rousseau said:Here is a compitator of developing layout from Hawker P.1108 were supposed to be powered by four Avon engine.
zen said:AWA had the better design within the terms of the tender, EE had the most potential for a exportable fighter with the P6 and with the -D a very interesting concept, Saro gave a good effort and again much potential.
Naturaly Bristol won for reasons even now I'm not that clear on....but I have my suspicions.
Petrus said:rousseau said:Here is a compitator of developing layout from Hawker P.1108 were supposed to be powered by four Avon engine.
The P.1108 was to have four Rolls-Royce RB.115 engines. Indeed there is rather little information on the engines available, but I doubt they have anything to do with the Avon.
Piotr
rousseau said:Petrus said:The P.1108 was to have four Rolls-Royce RB.115 engines. Indeed there is rather little information on the engines available, but I doubt they have anything to do with the Avon.
Piotr
May I invite your source?
As Rolls-Royce had no suitable engine for a twin-powerplant configuration (...), the choice settled on a unit still on the drawing board, the small 20in (51cm) diameter RB.115. Four were placed in pairs under the inner wing.
The design [of the P.1108] featured no less than four RB.115 engines positioned under the inner wing (a preliminary design even featured six engines), and Rolls-Royce's John Fozard had great difficulty convincing Hawker taht the additional safety of four engines would be worth the direct trade-off against additional weight and complexity.
TinWing said:The Medway, a JT8D equivalent, was indeed based on the earlier Conway, which more or less was the equivalent of the contemporary JT3D. Of course, the Spey didn't exactly have a commercial competitor from P&W, at least not one that made it to production.
Petrus said:'Buccaneer. The Story of the Last All-British Strike Aicraft' by Tim Laming p. 12:
The design [of the P.1108] featured no less than four RB.115 engines positioned under the inner wing (a preliminary design even featured six engines), and Rolls-Royce's John Fozard had great difficulty convincing Hawker taht the additional safety of four engines would be worth the direct trade-off against additional weight and complexity.
Also the RB.115 designation appears in some drawings of the P.1108 - take a look at what's been attached.
Piotr
A model of a proposed development of the Buccaneer strike aircraft (which saw service initially with the Royal Navy and later the RAF) aimed at the Canadian Armed Forces. The B.109 was an unsolicited proposal made against a declared need for a new interceptor and strike aircraft. The aircraft was to be powered by two Rolls-Royce Avon RB.146 engines with reheat, to have a lengthened fuselage and non-folding wings with reduced outboard thickness : all of which combined to raise the top speed to Mach 1.65. The result was a good looking aircraft but the proposal aroused insufficient interest from the Canadians and no prototype was ever produced..
The model, which is in 1:48 scale and dates from 1959, is almost certainly a one-off, made in-house.
Which one?which could tell me something about the supersonic buccaneer?
B.108: Proposal for OR.339 (TSR.2); navigation radar, TFR, INS. Met all but the speed requirements.
D'OH !!
B. 129, later the P.140: Fighter version, Mach 1.8-2.0. Revitalized as a proposal for a Carrier aircraft in 1964. Rejected because there was no operational requirement, only for the role to be filled by the Spey Phantom a few months later.
D'OH !!
B.116: Spey powered B.103 offered to West Germany. They had earlier rejected the Gyron Junior powered design.
Yeah, "we have no need for a Phantom-like aircraft - oh look, a Phantom" is like something out of a Python skit.These two sentences by themselves speak volumes about British "missed opportunities".
Do you have any details and/or a source for that project?You forgot the P. 139 AEW variant but they aren't in Boot's book.
Chris
Agreed, all this Buccaneer fighter fixation is rather odd given it was a platform for low-altitude nuclear strike and very good at what it was designed for. It was not designed as an agile fighter and would of needed extensive redesign and why waste effort on that rather than a fresh sheet approach like the P.141?
This is a very handy list of Bucc variants, though I think there might be some more from Tony Buttler's BSP appendices too.
A Fighter variant of the Buccaneer only makes sense from the endurance point of view. Certainly potential for more than 2 hours CAP.
But the best fighter-like offering to NA.39 is still the Shorts PD.13.
With second place for fighter-like being the Westland offering.
View attachment 627643View attachment 627644
I built a P157 (HS1197-1) for The SIG stand at Scale Model World to coincide with Chris Gibson's Typhoon- Typhoon intended launch at the show.
Another reference for the type, along with Roy Boots,From Spitfire to Eurofighter
Another aircraft based upon the Air Defence Variant designed to meet AST.396. The blunt nose contains 26" diameter ball which itself contains a Laser Ranger and Marked Target Seeker (LRMTS) and FLIR. A Terrain-Following-Radar is carried in a fairing below the nose, whilst a LLLTV set (the Visual Augmentation System originally proposed for the ADV variant) is placed immediately forward of the windscreen in the upper nose.View attachment 627643View attachment 627644
I built a P157 (HS1197-1) for The SIG stand at Scale Model World to coincide with Chris Gibson's Typhoon- Typhoon intended launch at the show.
Another reference for the type, along with Roy Boots,From Spitfire to Eurofighter
What's the story with the blunt-nosed Tornado behind?
View attachment 627643View attachment 627644
I built a P157 (HS1197-1) for The SIG stand at Scale Model World to coincide with Chris Gibson's Typhoon- Typhoon intended launch at the show.
Another reference for the type, along with Roy Boots,From Spitfire to Eurofighter
What's the story with the blunt-nosed Tornado behind?
From Spitfire to Eurofighter by Roy Boot.
'In 1959 serious attempts had been made to sell the NA.39 in its original configuration to the West German Navy'
Does anyone know what the West German Navy thought of the design?
I know a certain story that could greatly benefit from this developmentThe same person I got the article from has also now posted a picture of a Buc on the deck of the Lady Lex. Enjoy.