Beyond the Spitfire - The Unseen Designs of R J Mitchell by Ralph Pegram

The book arrived a couple of days ago, I'm reading it.

Maybe I'm missing something but the 3d view for the project 313 isn't in the book?
 
Alcides said:
Maybe I'm missing something but the 3d view for the project 313 isn't in the book?
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Yes its there. CGI at the end of the colour section, 3-view drawings on page 172.
 
Father's Day is fast approaching so perhaps a copy of my book would make a good gift for your grey-haired old Dad, or get your kids to buy one for you ;) :D
 

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No it is a concept for a heavy bomber to spec. B.1/35 that was abandoned in favour of Vickers' Warwick. Some of the ideas were carried forward for the Type 316 bomber to spec. B12/36.
This is the Type 313
 

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Finnished the book at last...read some chapters two times :)

The book is very well produced , hardbound with color cover.

This is the best I ever have seen about the Supermarine early years. As told before ,the book have's three storys in
one cover. There is the detailed history of Supermarine from the early years upto the late 1939's
interwoven with the story of Reginald Mitchell and his designoffice , illustrated with drawings
and photo's of practical all the aircraft designed and constructed in the mentioned period.

The book is not an easy reader , but the 'work' is made confortable by the many brief chapters and subchapters.

Three views are plenty, often with additional sideviews of a basic type. There is a color section in the middle of the book
with excellent illustrations , a complete typelist at the end of the book, a ref. page and complete index.

This book is a goldmine for the flyingboat enthusiast, a must read for the historian and a worthwile addition for everyone's
aviationbook library.

My only minor critcism is that some of the 3-views are printed on a to small scale, but this can not be blamed to the author.
 
The pleasure was all mine..

Something about Folland projects in the pipeline ?
The series of articles in the Aviation Historian was a (very) good start !
 
Unfortunately I don't have sufficient new material to justify writing a whole book about Folland, which is why I wrote what I had as the articles for The Avation Historian. I think that Derek James' books Gloster aircraft since 1917 and Fighter Master Folland and the Gladiator tells much of the story of his time with Gloster and I know that another author is working on a book about his early career. Spirit of Hamble: Folland Aircraft, also by Derek James, is not too bad although Folland was no longer designing aircraft at that point.
 
"Unfortunately I don't have sufficient new material to justify writing a whole book"

That never stopped some folk.

Chris
 
Thanks for the information ,
I have the Putnam and 'The Spirit of.. ' on my booshelves.
So, the search for 'Fightermaster ..' is open . In the mean time
it's waiting for ' the other author' :)
 
Schneiderman said:
Unfortunately I don't have sufficient new material to justify writing a whole book about Folland, which is why I wrote what I had as the articles for The Avation Historian. I think that Derek James' books Gloster aircraft since 1917 and Fighter Master Folland and the Gladiator tells much of the story of his time with Gloster and I know that another author is working on a book about his early career. Spirit of Hamble: Folland Aircraft, also by Derek James, is not too bad although Folland was no longer designing aircraft at that point.
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I have career CVs for the nine senior Folland designers circa 1943 if that'd be of any interest to you? They're part of a government investigation into/assessment of the company at that time.
 
lark said:
In the mean time
it's waiting for ' the other author' :)
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I can't give the name unfortunately but he is a well-respected author with several books to his credit
 
newsdeskdan said:
I have career CVs for the nine senior Folland designers circa 1943 if that'd be of any interest to you? They're part of a government investigation into/assessment of the company at that time.
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Thanks, that could be useful. Is it just words or are there illustrations of past work?
 
No, that looks pretty interesting to me. Never forget that companies don't design and build aeroplanes, people do.
 
Yes, may be some interesting info. there. Already I see that Embley stayed at Supermarine longer than I had assumed
 
Thank you for that, its always interesting to track the movements of the second tier of aircraft designers through the industry, spreading expertise and ideas.
 
I thought it was interesting, given what happened later, how many of them had previously worked for Westland. The rest of the investigation into Folland reveals a company that's punching well above it's weight. In fact, the firm is in a fairly sorry state by the end of 1942.
 
That is something to note. When British Marine Aircraft collapsed Westland were initially in the frame to buy them out before it was refinanced and Folland came on board, the company then being renamed as Folland Aircraft. Perhaps some of that early interest inspired a few design staff to leave, working under Petter not always being a great deal of fun, apparently.
 
My dear Dan,

for Kay company,there was Kay 32/1 and 33/1,the first time to hear about 33/5 ,what
was it ?.
 
Those CVs are indeed very interesting and potentially quite useful.
I don't know how much research has been done into movement of people throughout the industry, it seems a few trends have been spotted from these few samples and it would be interesting if we were able to get a wider picture. It could potentially be quite useful, for as Overscan says, the people were behind the developments of the industry and its products.
 
hesham said:
My dear Dan,

for Kay company,there was Kay 32/1 and 33/1,the first time to hear about 33/5 ,what
was it ?.
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Sorry Hesham, I've done no research on Kay since my efforts have been directed elsewhere. Even with the Folland material, I was only really interested in what it could tell me about English Electric (not much, as it turns out).
Among all the oodles of material about F.6/42, comparisons of the Folland type with the other competitors, projected performance charts, spec lists, assessments etc. I noticed these CVs and thought they represented a snapshot of Folland at that time from which other details could perhaps be extrapolated. Earlier, Schneiderman said: "Unfortunately I don't have sufficient new material to justify writing a whole book about Folland". My goal here was to put forward new material that might possibly justify, if not writing a whole book about Folland, then perhaps at least thinking about writing one. What I have is presently of no use to me.
If nothing else was done but to insert photos or drawings of each type mentioned into those nine CVs you would have in hand the entire body of work and experiences that presumably influenced Folland designs such as the Fo 117. Maybe common design features or developed ideas might be apparent? Well I'd find it interesting anyway.
 
hesham said:
for Kay company,there was Kay 32/1 and 33/1,the first time to hear about 33/5 ,what
was it ?.
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Hesham, a previously unknown project I think. There are two clues in the CV, first that it had two engines and second that it was tendered, presumably to the Air Ministry. Unless this was a speculative project the only spec. that appears appropriate would be S.22/38 for an Experimental Rotating Wing Aircraft.
 
A little centenary history

One hundred years ago today, on 27th June 1916, The Supermarine Aviation Works Ltd was registered as a private company; restructured and reorganised from Pemberton-Billing Ltd after Billing sold his interest in the business when he entered Parliament.

The history of the company through R.J.Mitchell's tenure as Chief Engineer and Designer is in the book.

Thanks
 
I ordered my copy today. Perhaps it takes long time to get my copy in Japan. ;)
 
I guess it depends where you ordered it. The book was published in mid May for UK and Europe but not until sometime on October for the US.
 
blackkite said:
I ordered my copy today. Perhaps it takes long time to get my copy in Japan. ;)
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I don't know where you ordered but I started using http://www.bookdepository.com/ instead of Amazon on us because not only they don't charge me the shipment the book arrives early!!!
I live in Argentina ( South America) how a delivery from UK ( across Atlantic) is faster than one US I've not idea!!!
 
Just got my copy. Another great addition to the aviation engineering history library. Some very interesting stuff and very top notch in content and presentation.

Let the Whatifissance continue in its glory!
 
The publication date for Beyond the Spitfire in the US is 1st October but it looks like it may already be available from some dealers
 
Why was Type 178 used for so many different designs?

What weights and size was the 01 Civil Mail Carrier proposal?
 
I believe the number of concepts/projects in Type 178 reflects the slight hiatus within the company as Vickers took control of the business. Vickers did something similar with Type 153, which includes at least three different Vickers projects.

Only the basic layout drawings have survived for these Supermarine concepts and projects and they generally lack details on size and weight, unfortunately.
 
Schneiderman said:
Only the basic layout drawings have survived for these Supermarine concepts and projects and they generally lack details on size and weight, unfortunately.
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Pity as the mail carrier design does look quite interesting.
 
Finally finished reading this - excellent work - I don't think anyone's ever going to top it in terms of detail. Can we get a companion volume that consists entirely of Matt Painter renders of pre-war Supermarine flying boats?
 
Many thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
The original plan was for Matt to provide all of the rendered illustrations in the colour section of the book but work pressure meant he ran out of time and I had to step in and rush through a bunch of simplified versions of my own. They are well short of his standard but seem the stand up quite well in the book, so I'm quite chuffed. Having done that it encouraged me to keep on learning and have produced a number of new models, some of which will probably end up being published in time as they illustrate articles I have written for magazines. As for Matt, he certainly had some grand ideas for the book so it would be nice to see them completed and made available in some form.
 

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