for an EA version ala the F-18G, which I also think would be a good idea. In fact what I'd really like to see is a Strike-Eagle-Growler, an F-15E replacement strike aircraft with an EW suite rivaling a Growler.
 
NMaude said:
Since EF-111A Raven IIRC was also known as the Electric Fox, how about the Electric Eagle?
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Since the E sometimes get's referred to as the Beagle (bomb-eagle), so how about Electric Beagle?

In all seriousness though, after watching a bunch of interviews with Starbaby (a former F-4G EWO) on the "10% true" youtube channel, he makes good arguments for the F-15G and the need for dedicated SEAD/DEAD assets, including an EA aircraft.
 
apparition13 said:
F-15G is a long-standing - as in since the 90s, proposal for a Wild Weasel variant. Which should be have been done then, and should still be done. There is also one for an EA version ala the F-18G, which I also think would be a good idea. In fact what I'd really like to see is a Strike-Eagle-Growler, an F-15E replacement strike aircraft with an EW suite rivaling a Growler.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1815727047244726572
View: https://x.com/Doha104p3/status/1815727047244726572
 
Josh_TN said:
I do not think the USAF has any requirement for a tactical jammer.
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This may be their official stance, but I believe there have been times since the EF-111A was retired that they've had to "borrow" USN support from EA-6Bs or EA-18Gs for different operations.

Out of all of the USAF's current fighters the F-15 is easily the most appropriate for such a variant. You could probably place some components for the EW suite in CFT/FAST packs. Admittedly that would cut into the fuel those carry, but I'm guessing the EA-18G isn't exactly ideal in terms of range/loiter time either.
 
Colonial-Marine said:
Out of all of the USAF's current fighters the F-15 is easily the most appropriate for such a variant. You could probably place some components for the EW suite in CFT/FAST packs. Admittedly that would cut into the fuel those carry, but I'm guessing the EA-18G isn't exactly ideal in terms of range/loiter time either.
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F-35, if it's possible to use both the central pod(a-la gun pod on B/C) and conformal solutions into weapon bays(overall 3), theoretically* is a highly competitive option. If anything, because of its software architecture.

*theoretically, because software is the main enemy of the whole F-35 family...
 
I don´t see the logic of using the F-15 as a platform when you have already the F-35 that was designed to carry those pods.

Hasn´t anybody figured yet that in order to do some offset Jamming, the EX would have to jam it´s own shadow first. But If ECCM is now again all about flying around disguised as a giant chaff, then perhaps...
 
TomcatViP said:
I don´t see the logic of using the F-15 as a platform when you have already the F-35 that was designed to carry those pods.

Hasn´t anybody figured yet that in order to do some offset Jamming, the EX would have to jam it´s own shadow first. But If ECCM is now again all about flying around disguised as a giant chaff, then perhaps...
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It makes more sense than using a stealth aircraft as a stand-off jamming asset.
 
Forest Green said:
It makes more sense than using a stealth aircraft as a stand-off jamming asset.
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(1) Jammers aren't always on, it's legal to sneak up or turn them off when threatened;
(2) Jamming making you emit isn't equal to giving radar return. Yes, they know where you are; it's still not a normal firing solution.
(3) F-35(and all it's contemporaries) is meant to jam with it's main array anyway(which is super powerful). Su-57 in particular jams in all directions from Ku to L. Like, why not, if you can choose when;
(4) Stealth isn't some sort of legal obligation - at worst, you're going to be as unstealthy as f-15 always was. F-35 is cheaper anyway.

Advantages here are that:
(1)f-15ex is a twin-seater with the most modern back seat in the world;
(2)it simply has more fuel;
(3) distribution of power generally favours twin engine solutions over powerful single engine ones (though huge difference in airframe age can nullify it;
(4)For stand-in jamming, f-15ex with pods is a better match to both 4th gen and clean f-35 formations. Podded f-35 only truly matches superbugs probably... which already have a better e-escort.
 
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I do not see a significant need for stand off jamming when fifth gen aircraft are available. F-35 is a SEAD plane pretending to be a fighter. As for jamming and stealth, an AESA emitter is highly narrow and directional with its primary beam; you might easily jam a specific target while going unnoticed to everyone else. Depends on the spacing. F-22 was claimed to be able to track a target with a beam only 2 degrees wide.

NGJ was built for the USN because they have unique defensive EW needs. I do not think this something that would be super. useful to the USAF.
 
They are struggling to even get back to the program as it was originally envisioned (144 aircraft for the ANG), but somehow money will appear to support a variant that could potentially cost 30% or more than the baseline EX?
 
Wonder if that is not a direct consequence of the opportunity of having to keep EWO and other backseaters on the EX. What best can the USAF & ANG do with that extra crew seat?
 
bring_it_on said:
They are struggling to even get back to the program as it was originally envisioned (144 aircraft for the ANG), but somehow money will appear to support a variant that could potentially cost 30% or more than the baseline EX?
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If they're willing to export it, there may actually be plently of overseas interest. If such a concept materializes, It'd basically be the Western equivalent of PLAAF's J-16D.

Shenyang-J-16D-e1636476152634.jpeg
 
snne said:
If they're willing to export it, there may actually be plently of overseas interest. If such a concept materializes, It'd basically be the Western equivalent of PLAAF's J-16D.
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Based on how well the Growler did on the export market? The F-15EX will likely be quite a bit more expensive given its a larger aircraft, and the fact that Boeing would have to recover its RDT&E costs from export orders (Growler was funded by Navy). And then there are issues with exporting NGJ beyond a certain select group of countries etc etc. So no, it will be cost prohibitive and unlikely to go anywhere unless it is DOD funded. I fail to see how the DOD goes towards introducing a completely new fighter into the USAF family when it can't fund the ones it already has in there and is even looking at cancelling or changing its strategy on its future NGAD.
 
TomcatViP said:
Wonder if that is not a direct consequence of the opportunity of having to keep EWO and other backseaters on the EX. What best can the USAF & ANG do with that extra crew seat?
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Swap it out for the Es and make the older Es the ANG aircraft with just a pilot.
 
snne said:
If they're willing to export it, there may actually be plently of overseas interest. If such a concept materializes, It'd basically be the Western equivalent of PLAAF's J-16D.

Shenyang-J-16D-e1636476152634.jpeg
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J-15/16D aren't even meant to be exported, and those are clearly fully developed, thoroughly EW platforms(probably more than even the growler - outside changes to basic platform are larger). There's nothing fast and cheap in them.
Josh_TN said:
I do not see a significant need for stand off jamming when fifth gen aircraft are available. F-35 is a SEAD plane pretending to be a fighter. As for jamming and stealth, an AESA emitter is highly narrow and directional with its primary beam; you might easily jam a specific target while going unnoticed to everyone else. Depends on the spacing. F-22 was claimed to be able to track a target with a beam only 2 degrees wide.

NGJ was built for the USN because they have unique defensive EW needs. I do not think this something that would be super. useful to the USAF.
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Stealth aircraft still need stand off* and stand in jamming(especially since it's inadvisable for them to emit in all directions). Especially lower frequency and unfavourable aspect fire control ones(read - ambushes).

Moreover, they benefit a hell more than "normal" aircraft from a spectrum maelstrom.

*Big EW aircraft
 
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Ainen said:
Stealth aircraft still need stand off* and stand in jamming(especially since it's inadvisable for them to emit in all directions). Especially lower frequency and unfavourable aspect fire control ones(read - ambushes).

Moreover, they benefit a hell more than "normal" aircraft from a spectrum maelstrom.

*Big EW aircraft
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Perhaps, but it seems to me such ECM needs to be located on the aircraft, not in a 4 gen dozens or more miles away. F-35s have significant ECM from what we know - the radar itself, a new towed decoy, disposable countermeasures, and it has been implied other capabilities as well. Not sure a stand off NGJ brings much to the table. I guess more frequencies than just the X band of the F-35 radar. The low band pod is not even in EMD however; growlers will still be using ALQ-99.
 
I can't help but wonder if unmanned loyal wingman systems will be taking on the loud & screechy area jammer role anyway? That backseat in the EagleEX would be a good spot for a system controller to occupy and manage 3-4 jammer drones. Better for the drones to soak up the home-on-jam AAMs than the manned platform.
 
Josh_TN said:
Perhaps, but it seems to me such ECM needs to be located on the aircraft, not in a 4 gen dozens or more miles away. F-35s have significant ECM from what we know - the radar itself, a new towed decoy, disposable countermeasures, and it has been implied other capabilities as well. Not sure a stand off NGJ brings much to the table. I guess more frequencies than just the X band of the F-35 radar. The low band pod is not even in EMD however; growlers will still be using ALQ-99.
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Ideally, it takes a F-35G to cover it. But at the current state of the F-35 program IMHO it's unrealistic - and will be possible so late that it doesn't make sense. Not the least due to L-band pod limbo you've pointed out(can't order a conformal version of something that doesn't even exist);
NGAD is far in the future(but not far enough to let F-35G make sense).

F-15EXG(not a true G, but just a NGJ pod carrier to jam 360) seems to be the best of the bad options.
This way, F-15E/EX and jammerless ally formations will at least have escort jammers at all, and F-35 will at least get 360 X- support from behind (no escort jammer - but their comprehensive ECM indeed does the trick).

p.s. come to think of it, su-57 may be the best escort jammer in the world for the 2020s. And it isn't even meant as such in the first place.
 
Forest Green said:
Sometimes I think we are writing TWZ articles for them on this site.
www.twz.com

USAF Should Look At China's Future Multi-Crew Fighter Model For F-15EX

The F-15EX's currently empty rear cockpit needs to be taken advantage of by adding a new kind of second crewmen, an Air Mission Commanding Officer.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

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“When you stare into the War Zone…the War Zone stares into you…”
 

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