Blue Origin and New SHEPARD RLV

[Richard N]

Can Bezos and Branson Be Called Astronauts? It Depends Who You Ask.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKx-QD5w9Ew

 

[sferrin]

No. They were cargo.

 

[Michel Van]

I found this article by Erik Berger:
one of reason New Glenn is years behind schedule
Jeff Bezos wanted Design changes on New Glenn
and now it seems they working on Project Jarvis a full reusable second-stage for New Glenn

together with two other major projects
first is related to in-space propulsion
second is focusing on developing and demonstrating in situ resource-utilization technologies for the Moon and beyond.

Blue Origin not comment on question and request of mr Berger

Source

Blue Origin has a secret project named “Jarvis” to compete with SpaceX

“This is the difference between taking a profit and a loss on New Glenn launches.”…

arstechnica.com

 

[Archibald]

Grabs popcorn and wait to see how Bezos intends to recover his second stage.

I would bet on a big inflatable heatshield & landing cushion + a CH-54 powerful helicopter to recover the whole thing downrange; perhaps dropping it on a boat deck - but that's only my little self.

That renewed space race gets more exciting every week !

 

[TomcatViP]

Stainless steel stages and reusable second and first stage rumored on the program:

Blue Origin has a secret project named “Jarvis” to compete with SpaceX

“This is the difference between taking a profit and a loss on New Glenn launches.”…

arstechnica.com

 

[Richard N]

Scott Manley concludes the Astronaut? video with:

"So after all this, I don't think it's about the flight profile and more about the difference in training and experience needed for a proper long duration flight in space. And you know what, if Jeff really cares about it that much, then he should hurry up, get New Glenn flying and so then he can actually take a ride in orbit.

At least if he does that, we won't have so many jokes about genitals."

 

[Archibald]

Well he seemingly had a capsule proposal to CCDEV so maybe he should dust it off. Or start working from the suborbital capsule, but a ton of things would have to be modified on it, I do know...

 

[martinbayer]

No. They were cargo.

Wrong - they were passengers.

 

[sferrin]

No. They were cargo.

Wrong - they were passengers.

i.e. cargo.

 

[martinbayer]

No. They were cargo.

Wrong - they were passengers.

i.e. cargo.

Wrong again - the common term you are actually looking for is payload. Even a cursory look at the respective accommodations for both categories of payloads on commercial airliners should educate you on the difference.

 

[sferrin]

No. They were cargo.

Wrong - they were passengers.

i.e. cargo.

Wrong again - the common term you are actually looking for is payload. Even a cursory look at the respective accommodations for both categories of payloads on commercial airliners should educate you on the difference.

Really?

 

[Jemiba]

Could you stop this pointless discussion, please ?

 

[bearnard97]

The Blue Origin has started working on a project to develop a fully reusable upper stage for New Glenn, which may potentially use stainless steel propellant tanks. ..." https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07 ... -projects/ Interesting fact that the new project by Blue Origin is called ``Jarvis``

 

[sferrin]

The Blue Origin has started working on a project to develop a fully reusable upper stage for New Glenn, which may potentially use stainless steel propellant tanks. ..." https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07 ... -projects/ Interesting fact that the new project by Blue Origin is called ``Jarvis``

That article has been quoted twice on this page alone.

 

[Archibald]

Could you stop this pointless discussion, please ?

The "Jim" is strong, with those ones. LMAO

 

[Michel Van]

Blue Origin Protest on SpaceX HLS was DENIED!

Statement on Blue Origin-Dynetics Decision

The following is a statement from Kenneth E. Patton, Managing Associate General Counsel for Procurement Law at GAO, regarding today’s decision...

www.gao.gov

 

[MihoshiK]

Blue Origin Protest on SpaceX HLS was DENIED!

Statement on Blue Origin-Dynetics Decision

The following is a statement from Kenneth E. Patton, Managing Associate General Counsel for Procurement Law at GAO, regarding today’s decision...

www.gao.gov

To the surprise of no one but Jeff Bezos. NASA made very sure to cross their Ts and dot their Is on this one.

 

[Archibald]

Can Bezos and Branson Be Called Astronauts? It Depends Who You Ask.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKx-QD5w9Ew

Spacengers would be my choice.

 

[Archibald]

I tried to forge a neologism that could marry a space-related word with passenger.
Trust me, anything involving "-naut" sounds ackward or horrible. At least "space" sounds like the beginning of "passenger" so let's marry them...

 

[Flyaway]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1419740029270773760

View: https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1419740029270773760

Unofficially—because Blue Origin never talks about these things publicly—I've heard that a total of nine BE-4 engines have been built as part of the development program so far. Nine. Zero currently on the test stand.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1419740625201598473

View: https://twitter.com/tobyliiiiiiiiii/status/1419740625201598473

Wow 5 years of development and they've only built 9 engines which barely can support one launch.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1419741117801762819

View: https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1419741117801762819

None of those nine are flight engines.

 

[Grey Havoc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ERAJI5NaZ4

 

[Michel Van]

From the Ministry of Propaganda at Blue Origin
This time on SpaceX

 

[Flyaway]

I wonder if there’s a link between the appearance of this propaganda and the news they have only built nine BE-4s, none of which are flight hardware.

 

[Michel Van]

Those litte infographic about Virgin Galactic and SpaceX
show effect

Outrage People at Twitter and Spaceflight Forums, who condemned this action
Calling BO a bad loser
and criticize the company on there lack of achievement
or label the Company as a Rich Man Hobby...

matter of time that bomb hit Spaceflight media and later mainstream media...

 

[Michel Van]

The BE-4 Rocket engine program is 4 year behind schedule

Why ?
Management Problems of an at-times distracted founder Jeff Bezos, (Musk lives in Starbase and deal with Starship program at place)
some to the CEO Bob Smith, who Bezos hired to run Blue Origin in 2017
(Rumours goes that Smith focused more on a substantial reorganization of Blue Origin's leadership rather than hardware development.)
and part to the COVID-19 pandemic and Smith poor Management to deal with this (empty factory).
under Smith they were forced do a "reduce" Hardware Testing program (like in contrast to SpaceX "rich" Hardware Testing)

This change in 2019 with arrival of propulsion engineer John Vilja
He bring the program back but found massive problem with engine
and had to redesigning turbopump assembly on BE-4

in mean time Smith piss off, ULA
By increasing the Price of BE-4 engines so ULA pay the additional R&D and Testing of engine !
to make matter worst, according anonymous source the first two BE-4 for ULA will be deliver in 2022 and NOT be fully tested and qualify !
what will piss off the Space Force with there harsh requirements and testing.

on Robert "Bob" H. Smith
has a Doctor of Philosophy in Aerospace Engineering from University of Texas at Austin in 1991
and a Master's, Business from Massachusetts Institute of Technology - Sloan School of Management in 1998.
Executive Director of the Space Shuttle Upgrades Development Program for United Space Alliance
then at the Aerospace Corporation where he served as a guidance, navigation and control analyst and a program manager
He was President of Mechanical Systems and Components at Honeywell Aerospace,
and Vice President and Chief Technology Officer at Honeywell Aerospace.

in short he is a manager not a innovator

More here

Blue Origin’s powerful BE-4 engine is more than four years late—here’s why

“This is a success oriented approach, but it could definitely backfire.”…

arstechnica.com

 

[MihoshiK]

From the Ministry of Propaganda at Blue Origin
This time on SpaceX

Apart from the fact that it's the assembly of the lander in orbit that has NASA worried about the National Team plan...

How do I know that BO is desperate?

Lying about the size of their package, is how I know

Not, you know, that SpaceX will let an astronaut actually climb that distance, they'll have an elevator. BO, however, is just fine with a 32 feet climb.

 

[TomcatViP]

Guys, the moon gravity being 1/7th that of earth, the terminal velocity at ground impact that would endure an Astronaut on the moon falling from 35 ft is 1/7th what you would endure on earth.

Roughly that would be as if you jump from a height of 5ft on earth....

To give a calibrated comparison, airliners need emergency slides on their exit only if the door threshold height is beyond 6ft.

*using a ratio of 7 and a height of 35ft simplified the problem

 

[dan_inbox]

Guys, the moon gravity being 1/7th that of earth, the terminal velocity at ground impact that would endure an Astronaut on the moon falling from 35 ft is 1/7th what you would endure on earth.

This is not correct. Velocity is not proportional to gravity, but to the square root of it.

(in maths terms, Gravity is an acceleration. Velocity is the integral of it)

 

[hagaricus]

So.. realising to my frustration that my physics is rusted away to nothing, I googled around and found https://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/581/FallingInExcel.html and by changing the value for G arrived at the conclusion that a drop of 9.75m on the moon would take a hair over 10 seconds with a velocity at impact of 10.45 m/s.

I'll leave it up to others to decide whether a suited astronaut would be comfortable with such a drop, providing, of course, that I didn't do something stupid with the spreadsheet.

 

[sferrin]

Now compare the risk of climbing down a 32' ladder, in a space suit, to riding an elevator to the ground.

 

[TomcatViP]

Guys, the moon gravity being 1/7th that of earth, the terminal velocity at ground impact that would endure an Astronaut on the moon falling from 35 ft is 1/7th what you would endure on earth.

This is not correct. Velocity is not proportional to gravity, but to the square root of it.

(in maths terms, Gravity is an acceleration. Velocity is the integral of it)

You are correct but you can quickly do that maths problem averaging the speed since initial speed is zero, the length of the fall is small and there is no atmospheric constraints to take into account (think polynomial curves and their tangents).

 

[sferrin]

Guys, the moon gravity being 1/7th that of earth, the terminal velocity at ground impact that would endure an Astronaut on the moon falling from 35 ft is 1/7th what you would endure on earth.

This is not correct. Velocity is not proportional to gravity, but to the square root of it.

(in maths terms, Gravity is an acceleration. Velocity is the integral of it)

You are correct but you can quickly do that maths problem averaging the speed since initial speed is zero, the length of the fall is small and there is no atmospheric constraints to take into account (think polynomial curves and their tangents).

Let's not forget, if you're FALLING off the ladder, you could just as easily land on your head, and who knows if you'll hit structure on the way down.

 

[TomcatViP]

I am pretty sure that any helmet visor can be made crash resistant at 25km/h (~18ft/s - speed of impact). Obviously the freezing temperatures of space is something that I am not taking into account.

 

[martinbayer]

So.. realising to my frustration that my physics is rusted away to nothing, I googled around and found https://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/581/FallingInExcel.html and by changing the value for G arrived at the conclusion that a drop of 9.75m on the moon would take a hair over 10 seconds with a velocity at impact of 10.45 m/s.

I'll leave it up to others to decide whether a suited astronaut would be comfortable with such a drop, providing, of course, that I didn't do something stupid with the spreadsheet.

Even if one might more or less safely be able to get down that way, there would remain the small problem of how to get back up again...

 

[sferrin]

I am pretty sure that any helmet visor can be made crash resistant at 25km/h (~18ft/s - speed of impact). Obviously the freezing temperatures of space is something that I am not taking into account.

What about the meat machine INSIDE the suit? Want to take an 18 ft/sec bounce off the top of your head? Me either.

 

[drejr]

Hopefully the meat machines are trained not to dive head-first from the top of the ladder.

 

[TomcatViP]

25km/h is 2/3rd the sprint speed of an athlete... Most of their meat should be OK

 

[sferrin]

Hopefully the meat machines are trained not to dive head-first from the top of the ladder.

Nobody plans to. That's why they call them, "accidents".

 

[drejr]

It would be quite a zany accident to fall from a ladder on the moon, tumble 180 degrees, and hit the top of your head.

Apollo astronauts had to jump several feet and grab the ladder, if you're falling you have plenty of time to grab a rung or rail assuming there isn't a safety lanyard of some kind.

The big advantage of the elevator is avoiding particulate contamination, the safety difference is probably negligible.

 

[sferrin]

Short of actually jumping off the ladder the likelihood of landing on your feet is going to be slim. The fall will induce rotation. As for "zany" you had astronauts literally trip over their own feet on flat ground. If you can do that you can fall off a ladder. Sure, they could secure them to the ladder with a harness (go OSHA) but that's one more thing to deal with as you're backing down that 30' ladder in an astronaut suit.