Big Gemini

[Michel Van]

i looking for technical Reports of "BIG G"

all wat i found was this
http://www.astronautix.com/data/bigg67.pdf
http://www.astronautix.com/data/6907bgmf.pdf

strange the NASA ntrs server give "NO FILE FOUND"
on search "Big Gemini"

wat i looking is Technical Data like Propellants mass

 

[archipeppe]

Many thanks for this, already known, drawings about Big G.
Anyway I'm deeply involved in preparation of several drawing in order to assemble a presentation about this interesting (even if unrealized) project.

Stay tuned.....

 

[Archibald]

I'm tuned to death ! Thank you both, I really needed this thread...

 

[archipeppe]

As promised I enclose, as follows, a presentation about the Mc Donnell-Douglas Big Gemini spacecraft.

Enjoy it.....

 

[archipeppe]

More slides...

 

[archipeppe]

The last ones.

 

[Michel Van]

wonderfull
thanks archipeppe

 

[flateric]

Oh my! This is GREAT!

 

[starviking]

Sugoi!

 

[robunos]

XLNT!!! 8) ;D ;D

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Archi,

YOU ROCK, dude!!! ;D

 

[Brickmuppet]

My good sir.

You have kicked so much ass you have risked a internet wide ass shortage.

I had heard about "Big G' but the "Advanced Big Gemini" is intriguing.The service module has more working volume than the MOL station. What were the proposed applications for this one?

Also, the Saturn launcher, was it a C3 or C5?

Thanks again for the awesome pictures!

 

[Michel Van]

My good sir.

I had heard about "Big G' but the "Advanced Big Gemini" is intriguing.The service module has more working volume than the MOL station. What were the proposed applications for this one?

so far i know was "Advanced Big G" a USAF Version resupply big USAF station

or its possibly USAF want used it as "Super MOL" ?

Also, the Saturn launcher, was it a C3 or C5?

no

INT-20 is a Saturn IB replacement using Saturn V stage I-C and S-IVB, proposed in 1967

i wish they had taken Saturn INT-20 with Big G and not the Shuttle

 

[Archibald]

Wunderbar!

Never heard about Saturn INT-11 before. Another Titan strapons derivative of Saturn I suppose ?

By the way I share you opinion on Saturn INT-20 Michel.

According to the Astronautix Pdf, (re)moving the F-1 engines on the S-IC was a rather easy task.

With two F-1, you have 36 tons in low-earth-orbit... Ares 1 !
With four F-1, you have 133 tons in LEO... that's Ares 5.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4229.0;attach=49975;image

Would it be possible to put parachute and TPS on the cargo module to reuse it ?

 

[PMN1]

An alt history with no STS

http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=91794&highlight=Nixon+Shuttle

 

[Archibald]

It's mine ;D

A question. Could Saturn INT-20 been resurrected in 1971 ? (the project seem to be in the 1966-68 era).

Never noticed it before, but 9 man + 27 tons of cargo (when launched by a Saturn INT-20) is a performance equal to the Shuttle But the cargo module is expended after each flight.

Now imagine...

Reuse Big G cargo module and of course the crew module.

Then drop the S-IC into the sea and reuse it, too.

Now only the S-IVB is not reused... but it Saturn less expensive stage (and a good basis for a SSTO btw)

 

[robunos]

Then drop the S-IC into the sea and reuse it, too.

you mean like this?

'frontiers of space', bono/gatland, page 45

cheers,
Robin.

 

[robunos]

Now only the S-IVB is not reused...

and there were plans for that too... ;D

also from 'frontiers of space', pages 61 and 63.

cheers,
Robin.

 

[mz]

Need pretty hefty chutes. S-1C weighed 130 tonnes empty...

 

[Michel Van]

Need pretty hefty chutes. S-1C weighed 130 tonnes empty...

not a mission impossible ;D

one Shuttle SRB weight 86 tons and used three main chutes

The drogue parachute has a design load of approximately 315,000 pounds (143,000 kg)
and weighs approximately 1,200 pounds (544 kg).
Each of the 136-foot (41 m) diameter, 20-degree conical ribbon parachutes have a design load of approximately 195,000 pounds (88,500 kg) and each weighs approximately 2,180 pounds (989 kg).

3 to 4 of those chutes can hold also a S-IC

one idea was to catch S-IC from midair with gigant helicopter
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1545.0/highlight,hiller.html

a nother was to put wings on S-IC, to flight back to launch site
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2174.0.html

 

[Archibald]

That's it! I had heard about the study on Nasa's forum, but the pictures are new to me. Thank you very much!

 

[Barrington Bond]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... ;D

 

[Barrington Bond]

Just came across a folder of stuff I printed off of Astronautix.com back in 2001 before I had a computer at home. I looked through it and thought I'd double check to see if the stuff had been updated but strangely there was a lot I couldn't find (big site though it could be buried somewhere there?!) So I've scanned the images and here they are...


Regards,
Barry

 

[Pem Tech]

This is my first post to this forum, I just wanted to thank all the great folks that contribute their knowledge and images.
Special thanks to archipeppe, for the info on "Big G" as I am working on a flying model of said program.

 

[archipeppe]

This is my first post to this forum, I just wanted to thank all the great folks that contribute their knowledge and images.
Special thanks to archipeppe, for the info on "Big G" as I am working on a flying model of said program.

First of all welcome among us Pem Tech, I'm really eager to see the result of your work.....

 

[SAustin16]

Archipeppe,

Your presentation is outstanding. Did you create the graphics and cut-aways yourself?

I hope you don't mind, but I'm using your presentation, along with Mark Wade's information on Astronautix as the basis to create a 1:96 scale card model. I plan to pair it with my INT-05A 260" Monolithic SRB that's I'm almost done with.

Thank you for posting your information. It answered a lot of my questions about the structure and details.

 

[archipeppe]

Dear Saustin,

thanks for interest in my work!!
Of course I did by myself all the drawings and cutaways as well.

I'm glad to know about your model and I'm also eager to see asap your work!!

 

[Archibald]

Any idea of what internal atmosphere big Gemini had ?
5 psi and 100% oxygen, as Mercury - Gemini - Apollo - Skylab before it ?

 

[archipeppe]

Any idea of what internal atmosphere big Gemini had ?
5 psi and 100% oxygen, as Mercury - Gemini - Apollo - Skylab before it ?

Mmmmhhh

Let me check on my sources about it.
But I suppose, in principle, that BiG G has the same atmosphere composition of the actual Gemini spacecraft, low pressure pure oxygen.

Especially because in some drawings Apollo CSM and Big G are depicted docked togheter with the same space infrastructure (like AAP or MORL ones) w/o any docking interface (as ASTP Docking Module) to make "pressure interface".

 

[Archibald]

I've reached the same conclusion ;D
Seems that from Mercury to Skylab atmosphere was the same.
Out of curiosity, why did NASA shift to 14.7 psi (or sea level pressure, If I understood well) for the Shuttle ?
The ISS of course followed this move...
Was it because of the soviets had soyuz/ salyut at 15 psi, too ?

 

[Michel Van]

Seems that from Mercury to Skylab atmosphere was the same.

not quite
Skylab's atmosphere was 80% oxygen and 20% nitrogen at 5 psi
NASA Doctor were afraid that 100% damage the astronauts lungs over longer time periode

Source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo/Skylab_A7L

 

[OM]

...That first slide with the BG "Family Tree" begs for similar drawings for the original Mercury Mark II concept proposals.

Lowther? You got anything on this?

 

[Archibald]

http://books.google.fr/books?lr=&q=%22Big+Gemini%22%2Bappropriations&btnG=Chercher+des+livres

This is the result of a g**gle book search on Big Gemini.

Question: how do you access such documents... help needed...

 

[starviking]

http://books.google.fr/books?lr=&q=%22Big+Gemini%22%2Bappropriations&btnG=Chercher+des+livres

This is the result of a g**gle book search on Big Gemini.

Question: how do you access such documents... help needed...

If google books are only showing snippet views for them then you'll have to try a library. Maybe you could request copies from a central library?

As it's stuff from the US Congress your local Parliament (French?) may have records on microfiches. British Library might be worth a try too.

If that fails then direct contact with the Library of Congress is it.

 

[Archibald]

As it's stuff from the US Congress your local Parliament (French?) may have records on microfiches.

You learn something everyday

Thank you

 

[starviking]

As it's stuff from the US Congress your local Parliament (French?) may have records on microfiches.

You learn something everyday

Thank you

Happy to help. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Barrington Bond]

 

[Archibald]

nice pic but... what's the link with Big G ?

 

[archipeppe]

nice pic but... what's the link with Big G ?

Simple, all the modules attached are Big G cargo modules.
That one placed in the bottom, barely visible, has still a Big G re-entry module attached.... ;D

 

[Archibald]

Thank you very much.

Great find. Mind you, I'm currently writting an alt-history which plot is (basically) Big Gemini instead of the Shuttle, october 1971. Once the shuttle cancelled, Nixon still needs to save jobs in California for the 1972 election, so NASA has a space station late 1972. The said station: improved Skylab, augmented by... Big Gemini cargo modules.

Mind you, you'll make my dreams come true!! ;D ;D

Next (obvious) question: where does this pic come from ?

EDIT = I've answered my own question http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1969/PV1969_1062.pdf
(google search "Big G"+cargo-module")

EDIT 2 : looks like the Titan III-M variant - cylindrical cargo module.